Compact Diesel trucks that we can't get here

[3930dave]

Ze Germans are known for their conservatism. IMHO Ford and the rest of the big3 are really engaged in a marketing D*** measuring contest with those outrageous tow and horsepower figures. I wouldnt tow 12k behind my F150 regardless what the marketing types say.

A look at the comparison page on the Sprinter website shows the 3500 Sprinter with the 2.1l or 3.0l Diesel with a reasonable tow capacity of 7500lbs and the e350 with the 5.4l or 6.8l having 7400lbs. The 2015 Sprinter Van. Built to Work Smarter.

Looks like the Sprinter beats the e350 in towing slightly, and it does it with 1/2 as much engine.

Maybe we get more # in Canada ? 10,000 of 'em, per Ford.ca:

2014 Ford E-Series Wagon | View Full Specification Library | Ford.ca

Unibody vs. Full-frame - I'd expect a Sprinter to be lower for towing. Ever see a unibody Highway Tractor ?

Scooby is perfectly able to speak for himself..... that said, I'll put my 2 cents in, as I think we are drifting just a bit....... many of us in this thread look to these compact trucks as a daily runner, that can also comfortably tow 5 to 7k lbs.

Personally, if I'm heading towards 10k#+, I want a full-size platform, framed, with a long wheel-base.

Rgds, D.

 

[aczlan]

Ze Germans are known for their conservatism. IMHO Ford and the rest of the big3 are really engaged in a marketing D*** measuring contest with those outrageous tow and horsepower figures. I wouldnt tow 12k behind my F150 regardless what the marketing types say.

Thats the idea behind the SAE towing standards, to make them prove that their vehicles can safely tow that much.

A look at the comparison page on the Sprinter website shows the 3500 Sprinter with the 2.1l or 3.0l Diesel with a reasonable tow capacity of 7500lbs and the e350 with the 5.4l or 6.8l having 7400lbs. The 2015 Sprinter Van. Built to Work Smarter.

Hmmm, methinks that sprinter did some cherrypicking and messed up the numbers for the E250 and E350 with the V8 and V10 engines...
Page 19 of the 2014 Ford Towing guide shows the V10 variant of the E350 as being rated to tow 9100 with 3.73 gears or 10,000 with 4.10 gears (http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14FLRVTTgde_Sep9.pdf)
Also, their comparison wont let you pick an extended E350 and a LWB Sprinter (both are about the same length) at the same time.
The regular E350 should have trailer weights ranging from 7,400 to 10,000 pounds (depending on the engine and the gears) and the extended E350 should be rated between 7200 and 10,000 pounds (depending on the engine and the gears).
The regular E250 with the V8 should have a max trailer weight of 7,400 pounds and the extended E350 should be rated for a 7300 pound trailer.
Looks like Canadian specs qre a little different (E Series specs, Transit specs), but the sprinter site doesn't appear to match those either.

Looks like the Sprinter beats the e350 in towing slightly, and it does it with 1/2 as much engine.

Not really as the Sprinter has a turbodiesel vs a naturally aspirated gas engine in the Ford.

Aaron Z

 

[Scooby074]

Maybe we get more # in Canada ? 10,000 of 'em, per Ford.ca:

2014 Ford E-Series Wagon | View Full Specification Library | Ford.ca

Unibody vs. Full-frame - I'd expect a Sprinter to be lower for towing. Ever see a unibody Highway Tractor ?

Scooby is perfectly able to speak for himself..... that said, I'll put my 2 cents in, as I think we are drifting just a bit....... many of us in this thread look to these compact trucks as a daily runner, that can also comfortably tow 5 to 7k lbs.

Personally, if I'm heading towards 10k#+, I want a full-size platform, framed, with a long wheel-base.

Rgds, D.

Well.. Youre right. With the Max Tow package, 4.10s, and the V10, the E series can pull 10k. But if you look at this chart from Ford, thats a special case, most of the tow capacities are in the 7000 range.

Maybe MB was doing a bit of cherrypicking in their comparison... but ignoring the Towing Special, V10, isnt the worst thing to overlook considering its a one off.

You also got to ask, as you pointed out how often does anyone tow a full 10k? Most of us are in the 5 to 7k range as stated.

Unibody (with subframe) or not, I believe that Sprinter will meet its spec of 7500 towing or 6400 payload. Its 15250 GCWR beats all but the heaviest V10 speced e350, all with a 3 litre.

Again, it comes down to a question of "When if ever are you ever going to need 10K of towing?" Im more than willing to trade max towing that might get used once in 10 years for mileage I use every day.

 

[Scooby074]

Thats the idea behind the SAE towing standards, to make them prove that their vehicles can safely tow that much.

Hmmm, methinks that sprinter did some cherrypicking and messed up the numbers for the E250 and E350 with the V8 and V10 engines...
Page 19 of the 2014 Ford Towing guide shows the V10 variant of the E350 as being rated to tow 9100 with 3.73 gears or 10,000 with 4.10 gears (http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/14FLRVTTgde_Sep9.pdf)
Also, their comparison wont let you pick an extended E350 and a LWB Sprinter (both are about the same length) at the same time.
The regular E350 should have trailer weights ranging from 7,400 to 10,000 pounds (depending on the engine and the gears) and the extended E350 should be rated between 7200 and 10,000 pounds (depending on the engine and the gears).
The regular E250 with the V8 should have a max trailer weight of 7,400 pounds and the extended E350 should be rated for a 7300 pound trailer.
Looks like Canadian specs qre a little different (E Series specs, Transit specs), but the sprinter site doesn't appear to match those either.

Not really as the Sprinter has a turbodiesel vs a naturally aspirated gas engine in the Ford.

Aaron Z

The SAE standards cant come soon enough.

I agree after looking at the Ford site there may have been a bit of cherrypicking as covered in the post to Dave, but nothing like the Big3 engage in on a regular basis. then again maybe Fords numbers are exaggerated? Maybe Sprinter's are? Who knows until we get official standardized testing.

To be "fair", take Sprinter at 7500lb (from the Sprinter Ca. website) and compare that to the Ford capacities (From Ford Ca. website posted above). It more than stacks up.

For GCWR, as mentioned Sprinter beats all but the 4.10 V10s, while running a V6.

Yes its a TD, but its only 3l 188hp and 325ftlb vs the V10's 305hp and 420ftlb or the 5.4 255hp and 350ftlb. Sprinter is the underdog here no question and its more than holding its own.

 

[aczlan]

The SAE standards cant come soon enough.

Agreed. Per http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/Ford_Linc_15RVTTgde_Sep30.pdf the 2015 Transit meets the SAE standard.
Of note, the UK version of the Sprinter is only rated to tow 4400#.

Yes its a TD, but its only 3l 188hp and 325ftlb vs the V10's 305hp and 420ftlb or the 5.4 255hp and 350ftlb. Sprinter is the underdog here no question and its more than holding its own.

It should be interesting to see where things go if/when the Sprinter adopts the SAE standards.
As for the smaller engine keeping up with the larger ones, IMO, thats a function of the turbo and direct injection giving it more usable torque. The 3.6L Eco boost in the Transit is rated at 320 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque.

Aaron Z

 

[3930dave]

Again, it comes down to a question of "When if ever are you ever going to need 10K of towing?" Im more than willing to trade max towing that might get used once in 10 years for mileage I use every day.

For those of us (esp. with Canadian fuel pricing) that don't need a dual axle, dual wheel float to move our stuff around, that is a pretty good trade-off, and why this thread's class of truck is attractive.

Ford's EB gas motor has impressive specs, but as with any new technology, has had it's issues. Eric the Oracle had a succinct post in another thread that listed all his EB's issues, and the work-arounds he went with to address some of them.

I'm not picking on the EB (I am impressed with what it can do), I'm just a Show Me (long term data) guy with any new tech in general, esp. one that involves lots of my money. Clearly, some of the issues that I would be concerned about long-term on an EB engine are Don't Cares to somebody who buys a new truck every 2-4 years.

With DI, fuel dilution can be an issue. That's one of the reasons OTR heavy diesels get oil analysis done. A decent diesel motor oil can tolerate a fair amount of fuel dlilution. That's a relatively new issue in gas motors, and IMO makes it really critical that correct spec oil gets used in a DI gas motor - would I want to buy a vehicle with a DI gas motor that had been serviced by whatever quik lube had the cheapest price that day.....

Then there's the ethanol thing..... as I've said before..... I'd rather have a bit of diesel in the crankcase, than ethanol contaminated gasoline. Add to that - for a variety of reasons (not the least, govt tax revenues), ethanol content in gas is also likely to increase.

Those reasons, and that bio-diesel isn't really that hard to make yourself, are why I'm always interested in new diesel offerings in this market....

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

DI oil dilution is from failed high pressure pumps or slobbering damaged injectors . Not a combustion design problem.
How is a carburated engine or port injection engine that has fuel touching the cylinder walls, piston, head and valves during the intake and compression stroke not a problem? Yet a DI engine that doesn't even have gasoline in the combustion chamber until the very end of the compression stroke going to dilute oil with gasoline?

 

[3930dave]

DI oil dilution is from failed high pressure pumps or slobbering damaged injectors . Not a combustion design problem.
How is a carburated engine or port injection engine that has fuel touching the cylinder walls, piston, head and valves during the intake and compression stroke not a problem? Yet a DI engine that doesn't even have gasoline in the combustion chamber until the very end of the compression stroke going to dilute oil with gasoline?

Never said it was just a DI problem. As an example, some port-injected motorcycles are known for fuel dilution.

Spend time reading UOAs on bobistheoilguy. Either a sizeable # of people faked fuel-diluted oil problems, then paid to get UOAs done, or there is something to what I described.

Me personally, even it's 10% of the engines out there, I consider that significant. Some people don't, or don't care about this issue at all - I get that too.

Over time, there has been more pressure on engine manufacturers to reduce piston drag, and up rail pressures. Next, delete fuel filters - on top of that, most people just buy the cheapest gas they find. Not hard to imagine injectors acting up, under these conditions.

I'd much sooner risk dealing with diesel diluted oil, than today's gasoline as a contamination source.

Rgds, D.

 

[dfkrug]

The problem in the American market is that everybody thinks he needs a half ton pickup
weighing 2.5 ton, with 500kg load capacity in the bed. The half ton truck is the most inefficient means of
transportation in cargo weight vs. GVW.

Yes, I agreed with that. It is also true in much of Western Canada, BTW.

FedEX has taken to the Sprinters in a big way, apparently. Note that they have 4WD, and get around
much better than their competition when hills are involved.

As for more choices in the US, I suspect that a decent smaller cargo van, like you see so many of
in Europe, would do OK. Not just diesel, but 4x4 or RWD, so you can carry a load up hills. The
hottest gasoline minivans in the US are the Toyota Sienna and the Honda Odyssey. Why not
a stripped-down version of those, with only 2 seats, and 1000# less weight? AWD is already available.

 

[aczlan]

The hottest gasoline minivans in the US are the Toyota Sienna and the Honda Odyssey. Why not a stripped-down version of those, with only 2 seats, and 1000# less weight? AWD is already available.

I used to work for an electrician who had a Caravan that we used to haul supplies around. He had pulled the rear seats, it had shelves built against the walls, we put wire or fixtures in the middle and ladders on the roofrack.
Its amazing how much stuff would fit in that thing.

Aaron Z