Firewood processor build thread

[ajmaxham]

I just looked at your suction line photo again. Is the 3/4'' line a common rubber hose?? The suction line from Surplus Supply is wire reinforced to prevent line collapse. If your suction line were to collapse it could cause the engine to stall -- If hydraulic oil does no get to the pump nothing is going to work the way it should.

 

[kiotiken]

While sharpening on only one side would solve the bottom piece of the 4 way, if the top side jams, the round still jams. I'd do as Scooby says and try it before cutting it up and modifying. Cut an 8' chunk off one of the smaller logs and try it in the 2 way first and then the 6 way since it's further from the top than the 4 way is from the bottom. If Dave is right and it (Gasp!) folds in half, the you don't have to worry about modifying the splitter.

When you do get to firing it up and actually trying to run a log thru, if you need someone to hold the camera or second set of eyes/ears for creeks and groans, I'd be happy to come over.

PS, the technical stuff is sorted out for now for my dump wagon. Welding and fabwork to resume shortly......

Well, I agree, I will try first and take notes, but I'm 99.99% sure, it's going to jam. You're right about the top side jamming but what I'm thinking is bringing that cutting edge forward, even with the vertical edge. The main vertical edge is 6" wide, the cross edges are only 4 inches. I'm thinking of using that and even ripping a couple cross edges to 3".

Dave (the log guy) doesn't think it's going to fold, he thinks the verticles holding the cutting head will be ripped from the frame. We'll see. If you're up for holding the camera, I'd love it on one condition... NO laughing in the video!

 

[kiotiken]

I just looked at your suction line photo again. Is the 3/4'' line a common rubber hose?? The suction line from Surplus Supply is wire reinforced to prevent line collapse. If your suction line were to collapse it could cause the engine to stall -- If hydraulic oil does no get to the pump nothing is going to work the way it should.

Very interesting. Look back a couple pages and you'll see I mentioned the engine bogging down when I activate the small cylinder that controls the height of the cutting head. You have me wondering if it might be the hose collapsing. It is a rubber hose. This is exactly why I'm not going back to PA, I'm going to a real hydraulics supplier now.

 

[Scooby074]

Very interesting. Look back a couple pages and you'll see I mentioned the engine bogging down when I activate the small cylinder that controls the height of the cutting head. You have me wondering if it might be the hose collapsing. It is a rubber hose. This is exactly why I'm not going back to PA, I'm going to a real hydraulics supplier now.

Thats actually "hot water hose" but Ive used it as suction line without collapsing it before. One thing about it is it will soften with age in the presence of hot oil making it more prone to collapse. PA sells it as suction line, but take it with a grain of salt. That said, proper suction line is way better. This stuff from Parker is really good.

Its hard to beat a actual hydraulic shop. I got a good one local and they usually come in cheaper than PA. The recent quote I got for some hoses for the BX snowblower hyd conversion Im working on came in $30 cheaper than PA on a $200 order.

 

[woodchipper]

Any changes regarding your inlet hose size for the hydraulic pump? Starving at the pump will create problems at the spool valve, as they need their rated GPM flow to be able to work by design. Good pointers from Scooby074.
Don't despair Ken! It's all work in progress... You can already see the light at the end of the tunel!:thumbsup: What would be a project without some challenge?:fiery:!!

 

[kiotiken]

I'm going to a hydraulic shop on the way home tonight, so no, it hasn't been changed out yet. Yes, it's all a learning experience and yes, it's going to work out in the end. I'd love to get this thing working really well and then sell it. I've learned enough to know exactly how I'd build the next one. Not sure my wife would put up with that though!

 

[kiotiken]

THE GOOD

before/after


PA reduced the hose to 3/4", not really suction hose. It's now 1 1/2" Parker suction hose. Hydraulic shop says they would have used 1" return, but it should work.

THE BAD



OK, after fixing the hydraulics, I HAD to start it up. I was going to grab the video camera but got a little ahead of myself... Exactly as I predicted, it jammed against the back of the frame. Not only that, the part that made it through pressed down so hard on the back frame as it was pushed through, it took off all the paint.

This was a small piece of firewood that was already blocked, split and dry. I just wanted to see if it would split it again. Because it was jammed, the pump went into low pressure and the full force of the ram was used. It did manage to split it again...

Oh ya, one more weird thing, the pressure gauge reads 0 psi when the pump is in low pressure, maybe 500 when it's in high pressure. Not sure what's going on there.

THE UGLY



My biggest concern was the sled design and pusher plate would bind or not be strong enough to resist the upward forces. Well, it bound and I think it was because it couldn't resist the upward forces. It's hard to see in the picture, but the pusher plate is no longer level or true. It obviously pushed the ram up and to one side. The arms that are supposed to guild the pusher plate are twisted and bent very badly.

So, the end of this story is an epic fail (hey aren't you glad you didn't lend me the money to build it!) :thumbdown::hissyfit::fiery::duh:ullinghair::banghead:

Soooooooooooooooooooooo... I'm listening, taking suggestions and open to ideas. Here's my leading contender on how to fix this.

I'm going to cut out the cylinder mount, log trough and the back frame of the machine. I'm going to get a 10' ish 6" I beam and have the welding shop weld on a cylinder mount. I'll chop up the ram and re-use most of it but mount it in a more traditional manner to the I beam. What will continue to be a little different on mine will be the splitter head, I'm not going to change how I do it although I'm going to completely re-work it. I'm going to take it back to the welding shop, have them cut off the cross pieces, flip them and sharpen them so they will allow wood to pass straight through the center piece of the 6 way wedge. I'm also going to have them extend the frame of the cutting head so it's about 5" longer, more on that in a sec.

Next I'm going to cut the back of the processor frame off. I'm going to use much heavier steel and weld a cross member under the frame. That basically replaces what is there now but makes it heavier and drops it 3". I'm hoping that gives me enough room so I don't jam wood against the back of the processor. I'll tie the new cross member in properly, probably into the existing cross piece for the legs. I'll re-use the trough and rebuild it however it fits. Since the spittler head frame will be 5" longer, it will be supported by this new cross member.

Lastly, I'm throwing the sled idea away. I'm going to mount a hydraulic motor that will turn a chain connected to a series of rollers. I'll drill holes into the upper log trough frame and bolt pillow blocks onto the sides. It's 10' long, I think I'll add 6 rollers so they're spaced every 2'.

Well, that's the plan. When will it happen? hmmmm.... I'm not sure how long it's going to take. Winters set in, my side of the garage is a mess with salt and road muck. I guess I'm best to soldier through this but I'm kind of done with it now. OK, I'll stop whining and start working.

 

[Scooby074]

Not bad for a first attempt:thumbsup: Id say you are 80% successful.

I dont think Id go nuts cutting it up yet.

What I would do first is cut out the crossmember after the wedge. Id then make it into a sloppy U shape to drop it under where the wood is hitting it, sort of in the same shape as your trough.

The I beam idea isnt bad. Thats how mine is built. It keeps the main forces in line and helps to prevent tweeking, but its going to require a lot of work on your part. That said, your pusher/trough isnt that bad. You just need to work on your guides. Many of the euro processors have a trough and pusher like yours so it should be a workable design with some mods. Id make your pusher like an inverted T, where the horizontal part of the T is what runs in a guide groove. The vertical part is the pusher. Id also get rid of that long piece of square tube connecting the push plate to the cylinder and mount the cyl direct to the push plate. All that extra length in there is causing floppyness. Hard to describe, but if you watch this vid, it should be clear

Good choice on the supply line. Only thing Id do different would be put the valve as first thing off the tank, so if you have a leak (or need to repair) in the supply, you have a means to shut it off. The way it is now, if your supply hose gets ripped off by a log, your tank will dump.

Video to come.. soon as I find the one Im thinking of in my playlist

Found it. Around 25 sec in the vid below shows the pusher in a Palax quite well
http://youtu.be/fCbctWywxWQ

 

[kiotiken]

Not bad for a first attempt:thumbsup: Id say you are 80% successful.

I dont think Id go nuts cutting it up yet.

What I would do first is cut out the crossmember after the wedge. Id then make it into a sloppy U shape to drop it under where the wood is hitting it, sort of in the same shape as your trough.

The I beam idea isnt bad. Thats how mine is built. It keeps the main forces in line and helps to prevent tweeking, but its going to require a lot of work on your part. That said, your pusher/trough isnt that bad. You just need to work on your guides. Many of the euro processors have a trough and pusher like yours so it should be a workable design with some mods. Id make your pusher like an inverted T, where the horizontal part of the T is what runs in a guide groove. The vertical part is the pusher. Id also get rid of that long piece of square tube connecting the push plate to the cylinder and mount the cyl direct to the push plate. All that extra length in there is causing floppyness. Hard to describe, but if you watch this vid, it should be clear

Good choice on the supply line. Only thing Id do different would be put the valve as first thing off the tank, so if you have a leak (or need to repair) in the supply, you have a means to shut it off. The way it is now, if your supply hose gets ripped off by a log, your tank will dump.

Video to come.. soon as I find the one Im thinking of in my playlist

Found it. Around 25 sec in the vid below shows the pusher in a Palax quite well
http://youtu.be/fCbctWywxWQ

Thanks for the video. It actually illustrates that my redesign is the only way to do it. If you look closely, they have the bottom of that pusher tied into the bottom of the trough. There's is just a lot more refined and fancier, but the concept is the same, the pusher needs to be kept in line and the way I was trying it isn't even close to strong enough.

The bottom of my lower log trough has two 1" X 2" - .120 steel pieces to hold the sheet metal that makes up the bottom of the pan. My other idea is to cut a groove in the bottom of the trough and install a guide that uses those steel pieces. I would have used much bigger steel if I had designed them for it BUT, the members that make up the sides of the trough also attach to those pieces and then to the sides of the processor, so it may be strong enough. Wait a second... it just came to me to simply weld larger, stronger pieces under them to make sure it's strong enough. hmmmm....

I agree with the shut off valve, we actually started out that way but...

1) he didn't have a 90 deg elbow (he only had high pressure $70+) so I had to come straight off the tank, with the shut off there it would have come WAY out.

2) I was going to ditch the shut off all together but realized I needed to get the hose fitting (from 1.5" down to 1" to the pump) away from the relief valve with is right beside the inlet. So it served two purposes, as a shut off (and now I'm REALLY glad I have it) and as an extension to get away from the relief valve on the pump.

 

[kiotiken]

OK, I've finished my suck attack, I promise not to whine any more. I called the hydraulic store and he's working on finding a motor that will work to advance the logs in the trough. I'll need the motor, a flow restrictor, hoses and fittings but the valve is sitting there ready to go since this was always plan B. Looking at the price of flange bearings, this is going to get pricey, quickly, but I knew this set up would be, that's why I tried my original design, to keep it simple and inexpensive.

So, I'm not cutting it up as much. I'm going to add a groove down the middle of the lower log trough, add bigger, stronger, longer rails under the existing ones and have the ram tied into them. With this modification (that I should have started with), my sled design would probably work just fine. Doesn't matter, I'm ditching it and going with rollers. They may not be the best choice for everybody, but for me, all the wood that's delivered seems so straight, I think it will work well and be the easiest solution. I'm going down to 5 powered rollers though, I'm going to keep the sled (which is why I have to ditch the last powered roller), add an adjustable leg at the far end and have it stick 8' out the end of the processor. My logs are 16' +, this will allow me to process 20' logs no problem. I'll add non powered rollers and I'll be able to attach the sled and remove it as needed.

I'll also cut the back off the machines frame and I've figured out how to drop it 4". I'm doubling the frame all the way past the attachment point for the splitter cylinder. I'm also using heavier steel, that way, if the attachment point fails, I have something strong to work with. The modifications I'm making will be less work, but it will also mean I won't be able to move to an I beam as plan C, so I better make sure it works this time.

I'm working on a list of materials. I'll order them when I'm sure I have it all then I'll haul the processor back to the garage and start building again. I'll get back to posting pictures daily sometime this week and I make progress.