Grid-tied solar

[Jim Nelson]

Why Tesla's battery for your home should terrify utilities | The Verge

This article is a pretty good overview of the situation. No pricing info there.

One or two 10 kwh batteries at reasonable prices would probably get me off the grid. I average ~15-20 kwh per day usage, some of that (oven, washer, dryer) is very flexible, some (water heater, AC) is flexible to a point.

I need a gas generator to back-up the grid as it is, so a generator can also backup a solar+battery system at no extra cost.

Pretty interesting,the thing that makes me a little dubious is the Solar City connection because what I've seen of them out here is they want complete control. Rather than you own your system they want to own it and sell power to you for a discount price which is 40% off the power company price. Now that I understand the connection between Tesla and Solar City it makes sense.I wish he would say to heck with this other stuff and concentrate on batteries but I sure understand the money angle of his operation. I'm sure glad I bought my own system and hopefully the battery thing will happen.

 

[dave1949]

Pretty interesting,the thing that makes me a little dubious is the Solar City connection because what I've seen of them out here is they want complete control. Rather than you own your system they want to own it and sell power to you for a discount price which is 40% off the power company price. Now that I understand the connection between Tesla and Solar City it makes sense.I wish he would say to heck with this other stuff and concentrate on batteries but I sure understand the money angle of his operation. I'm sure glad I bought my own system and hopefully the battery thing will happen.

I think the best return comes from owning your own, but it is expensive upfront to do that. Solar City using your roof--which is basically an empty solar pv platform going to waste--and you get a discount on your electric bill. That is better than no solar pv and requires no upfront investment or maintenance/failure risk.

How Much Do Solar Panels Cost? - Solar Energy Cost | SolarCity

$0 down solar lease

It's a simple idea that changed the rules of the game so that everyone could play. Instead of paying thousands to buy a solar power system, homeowners can lease a system for $0 down and pay as they go.

In other words, we can put solar panels on your home at no cost. You simply pay for the power they produce every month at a lower rate than you pay now. The benefits of solar leasing are huge.

No upfront cost–You’ll need a good roof, but you won't need a lot of money to start.

Lower monthly energy bills–A lower energy rate and no upfront cost means you start saving right away.

Locked-in low rates–Utility costs tend to rise every year, but we let you lock in low, predictable solar energy rates for years.

20-year protection plan–We take care of all system repairs and insurance at no added cost.



Solar City is getting the renewable energy credits plus selling excess generation to the utility. I don't think it works very well in a state like Maine where the utility only banks excess kwh's generated to your account against future use. Maine electric suppliers never pay out for solar production. I don't think Solar City does residential systems in Maine. They might do large projects where they register as a true grid supplier/generator.

 

[Jim Nelson]

One of our neighbors looked at it and would have done it but they told him he had to replace his roof first,which was true, and I respect them for that, but it was a deal breaker for him. They are doing very well out here understandably but it would scare me knowing the power of the utility companies. I guess they are as safe as I am in that regard but I feel better owning my own.

 

[dave1949]

One of our neighbors looked at it and would have done it but they told him he had to replace his roof first,which was true, and I respect them for that, but it was a deal breaker for him. They are doing very well out here understandably but it would scare me knowing the power of the utility companies. I guess they are as safe as I am in that regard but I feel better owning my own.

I have no idea if Solar City has 20 year contracts with the various utilities to back up their arrangements with homeowners, seems doubtful and that would be a major weakness of the situation. Plus I think it is open to possible changes by the States' PUC over time. Twenty years is a long time in regulatory terms.

Overall, you have a homeowner, the utility, the PUC regulators, now add in someone leasing your system to you with their own agenda. Seems like the homeowner is likely to be low man on the totem pole in all that.

Elon Musk is no dummy, I hope he can deliver on the batteries. My guess is that he is betting on a regulatory direction that works in his favor for the storage/battery market while improving the production efficiency of the batteries to lower the costs at the same time. You have to figure he is planning his chess moves 5-10 years out.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have no idea if Solar City has 20 year contracts with the various utilities to back up their arrangements with homeowners, seems doubtful and that would be a major weakness of the situation. Plus I think it is open to possible changes by the States' PUC over time. Twenty years is a long time in regulatory terms.

Overall, you have a homeowner, the utility, the PUC regulators, now add in someone leasing your system to you with their own agenda. Seems like the homeowner is likely to be low man on the totem pole in all that.

Elon Musk is no dummy, I hope he can deliver on the batteries. My guess is that he is betting on a regulatory direction that works in his favor for the storage/battery market while improving the production efficiency of the batteries to lower the costs at the same time. You have to figure he is planning his chess moves 5-10 years out.

For years the utility has been saying costs continue to increase because generating capacity is maxed...

Now, that Solar is making inroads the Utility is saying they need to be compensated for infrastructure... no matter which way the wind blows or the sunshines... the homeowner is always low man...

 

[dave1949]

For years the utility has been saying costs continue to increase because generating capacity is maxed...

Now, that Solar is making inroads the Utility is saying they need to be compensated for infrastructure... no matter which way the wind blows or the sunshines... the homeowner is always low man...

And that may be a powerful motivation for people to exit the grid if and when price and convenience parity is achieved.

Off-grid you have equipment manufacturers, retailers and servicers of such, the usual consumer protection laws, and yourself.

 

[ultrarunner]

There is also city mandates that a home be connected to all available in place utilities as a condition of certificate of occupancy...

It can be very hard being an early adopter...

One of my friends is mostly off grid... they have a well and city water at only one of 3 adjoining properties occupied by family... water district wanted 25k hook-up for each home so they basically all use well water and have one water meter between them for backup...

I can see the same thing happening with solar... when you think about it... one 20 amp circuit can power the essentials of most homes... especially with LED lighting...

When the utilities were the only game in town... the sky was the limit... some have said the death spiral has begun as more home become efficient and alternative onsite generation becomes main stream...

Stock up on a couple heavy duty extension cords and commercial water hoses...

I manage apartments that have individual water meters... the water company now charges a $40 account fee plus 60 days of "Service" without a drop of water flow costs a minimum of $120...

For clean and show... I just run a garden hose for the few gallons needed with account holder permission and $10

The water company has become conniving in that they will not turn the service off when a tenant vacates and should "ANY" water usage show on the meter... it simply bills the owner full charges... this is why I have to turn off the main supply valve.

Had a home that was vacant better part of a year... owners were not sure if they were going to sell or rent... anyway... $21 of water flowed through the pipes when a toilet flapper got hung up... water company wanted $900 in back charges for $21 of water... told them to pull the meter because it was not going to happen... after a couple of weeks they offered to settle for one billing cycle and $21... not happy about it but $140 is better than $900.

It would be so simple if the water company simply turned off the service instead of leaving it on as a "Convenience"

 

[Redneck in training]

I think future of home energy storage will be ultra-capacitors. They have too low energy density per volume for cars but their larger size is not an issue for stationary use. They are cheaper than batteries, are not made from expensive materials but graphene or carbon nanotubes, can have virtually unlimited number of charge/discharge cycles and can be discharged to zero. Charge/discharge efficiency is above 95%.
Ultracapacitor Breakthrough May Recharge Energy Storage | EE Times
or Google
ultracapacitor solar energy storage

 

[houstonscott]

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2014/09/Tesla-gigafactory-rendering-001.jpg.650x0_q85_crop-smart.jpg This is supposedly under construction now.

Tesla is just about bankrupt. It's just about gone. Google Tesla bleeding through cash. HS

 

[Scooby074]

Tesla is just about bankrupt. It's just about gone. Google Tesla bleeding through cash. HS

Do you actually believe that? Got any evidence? Or are you trolling again?