NX4510 and NX5010 pricing and review

[TSO]

I wouldn't say no regrets. Higher purchase price means less cash to buy more or better implements. Bigger engine means more fuel always even though you'd likely need the extra HP only with some PTO tasks. Excess HP is wasted unless you buy bigger more expensive implements. Zero increase in hydraulic related power. Zero increase in loader capacity.

I don't have an NX but have never seen a task done by a DK50 that my DK40 couldn't do.

Extra few $K to start could allow purchase of a specialized or higher quality implement that could ultimately make a much bigger difference to work output than more HP.

And, don't forget the wasted fuel.

True, and there is validity there... However, using the same tractor with more HP will put less stress on the engine, and possibly use the same or less fuel because you won't have to run as high of RPM's for some of the tasks. If financed, there will be only a marginal increase in monthly cost (especially with the Kioti since their HP jumps are comparably cheap) and resale will likely also reflect the reality that there will be less of them (same frame higher HP) in circulation, and they should retain their value as well, if not better, than the machines with less HP. Then there's the reassurance of
Knowing that your chances of running low on HP are much less than going with less HP to begin with.

I'm not saying that a particular person that buys a machine with lower HP will automatically regret it later, but I think that most here would agree that the likelihood of someone regretting not having enough HP to begin with, would far outweigh those regretting getting too much HP.... In the same size tractor.

 

[GManBart]

I wouldn't say no regrets. Higher purchase price means less cash to buy more or better implements.

Extra few $K to start could allow purchase of a specialized or higher quality implement that could ultimately make a much bigger difference to work output than more HP.

Your argument makes assumptions about the purchaser's budget limitations that may not be there at all. The difference from an NX 4510 to the 6010 is only around $6K so it's not a huge jump, and the 5510 and 6010 have larger wheels and tires, which have some advantages.

I don't have an NX but have never seen a task done by a DK50 that my DK40 couldn't do.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen....that's sort of why they make machines with different horsepower levels. 5hp difference at the PTO isn't a big deal until you can't quite get the job done, or you get slowed down significantly, and then it matters a lot. TSO has mentioned wanting more PTO power for his Massey when he's used his stump grinder (going off memory)....and I'll bet 5hp more would solve that for him.

Bigger engine means more fuel always even though you'd likely need the extra HP only with some PTO tasks. Excess HP is wasted unless you buy bigger more expensive implements.

And, don't forget the wasted fuel.

This is one of those things that sounds logical, but can be very hard to prove in reality. People automatically assume higher horsepower engines burn more fuel at all times, but that isn't always true. In many cases the higher horsepower engine burns more fuel at all times because it has a larger displacement, so pumping losses are higher and larger components have more friction, parasitic losses, etc. In this case, the Kioti NX engines are all the same size....same pumping efficiency, same friction, etc. The higher horsepower models are tuned differently (injectors and turbo settings), but that isn't going to make a big difference in fuel efficiency to put out X amount of horsepower. If you put all four engines on a test stand, and set them for something like 35hp at the PTO, they're going to be using about the same amount of fuel. In practice, the larger horsepower models will use a touch more fuel because they will be making more power at PTO speed than the lower horsepower models....but it's not going to be a huge difference.

 

[IslandTractor]

Your argument makes assumptions about the purchaser's budget limitations that may not be there at all. The difference from an NX 4510 to the 6010 is only around $6K so it's not a huge jump, and the 5510 and 6010 have larger wheels and tires, which have some advantages. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen....that's sort of why they make machines with different horsepower levels. 5hp difference at the PTO isn't a big deal until you can't quite get the job done, or you get slowed down significantly, and then it matters a lot. TSO has mentioned wanting more PTO power for his Massey when he's used his stump grinder (going off memory)....and I'll bet 5hp more would solve that for him. This is one of those things that sounds logical, but can be very hard to prove in reality. People automatically assume higher horsepower engines burn more fuel at all times, but that isn't always true. In many cases the higher horsepower engine burns more fuel at all times because it has a larger displacement, so pumping losses are higher and larger components have more friction, parasitic losses, etc. In this case, the Kioti NX engines are all the same size....same pumping efficiency, same friction, etc. The higher horsepower models are tuned differently (injectors and turbo settings), but that isn't going to make a big difference in fuel efficiency to put out X amount of horsepower. If you put all four engines on a test stand, and set them for something like 35hp at the PTO, they're going to be using about the same amount of fuel. In practice, the larger horsepower models will use a touch more fuel because they will be making more power at PTO speed than the lower horsepower models....but it's not going to be a huge difference.

1) if the difference in price of $6000 is "justified" by bigger tires and different sized pistons, then anyone who does not have a very specific need for the extra 15hp is frankly a sucker for buying the NX6010. Kioti entry level tractors in each size are great values and highly capable. The uncharged higher horsepower versions are poor value in comparison to the base model.

2) Kioti is a marketing company and will squeeze every buck they can from a customer. They play games with higher horsepower engines that cost them about ten bucks extra to manufacture. If the engine is the same block and the peripherals are all the same, then the horsepower is just a marketing gimmick. They did the same thing with the DK series which I know well.

3) Horsepower junkies are easy prey for Barnum and Bailey marketing scams. A new sucker is born every minute.

4) someone pulling a four gang plow or haying or mowing with an eight or ten foot mower might well utilize 60hp regularly enough to justify the $6K premium. The rest are either naive victims or just drunk on horsepower.

5) if you really need 60hp regularly, you really should be looking at utility tractors not CUTs.

6) if budget is not a consideration, then buy JD or Kubota. Kioti is a value brand.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

1) if the difference in price of $6000 is "justified" by bigger tires and different sized pistons, then anyone who does not have a very specific need for the extra 15hp is frankly a sucker for buying the NX6010. Kioti entry level tractors in each size are great values and highly capable. The uncharged higher horsepower versions are poor value in comparison to the base model.

2) Kioti is a marketing company and will squeeze every buck they can from a customer. They play games with higher horsepower engines that cost them about ten bucks extra to manufacture. If the engine is the same block and the peripherals are all the same, then the horsepower is just a marketing gimmick. They did the same thing with the DK series which I know well.

3) Horsepower junkies are easy prey for Barnum and Bailey marketing scams. A new sucker is born every minute.

4) someone pulling a four gang plow or haying or mowing with an eight or ten foot mower might well utilize 60hp regularly enough to justify the $6K premium. The rest are either naive victims or just drunk on horsepower.

5) if you really need 60hp regularly, you really should be looking at utility tractors not CUTs.

6) if budget is not a consideration, then buy JD or Kubota. Kioti is a value brand.

I liked the Kioti cab better than either the Kubota L6060 or Deere 4066R. You're applying your own particular, singular opinion as though it is a universal and broadly applicable view without recognition that other people do not share your own motivations, perspectives, time frames, and expectations.

Last I heard Kioti was a tractor company, not marketing company. Kioti hires ad agencies, Kioti is not an ad agency. Kioti's NX series competes in the premium compact tractor space with Deer, Kubota, and Massey as the largest competitors. Currently Kioti is attempting a land grab in the compact tractor, lifestyle market and is second to Kubota in total compact tractor sales in North America.

I never priced out the 45hp version of the NX because I was shopping for a 60ish hp tractor because I knew I would be using 3PT equipment that required at least 60hp. Here is what I use 60 hp for. When I start digging foundations out, it'll become even more obvious why I was willing to pay extra for more power while retaining the easy to use HST transmission.

 

[IslandTractor]

I liked the Kioti cab better than either the Kubota L6060 or Deere 4066R. You're applying your own particular, singular opinion as though it is a universal and broadly applicable view without recognition that other people do not share your own motivations, perspectives, time frames, and expectations. Last I heard Kioti was a tractor company, not marketing company. Kioti hires ad agencies, Kioti is not an ad agency. Kioti's NX series competes in the premium compact tractor space with Deer, Kubota, and Massey as the largest competitors. Currently Kioti is attempting a land grab in the compact tractor, lifestyle market and is second to Kubota in total compact tractor sales in North America. I never priced out the 45hp version of the NX because I was shopping for a 60ish hp tractor because I knew I would be using 3PT equipment that required at least 60hp. Here is what I use 60 hp for. When I start digging foundations out, it'll become even more obvious why I was willing to pay extra for more power while retaining the easy to use HST transmission. YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZg7LFy2VpY

Daedong is a tractor manufacturer. Kioti is a brand name and Kioti USA is for all intents pretty much a marketing company. Sure they sell parts and manage warranties and mismanage dealers too so perhaps they are more than a simple marketing company but you will find more marketing types than engineers on the Kioti USA payroll. My main point is that an absurd $6000 up charge for different pistons is evidence that the horsepower thing is marketing BS. The 45 and 60 hp versions differ very little for the vast majority of tasks CUT owners do. It's like the up charge for a King Ranch F150 over the XT but they don't even throw in leather. The base tractor is highly capable. You better have a dam good reason to shovel an extra six grand into their hopper. Tractors are not designed to dig out foundations. A mini excavator will work circles around a CUT in that arena and can be rented when needed. Size a tractor for what you typically do, not for extreme projects. I have been a very happy Kioti owner for almost ten years. They produce a fine commodity tractor that provides great value at the base level of each frame size. They have come up with schemes to squeeze extra money from people who are impressed with horsepower. If you really need it fine but I suspect most who pay for the upgrade have not done a careful analysis of their needs. Statements like "you can never have enough HP" are just juvenile and frankly dumb. Luckily for Kioti there are a lot of folks happy to think that bigger pistons are worth $6000 and that somehow $6000 isn't really 6000 if you break it down to monthly payments. And no, you won't recoup the $6K when you sell used.

 

[GManBart]

1) if the difference in price of $6000 is "justified" by bigger tires and different sized pistons, then anyone who does not have a very specific need for the extra 15hp is frankly a sucker for buying the NX6010. Kioti entry level tractors in each size are great values and highly capable. The uncharged higher horsepower versions are poor value in comparison to the base model.

2) Kioti is a marketing company and will squeeze every buck they can from a customer. They play games with higher horsepower engines that cost them about ten bucks extra to manufacture. If the engine is the same block and the peripherals are all the same, then the horsepower is just a marketing gimmick. They did the same thing with the DK series which I know well.

3) Horsepower junkies are easy prey for Barnum and Bailey marketing scams. A new sucker is born every minute.

4) someone pulling a four gang plow or haying or mowing with an eight or ten foot mower might well utilize 60hp regularly enough to justify the $6K premium. The rest are either naive victims or just drunk on horsepower.

5) if you really need 60hp regularly, you really should be looking at utility tractors not CUTs.

6) if budget is not a consideration, then buy JD or Kubota. Kioti is a value brand.

Okay, since you didn't reply with any facts, I'm going to translate your reply for everybody else. You don't need more than 40hp, so nobody else might have a reasonable need for it either. Got it...thanks!

I'm not sure if you read the entire thread or not, but I'm the OP. One of my criteria, which you seem to have missed, was that I planned to use the same implements on the Kioti (if I bought one) as on my Massey. My Massey has 45hp at the PTO, so it was going to have to be either the 5510 or 6010 to keep it in the ballpark. I wanted to be able to run as big an implement as possible, as fast as possible with both machines. If I tried that with a 4510 and it's whopping 33.9hp, it wasn't going to work out very well. That's worth the $3K difference it would have cost to go from the 4510 to the 5510...at least it would have been to me.

I decided to go much bigger, for now, but when I get all the big stuff done, I'll probably sell it, and go back to the biggest CUT with HST that I can afford without breaking the bank.

BTW, it's actually only $4,500 to go from a 4510 to a 6010 at the local prices...$29,500 for a 4510 and $34K for a 6010.

 

[IslandTractor]

Okay, since you didn't reply with any facts, I'm going to translate your reply for everybody else. You don't need more than 40hp, so nobody else might have a reasonable need for it either. Got it...thanks!

You can't read. I gave several reasons/examples why more HP might be needed. However, the number of buyers who actually use those implements or others regularly are small. Most just waste money and fuel.

 

[GManBart]

I have been a very happy Kioti owner for almost ten years. They produce a fine commodity tractor that provides great value at the base level of each frame size. They have come up with schemes to squeeze extra money from people who are impressed with horsepower. If you really need it fine but I suspect most who pay for the upgrade have not done a careful analysis of their needs. Statements like "you can never have enough HP" are just juvenile and frankly dumb. Luckily for Kioti there are a lot of folks happy to think that bigger pistons are worth $6000 and that somehow $6000 isn't really 6000 if you break it down to monthly payments. And no, you won't recoup the $6K when you sell used.

First off, it's really only $4,500 difference...approximately $1,500 per 5hp step, which is very reasonable compared to most manufacturers.

Some people don't want to get by with just the base level power, and might want to run bigger implements....that requires horsepower. If you don't want it, great...you didn't pay for it, and you can slug along going slower, and pulling smaller all you want, but suggesting more power is always a waste is, to use your terms, frankly dumb.

I already pointed out an example of TSO with his 1648...it has 36.5hp at the PTO, and he says that really isn't enough for running his stump grinder, which he does pretty regularly (season, I'm sure). Your DK40SE has 4hp less at the PTO, so it would really struggle running that same stump grinder.

For me, and some others, time is money....I can make more money, but I can't make more time. If paying a couple of grand more will let me go up one size in implements, and that saves me time that I can be doing other stuff, I'm happy to pay it. I enjoy running my machines, but most of the time I'm trying to get done as fast as possible while doing a good job and being safe. Then again, that's why I went way bigger and didn't buy the Kioti.

So you really don't think you'll get more of your purchase price back when you sell a machine with more power? That's pretty silly. If you go to sell your DK40SE, and somebody else lists an otherwise identical DK45SE, they're going to get more money for it...plain and simple.

 

[GManBart]

You can't read. I gave several reasons/examples why more HP might be needed. However, the number of buyers who actually use those implements or others regularly are small. Most just waste money and fuel.

Oh, I wasn't aware you had national statistics on what people bought, and the exact ways they were using them. You're guessing.

Again, because you don't need it, most other people don't need it either....I think we all get that now.

You can't read. I've already pointed out why your "waste fuel" argument is simply wrong....same engine dimensions (yes including pistons which you seem to be unaware of), same pumping losses, same fuel used for the same amount of power output...or so close it would be hard to measure.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Daedong is a tractor manufacturer. Kioti is a brand name and Kioti USA is for all intents pretty much a marketing company. Sure they sell parts and manage warranties and mismanage dealers too so perhaps they are more than a simple marketing company but you will find more marketing types than engineers on the Kioti USA payroll. My main point is that an absurd $6000 up charge for different pistons is evidence that the horsepower thing is marketing BS. The 45 and 60 hp versions differ very little for the vast majority of tasks CUT owners do. It's like the up charge for a King Ranch F150 over the XT but they don't even throw in leather. The base tractor is highly capable. You better have a dam good reason to shovel an extra six grand into their hopper. Tractors are not designed to dig out foundations. A mini excavator will work circles around a CUT in that arena and can be rented when needed. Size a tractor for what you typically do, not for extreme projects. I have been a very happy Kioti owner for almost ten years. They produce a fine commodity tractor that provides great value at the base level of each frame size. They have come up with schemes to squeeze extra money from people who are impressed with horsepower. If you really need it fine but I suspect most who pay for the upgrade have not done a careful analysis of their needs. Statements like "you can never have enough HP" are just juvenile and frankly dumb. Luckily for Kioti there are a lot of folks happy to think that bigger pistons are worth $6000 and that somehow $6000 isn't really 6000 if you break it down to monthly payments. And no, you won't recoup the $6K when you sell used.

That's like saying Massey is a marketing company because AGCO owns Massey. You're going to stick with that assertion and ride it home? Really?

This discussion with you is like the fellow I met who said buying new is a waste of money, that we should always buy used.

I'm not that guy, just as I'm not you.

Get it?

Not you.

Other people are not you.

Get it?

They are not you.

We have different views than you do.

Get it?

Different views.

Some of us want more hp for reasons we don't need to justify to you.

Get it?

Reasons that don't need to be justified to you.

All said, I suspect your views are in the minority and i think we should move on and get back to being enthusiasts.