NX4510 and NX5010 pricing and review

94BULLITT · Mar 1, 2015

TSO said:
Hmmmm... Lol so you're saying that no one in the world could possible need more power in a CUT than your L4240 has !?

Have you read any of my posts in this thread, specifically pertaining to my uses?

I originally said I don't see much need for a 60hp cut. I'm saying for most uses it does not make sense to have a 60HP CUT. I know there are some tasks where more power could be needed in a CUT.

I have not read your thread. I have heard you say you wish you had more power for your stump grinder. Out of all the attachments listed in your signature the only one I see you need more power is for your 8' rotary cutter. I've never ran a stump grinder on a tractor so IDK about that.

TSO · Mar 1, 2015

94BULLITT said:
I originally said I don't see much need for a 60hp cut. I'm saying for most uses it does not make sense to have a 60HP CUT. I know there are some tasks where more power could be needed in a CUT.

I have not read your thread. I have heard you say you wish you had more power for your stump grinder. Out of all the attachments listed in your signature the only one I see you need more power is for your 8' rotary cutter. I've never ran a stump grinder on a tractor so IDK about that.

Ah ok ... Well take my word for it then, I grind a lot of stumps!

94BULLITT · Mar 1, 2015

EricTheOracle said:
Island, the NX6010 is Cat2, allowing people to use heavier implements. Using your logic, nobody should buy 60 skip loaders, or 60hp skid loaders. That extra 15hp is completely worthless.

A 45hp machine couldn't use my rotary cutter and I think it would be hard-pressed trying to use my 84" industrial box scraper. With ballast, my 4600 pound NX6010 weights 5900 pounds. Add another 1100 pounds for a loader, another 400-500 pounds for a bucket or grapple, and the machine is 7400-7500 pounds before attaching anything at the rear. Add another 1200+ pounds for an industrial box scraper and you want to drag 8800 pounds around with 45 hp, huh?

Life is too short waiting for you to get done doing that.

And while we're at it, you go get an F250, my F150 is fine.

A 45hp tractor would handle your rotary cutter fine.

HP does not have that much to do with handling a ground engaging implement like your box blade. You need weight and traction. It is not like you need to be able to drag the box blade 12MPH with a full load. Most box blading is going to be done at a low speed.

94BULLITT · Mar 1, 2015

TSO said:
Ah ok ... Well take my word for it then, I grind a lot of stumps!

I know on something like a stump grinder more power is going to let you grind the stumps faster. I can also see since you are doing it with a tractor that a 60hp CUT would be nice for you to get around peoples yards. I know there are some exceptions but most of the time it makes more sense, at least to me, to step up to a utility tractor if extra power is needed.

kapper · Mar 1, 2015

IslandTractor said:
Of course. But the bigger point is that stuffing 60hp into a CUT frame starts to do weird things to efficiency. At some point people should just increase frame size. I think the F150/F250 analogy is appropriate here. You don't gain much utility by stuffing more and more HP into an F150. There comes a time to bite the bullet and upgrade to a F250 or alternatively just live with the occasional limitation of the F150. I understand the HST argument but I don't think those of you who are continuing to argue for 60hp in a CUT are seeing the forest for the trees. Five years ago there were no 60hp CUTs. People just bought utility tractors once they needed that much power. There are huge advantages to a 60hp utility tractor over a 60hp CUT. Basically the utility tractor would out perform in all areas except 1) availability of HST and 2) trailering. If you really must have HST and small frame size then by all means shoot the CUT up with steroids. But the majority of tractor buyers would be better served by a either 45hp CUT or a 60hp utility tractor.

Ummm, yes, stuffing a 60 hp engine in a CUT does have some excellent uses.. You get much more usage while still being in the same frame/footprint. In other words you Can do more while maintaining the agility of a CUT. Five years ago, the CUT's could not accomplish what today's tractors can.. This is the result of increased technology, and in many cases increased available power. IF you look at all of the new 3 pt/pto implements, and skid steer attachments coming out today, there is no way that an underpowered CUT would perform at an acceptable level with some of these new options. Don't get me wrong here, if someone just wants to do the basic farm chores; mow some grass, till a few small areas and maybe grade a driveway then absolutely, the 40 hp will perform admirably. But, please, until you've actually encountered situations (as I personally have) when the 40 just would not cut it, but a 60 would, then you are simply making conjecture on your assertions that one cannot do more with a 60 than with the 45. How about we each just stick to sharing our actual experiences so that those who are looking for some real background on making their decisions can take each for what they are worth? There really is no right or wrong here, as it is obvious that if they didn't sell any of the 50, 55 or 60 hp CUT's, they sure wouldn't keep making them... Thanks.

IslandTractor · Mar 1, 2015

EricTheOracle said:
Island, the NX6010 is Cat2, allowing people to use heavier implements. Using your logic, nobody should buy 60 skip loaders, or 60hp skid loaders. That extra 15hp is completely worthless.

A 45hp machine couldn't use my rotary cutter and I think it would be hard-pressed trying to use my 84" industrial box scraper. With ballast, my 4600 pound NX6010 weights 5900 pounds. Add another 1100 pounds for a loader, another 400-500 pounds for a bucket or grapple, and the machine is 7400-7500 pounds before attaching anything at the rear. Add another 1200+ pounds for an industrial box scraper and you want to drag 8800 pounds around with 45 hp, huh?

Life is too short waiting for you to get done doing that.

And while we're at it, you go get an F250, my F150 is fine.

What makes you think a NX4510 couldn't run a Woods BB720??? They absolutely can handle that mower. I happen to have a BB600 on my DK40se only because it was a great deal on CL and I already have a 75" flail mower. I don't even bother to use full PTO speed and I use the BB600 only for heavy bush hogging when I don't want to use the flail in rocky areas. I use a six foot box scraper and have no issue. I could use bigger if I need but I don't. As for how much weight I can carry around, let me remind you that the 3PT lift for the DK40se is just about the same as for theNX4510 which is identical to the NX6010. I carry around large logs in the grapple using my Woods BH90x as ballast all the time. Same size axles as you have. Essentially same hydraulics. Identical loader.

I'm wondering now if those of you who drank the Kioti HP kool aid did your homework before purchase. I know that sounds a bit snarky but really, how did you determine that you needed 60hp? Did your dealer just upsell or was there a calculation involved?

IslandTractor · Mar 1, 2015

kapper said:
Ummm, yes, stuffing a 60 hp engine in a CUT does have some excellent uses.. You get much more usage while still being in the same frame/footprint. In other words you Can do more while maintaining the agility of a CUT. Five years ago, the CUT's could not accomplish what today's tractors can.. This is the result of increased technology, and in many cases increased available power. IF you look at all of the new 3 pt/pto implements, and skid steer attachments coming out today, there is no way that an underpowered CUT would perform at an acceptable level with some of these new options. Don't get me wrong here, if someone just wants to do the basic farm chores; mow some grass, till a few small areas and maybe grade a driveway then absolutely, the 40 hp will perform admirably. But, please, until you've actually encountered situations (as I personally have) when the 40 just would not cut it, but a 60 would, then you are simply making conjecture on your assertions that one cannot do more with a 60 than with the 45. How about we each just stick to sharing our actual experiences so that those who are looking for some real background on making their decisions can take each for what they are worth? There really is no right or wrong here, as it is obvious that if they didn't sell any of the 50, 55 or 60 hp CUT's, they sure wouldn't keep making them... Thanks.

On what basis do you say there are "new options" that require 60hp? The vast vast majority of CUT implements are six foot and can be run by any cut of 40hp or more. I cannot think of a single implement other than a batwing mower or 8ft bush hog mower that requires more than 40hp to run efficiently. TSO may have a large stump grinder for commercial use and that may justify more HP but there are other stump grinders that max out at 35hp so it isn't like there is some magic barrier you have to cross with higher HP. It would be silly of implement manufacturers to make 3PT implements aimed at the CUT market that require more than 45hp to run. The vast majority of the market is below 50hp.

Maybe the 3000 series JD is smaller frame than the Kioti DK/NX and is less capable. I've never operated a JD3000 series machine but if they are built like the Kubotas then they are generally lighter with less capable loaders and smaller axles than the Kiotis. If the JDs are optimized for finish mowing then it is hard to compare equal horsepower machines. I'd say comparing tractor weight which is more closely linked to frame size might be more accurate. I know the DK class compares favorably to the <50 HP MX Kubotas specs.

TSO · Mar 1, 2015

IslandTractor said:
What makes you think a NX4510 couldn't run a Woods BB720??? They absolutely can handle that mower. I happen to have a BB600 on my DK40se only because it was a great deal on CL and I already have a 75" flail mower. I don't even bother to use full PTO speed and I use the BB600 only for heavy bush hogging when I don't want to use the flail in rocky areas. I use a six foot box scraper and have no issue. I could use bigger if I need but I don't. As for how much weight I can carry around, let me remind you that the 3PT lift for the DK40se is just about the same as for theNX4510 which is identical to the NX6010. I carry around large logs in the grapple using my Woods BH90x as ballast all the time. Same size axles as you have. Essentially same hydraulics. Identical loader.

I'm wondering now if those of you who drank the Kioti HP kool aid did your homework before purchase. I know that sounds a bit snarky but really, how did you determine that you needed 60hp? Did your dealer just upsell or was there a calculation involved?

I'm only quoting this to say, I think they increased the 3pt lift on the NX series over the DK series by a respectable amount... It's close to the other top rigs now. Just FYI

peterc38 · Mar 1, 2015

This thread needs one of those popcorn munching emoticon thingies.

TSO · Mar 1, 2015

IslandTractor said:
. I know the DK class compares favorably to the <50 HP MX Kubotas specs.

So does the Massey, but better ...

Don't forget too, some people also hay with their CUT'S, and that is another reason for higher HP.

94BULLITT · Mar 1, 2015

TSO said:
So does the Massey, but better ...

Don't forget too, some people also hay with their CUT'S, and that is another reason for higher HP.

I was thinking about that too but again why not step up to a utility.

Snow blowing is something else that requires a lot of power but a big tractor can do that too.

94BULLITT · Mar 1, 2015

peterc38 said:
This thread needs one of those popcorn munching emoticon thingies.

Here

TSO · Mar 1, 2015

94BULLITT said:
I was thinking about that too but again why not step up to a utility.

Snow blowing is something else that requires a lot of power but a big tractor can do that too.

I think that for a lot of people, having one "do it all" tractor is the option they choose. No tractor is perfect for everything, but having a 60 HP HST CUT is about the best choice to cover all if your potential needs, if you have small acreage like 30 or less.

IslandTractor · Mar 1, 2015

TSO said:
I'm only quoting this to say, I think they increased the 3pt lift on the NX series over the DK series by a respectable amount... It's close to the other top rigs now. Just FYI

I'm aware it is higher but remember we are mostly discussing the NX4510 which has the exact same rating as the NX6010. Very few implements are more than 2500lbs anyways so I don't think 3PT lift is limiting any DK or NX owner.

MinnesotaEric · Mar 1, 2015

IslandTractor said:
What makes you think a NX4510 couldn't run a Woods BB720??? They absolutely can handle that mower. I happen to have a BB600 on my DK40se only because it was a great deal on CL and I already have a 75" flail mower. I don't even bother to use full PTO speed and I use the BB600 only for heavy bush hogging when I don't want to use the flail in rocky areas. I use a six foot box scraper and have no issue. I could use bigger if I need but I don't. As for how much weight I can carry around, let me remind you that the 3PT lift for the DK40se is just about the same as for theNX4510 which is identical to the NX6010. I carry around large logs in the grapple using my Woods BH90x as ballast all the time. Same size axles as you have. Essentially same hydraulics. Identical loader.

I'm wondering now if those of you who drank the Kioti HP kool aid did your homework before purchase. I know that sounds a bit snarky but really, how did you determine that you needed 60hp? Did your dealer just upsell or was there a calculation involved?

How did I determine my hp requirements? I used the three bears method in light of the minimum and maximum PTO hp requirements of the implements I planned to use as well as the size of the snow plow I needed to clear two miles of road. Also, I considered the travel speed of the tractor.

IslandTractor · Mar 1, 2015

TSO said:
I think that for a lot of people, having one "do it all" tractor is the option they choose. No tractor is perfect for everything, but having a 60 HP HST CUT is about the best choice to cover all if your potential needs, if you have small acreage like 30 or less.

I do just fine with a 41hp managing about 20 acres without strain and wouldn't blink to choose the NX4510 for that size plot. One possible exception would be if it were all pasture and required regular mowing. In that case I'd get a batwing and then ponder what size tractor I needed to mow with it.

IslandTractor · Mar 1, 2015

EricTheOracle said:
How did I determine my hp requirements? I used the three bears method in light of the minimum and maximum PTO hp requirements of the implements I planned to use as well as the size of the snow plow I needed to clear two miles of road. Also, I considered the travel speed of the tractor.

I'm gonna translate that as "wild azz guess". Not being disrespectful, I know your basic approach was logical but it really wasn't data or experience driven. PTO requirements listed by manufacturers are typically simply a regurgitation of the gearbox limits. There is absolutely no question for example that the NX4510 can run the BB720 efficiently. Box blade capacity is more limited by traction than horsepower and I can spin my wheels pretty easily in dry or wet conditions. Snow plow as in plow is likely to be another traction issue. Snow plow as in blower is indeed a HP issue but a six foot blower is certainly fine for 40hp. Unless you want wider than 12ft that is still just one up and back run. Travel speed I haven't checked and I know that the 6010 has bigger rears so maybe has a couple mph on the smaller version. On a highway that might make a bit of difference. I cannot ever travel at close to top speed on my DK on pasture or farm roads. Way too bumpy.

I know you are planning to do foundation work. Wouldn't either a BH attachment or simply renting a mini excavator make more sense than trying to dig out a foundation with a box blade and loader??? The money saved on the 15hp and ultra box blade would take you pretty close to a nice backhoe. Or, you could rent a mini excavator for a week and have beer money for life.

MinnesotaEric · Mar 1, 2015

IslandTractor said:
I'm gonna translate that as "wild azz guess". Not being disrespectful, I know your basic approach was logical but it really wasn't data or experience driven. PTO requirements listed by manufacturers are typically simply a regurgitation of the gearbox limits. There is absolutely no question for example that the NX4510 can run the BB720 efficiently. Box blade capacity is more limited by traction than horsepower and I can spin my wheels pretty easily in dry or wet conditions. Snow plow as in plow is likely to be another traction issue. Snow plow as in blower is indeed a HP issue but a six foot blower is certainly fine for 40hp. Unless you want wider than 12ft that is still just one up and back run. Travel speed I haven't checked and I know that the 6010 has bigger rears so maybe has a couple mph on the smaller version. On a highway that might make a bit of difference. I cannot ever travel at close to top speed on my DK on pasture or farm roads. Way too bumpy.

I know you are planning to do foundation work. Wouldn't either a BH attachment or simply renting a mini excavator make more sense than trying to dig out a foundation with a box blade and loader??? The money saved on the 15hp and ultra box blade would take you pretty close to a nice backhoe. Or, you could rent a mini excavator for a week and have beer money for life.

A six foot snowblower isn't as wide as the rear end of my tractor. And after watching videos of tractors running the type of equipment I planned to use, I went with the 60 hp. I started out thinking I'd compliment my excavator with a skid loader, then arched through looking at telehandlers to tractors. With help from the folks on the Massey forum, my suspicions that a HST transmission was the way to go limited me to around 60 hp tractors. I could have purchased a Deere 5083e pimped out for about even money, or a JCB 506 for about 30K more. The problem with the small telehandlers is that they do not have high-flow hydros and since everything they do is on the front end, hi-flow was necessary. In the end, I decided a tractor offered greater flexibility and I was limited to 60 hp. I never even considered smaller tractors since they don't have the deck-over lift capability I need.

For example: Here we see a Kubota L6060 running an Agrimetal 84" wide Max Snow. The Max Snow is arguably the best two stage blower on the market, yet we see the L6060 struggle. I can only imagine how long it would take an even lower hp tractor to blow out this drift. Oh sure, a lower hp tractor can run this very Max Snow, but if you have other things to do, other places to go, time is money.