NX4510 and NX5010 pricing and review

[GManBart]

As noted in my recent post, this is wrong. A 60hp engine will use more fuel than a 45hp engine to produce any amount of power below 45hp. Engines are most efficient close to their max RPM which for practical purposes is PTO speed RPM. Here is the specific fuel consumption graph for a similar size Yanmar again below. Look at the left upper chart area which shows fuel consumption per unit of power by RPM. Note higher specific fuel consumption at lower RPMs. It isn't a minor difference. Looks to me like at 2/3rd power (compare to about 40hp with a 60hp engine) the fuel efficiency is 1/3rd worse per unit of power produced at non PTO RPM than at PTO speed (The Yanmar "PTO" speed is about 3400). These graphs come from a slightly larger Yanmar but the principle is the same. Diesels are most efficient at about PTO speed and operating them slower consumes more fuel per unit of power. A 45hp engine putting out 40hp will therefore consume less fuel than a 60hp engine producing the same 40hp. Daedong has these types of graphs too but they no longer post them on their website.

If you need 50-60hp most of the time then surely that is the size engine you should get. However if you think spending extra up front for the "insurance" of having extra power on a few occasions down the road, recognize that you not only pay more up front but you pay more at the fuel pump every day too.

Wow....just wow, that is so wrong it's hard to know where to start. You're taking a general rule, and applying it a specific situation, and getting the wrong answer.

The two Yanmar engines you picked are so different that it's simply a ridiculous comparison. The 3JH3E is a 91 cubic inch 3-cylinder naturally aspirated engine. The 4JH3E is a 121 cubic inch 4-cylinder turbo-charged engine. About the only thing they have in common is that they're diesels made by the same company.

I've already posted this before, but you must not have read it. The "general rule" about higher horsepower engines using more fuel to put out X amount of power assumes that they are larger than lower horsepower engines putting out the same amount of power. That's because larger engines have higher pumping losses, more internal friction, along with a few other factors like larger accessories, etc.

That is NOT the case with the Kioti NX series. The four different engine setups are the same other than injector and turbo settings. The pumping losses, friction, etc will all be the same. Thus, in this specific case, all the things that typically make up fuel efficiency differences are the same.

 

[IslandTractor]

For YOUR uses, you mean... ?

Of course. But the bigger point is that stuffing 60hp into a CUT frame starts to do weird things to efficiency. At some point people should just increase frame size. I think the F150/F250 analogy is appropriate here. You don't gain much utility by stuffing more and more HP into an F150. There comes a time to bite the bullet and upgrade to a F250 or alternatively just live with the occasional limitation of the F150. I understand the HST argument but I don't think those of you who are continuing to argue for 60hp in a CUT are seeing the forest for the trees. Five years ago there were no 60hp CUTs. People just bought utility tractors once they needed that much power. There are huge advantages to a 60hp utility tractor over a 60hp CUT. Basically the utility tractor would out perform in all areas except 1) availability of HST and 2) trailering. If you really must have HST and small frame size then by all means shoot the CUT up with steroids. But the majority of tractor buyers would be better served by a either 45hp CUT or a 60hp utility tractor.

 

[murphy1244]

I agree that there are specific needs that can be best met with something like a NX6010 (or a 500hp King Ranch!). My main point is that for the vast majority of tractor users in non commercial settings, the base NX4510 will do just about everything that they need and about everything the NX6010 can do without bigger implements. Because of the upfront costs and higher operation costs, potential buyers should think very hard before paying a significant premium to upgrade to 55 or 60hp. I don't think you will find many (?if any) DK40se owners who felt they should have paid extra for more hp or who did in fact trade up to a DK45 or 50. Kioti played exactly the same game with the DK lineup. People often trade up tractors but most of the time it is to a larger frame size and it is everything (weight, loader, 3PT etc) that comes with an upgrade in FRAME size that makes the most difference.

The DK 45 was an extra 2500.00 over the DK-40. for an extra 4 HP.

 

[IslandTractor]

The DK 45 was an extra 2500.00 over the DK-40. for an extra 4 HP.

Yep. Kioti plays a game where they change piston size and jack up the price. I doubt it costs them more than $50 for larger pistons and the machining costs would be identical. Pure marketing. If anyone complained about the DK40se's 41hp it would be one thing but there really were no complaints. Kioti just brought out the "bigger HP" models and upsold. Americans are suckers for HP.

And, nobody in their right mind would pay $2500 more for a used DK45 than for a DK40 so that upcharge is just a sunk cost.

 

[94BULLITT]

For YOUR uses, you mean... ?

Not for me, anyone. I have no problem spinning the tires on the L4240 using the loader or a 3PH implement. What good would more power be? Now if you are going to be pulling a 12' batwing then the extra power is going to be nice. Most people that have a high power CUT don't use all the power they have.

 

[94BULLITT]

The DK 45 was an extra 2500.00 over the DK-40. for an extra 4 HP.

It was $1500 to go from an L4240 to a L4740.

 

[murphy1244]

It was $1500 to go from an L4240 to a L4740.

And 3700.00 to climb up to a DK-50.

 

[94BULLITT]

I was dicussing this in a PM recently. Here are some current Kubota prices for comparable equipped tractors.

L6060 is $50,381
M6060HDC $47,866
M7060HDC12 is $51,840. and this is with a 12 speed, a 8 speed would be less
M8560HDC12 is $55,113
M9960HDC24 is $62,052 but this is a 24 speed

 

[TSO]

Not for me, anyone. I have no problem spinning the tires on the L4240 using the loader or a 3PH implement. What good would more power be? Now if you are going to be pulling a 12' batwing then the extra power is going to be nice. Most people that have a high power CUT don't use all the power they have.

Hmmmm... Lol so you're saying that no one in the world could possible need more power in a CUT than your L4240 has !?

Have you read any of my posts in this thread, specifically pertaining to my uses?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I agree that there are specific needs that can be best met with something like a NX6010 (or a 500hp King Ranch!). My main point is that for the vast majority of tractor users in non commercial settings, the base NX4510 will do just about everything that they need and about everything the NX6010 can do without bigger implements. Because of the upfront costs and higher operation costs, potential buyers should think very hard before paying a significant premium to upgrade to 55 or 60hp. I don't think you will find many (?if any) DK40se owners who felt they should have paid extra for more hp or who did in fact trade up to a DK45 or 50. Kioti played exactly the same game with the DK lineup. People often trade up tractors but most of the time it is to a larger frame size and it is everything (weight, loader, 3PT etc) that comes with an upgrade in FRAME size that makes the most difference.

Island, the NX6010 is Cat2, allowing people to use heavier implements. Using your logic, nobody should buy 60 skip loaders, or 60hp skid loaders. That extra 15hp is completely worthless.

A 45hp machine couldn't use my rotary cutter and I think it would be hard-pressed trying to use my 84" industrial box scraper. With ballast, my 4600 pound NX6010 weights 5900 pounds. Add another 1100 pounds for a loader, another 400-500 pounds for a bucket or grapple, and the machine is 7400-7500 pounds before attaching anything at the rear. Add another 1200+ pounds for an industrial box scraper and you want to drag 8800 pounds around with 45 hp, huh?

Life is too short waiting for you to get done doing that.

And while we're at it, you go get an F250, my F150 is fine.