NX4510 and NX5010 pricing and review

[TSO]

I wouldn't say no regrets. Higher purchase price means less cash to buy more or better implements. Bigger engine means more fuel always even though you'd likely need the extra HP only with some PTO tasks. Excess HP is wasted unless you buy bigger more expensive implements. Zero increase in hydraulic related power. Zero increase in loader capacity.

I don't have an NX but have never seen a task done by a DK50 that my DK40 couldn't do.

Extra few $K to start could allow purchase of a specialized or higher quality implement that could ultimately make a much bigger difference to work output than more HP.

And, don't forget the wasted fuel.

True, and there is validity there... However, using the same tractor with more HP will put less stress on the engine, and possibly use the same or less fuel because you won't have to run as high of RPM's for some of the tasks. If financed, there will be only a marginal increase in monthly cost (especially with the Kioti since their HP jumps are comparably cheap) and resale will likely also reflect the reality that there will be less of them (same frame higher HP) in circulation, and they should retain their value as well, if not better, than the machines with less HP. Then there's the reassurance of
Knowing that your chances of running low on HP are much less than going with less HP to begin with.

I'm not saying that a particular person that buys a machine with lower HP will automatically regret it later, but I think that most here would agree that the likelihood of someone regretting not having enough HP to begin with, would far outweigh those regretting getting too much HP.... In the same size tractor.

 

[GManBart]

I wouldn't say no regrets. Higher purchase price means less cash to buy more or better implements.

Extra few $K to start could allow purchase of a specialized or higher quality implement that could ultimately make a much bigger difference to work output than more HP.

Your argument makes assumptions about the purchaser's budget limitations that may not be there at all. The difference from an NX 4510 to the 6010 is only around $6K so it's not a huge jump, and the 5510 and 6010 have larger wheels and tires, which have some advantages.

I don't have an NX but have never seen a task done by a DK50 that my DK40 couldn't do.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen....that's sort of why they make machines with different horsepower levels. 5hp difference at the PTO isn't a big deal until you can't quite get the job done, or you get slowed down significantly, and then it matters a lot. TSO has mentioned wanting more PTO power for his Massey when he's used his stump grinder (going off memory)....and I'll bet 5hp more would solve that for him.

Bigger engine means more fuel always even though you'd likely need the extra HP only with some PTO tasks. Excess HP is wasted unless you buy bigger more expensive implements.

And, don't forget the wasted fuel.

This is one of those things that sounds logical, but can be very hard to prove in reality. People automatically assume higher horsepower engines burn more fuel at all times, but that isn't always true. In many cases the higher horsepower engine burns more fuel at all times because it has a larger displacement, so pumping losses are higher and larger components have more friction, parasitic losses, etc. In this case, the Kioti NX engines are all the same size....same pumping efficiency, same friction, etc. The higher horsepower models are tuned differently (injectors and turbo settings), but that isn't going to make a big difference in fuel efficiency to put out X amount of horsepower. If you put all four engines on a test stand, and set them for something like 35hp at the PTO, they're going to be using about the same amount of fuel. In practice, the larger horsepower models will use a touch more fuel because they will be making more power at PTO speed than the lower horsepower models....but it's not going to be a huge difference.

 

[IslandTractor]

Your argument makes assumptions about the purchaser's budget limitations that may not be there at all. The difference from an NX 4510 to the 6010 is only around $6K so it's not a huge jump, and the 5510 and 6010 have larger wheels and tires, which have some advantages. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen....that's sort of why they make machines with different horsepower levels. 5hp difference at the PTO isn't a big deal until you can't quite get the job done, or you get slowed down significantly, and then it matters a lot. TSO has mentioned wanting more PTO power for his Massey when he's used his stump grinder (going off memory)....and I'll bet 5hp more would solve that for him. This is one of those things that sounds logical, but can be very hard to prove in reality. People automatically assume higher horsepower engines burn more fuel at all times, but that isn't always true. In many cases the higher horsepower engine burns more fuel at all times because it has a larger displacement, so pumping losses are higher and larger components have more friction, parasitic losses, etc. In this case, the Kioti NX engines are all the same size....same pumping efficiency, same friction, etc. The higher horsepower models are tuned differently (injectors and turbo settings), but that isn't going to make a big difference in fuel efficiency to put out X amount of horsepower. If you put all four engines on a test stand, and set them for something like 35hp at the PTO, they're going to be using about the same amount of fuel. In practice, the larger horsepower models will use a touch more fuel because they will be making more power at PTO speed than the lower horsepower models....but it's not going to be a huge difference.

1) if the difference in price of $6000 is "justified" by bigger tires and different sized pistons, then anyone who does not have a very specific need for the extra 15hp is frankly a sucker for buying the NX6010. Kioti entry level tractors in each size are great values and highly capable. The uncharged higher horsepower versions are poor value in comparison to the base model.

2) Kioti is a marketing company and will squeeze every buck they can from a customer. They play games with higher horsepower engines that cost them about ten bucks extra to manufacture. If the engine is the same block and the peripherals are all the same, then the horsepower is just a marketing gimmick. They did the same thing with the DK series which I know well.

3) Horsepower junkies are easy prey for Barnum and Bailey marketing scams. A new sucker is born every minute.

4) someone pulling a four gang plow or haying or mowing with an eight or ten foot mower might well utilize 60hp regularly enough to justify the $6K premium. The rest are either naive victims or just drunk on horsepower.

5) if you really need 60hp regularly, you really should be looking at utility tractors not CUTs.

6) if budget is not a consideration, then buy JD or Kubota. Kioti is a value brand.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

1) if the difference in price of $6000 is "justified" by bigger tires and different sized pistons, then anyone who does not have a very specific need for the extra 15hp is frankly a sucker for buying the NX6010. Kioti entry level tractors in each size are great values and highly capable. The uncharged higher horsepower versions are poor value in comparison to the base model.

2) Kioti is a marketing company and will squeeze every buck they can from a customer. They play games with higher horsepower engines that cost them about ten bucks extra to manufacture. If the engine is the same block and the peripherals are all the same, then the horsepower is just a marketing gimmick. They did the same thing with the DK series which I know well.

3) Horsepower junkies are easy prey for Barnum and Bailey marketing scams. A new sucker is born every minute.

4) someone pulling a four gang plow or haying or mowing with an eight or ten foot mower might well utilize 60hp regularly enough to justify the $6K premium. The rest are either naive victims or just drunk on horsepower.

5) if you really need 60hp regularly, you really should be looking at utility tractors not CUTs.

6) if budget is not a consideration, then buy JD or Kubota. Kioti is a value brand.

I liked the Kioti cab better than either the Kubota L6060 or Deere 4066R. You're applying your own particular, singular opinion as though it is a universal and broadly applicable view without recognition that other people do not share your own motivations, perspectives, time frames, and expectations.

Last I heard Kioti was a tractor company, not marketing company. Kioti hires ad agencies, Kioti is not an ad agency. Kioti's NX series competes in the premium compact tractor space with Deer, Kubota, and Massey as the largest competitors. Currently Kioti is attempting a land grab in the compact tractor, lifestyle market and is second to Kubota in total compact tractor sales in North America.

I never priced out the 45hp version of the NX because I was shopping for a 60ish hp tractor because I knew I would be using 3PT equipment that required at least 60hp. Here is what I use 60 hp for. When I start digging foundations out, it'll become even more obvious why I was willing to pay extra for more power while retaining the easy to use HST transmission.

 

[IslandTractor]

I liked the Kioti cab better than either the Kubota L6060 or Deere 4066R. You're applying your own particular, singular opinion as though it is a universal and broadly applicable view without recognition that other people do not share your own motivations, perspectives, time frames, and expectations. Last I heard Kioti was a tractor company, not marketing company. Kioti hires ad agencies, Kioti is not an ad agency. Kioti's NX series competes in the premium compact tractor space with Deer, Kubota, and Massey as the largest competitors. Currently Kioti is attempting a land grab in the compact tractor, lifestyle market and is second to Kubota in total compact tractor sales in North America. I never priced out the 45hp version of the NX because I was shopping for a 60ish hp tractor because I knew I would be using 3PT equipment that required at least 60hp. Here is what I use 60 hp for. When I start digging foundations out, it'll become even more obvious why I was willing to pay extra for more power while retaining the easy to use HST transmission. YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZg7LFy2VpY

Daedong is a tractor manufacturer. Kioti is a brand name and Kioti USA is for all intents pretty much a marketing company. Sure they sell parts and manage warranties and mismanage dealers too so perhaps they are more than a simple marketing company but you will find more marketing types than engineers on the Kioti USA payroll. My main point is that an absurd $6000 up charge for different pistons is evidence that the horsepower thing is marketing BS. The 45 and 60 hp versions differ very little for the vast majority of tasks CUT owners do. It's like the up charge for a King Ranch F150 over the XT but they don't even throw in leather. The base tractor is highly capable. You better have a dam good reason to shovel an extra six grand into their hopper. Tractors are not designed to dig out foundations. A mini excavator will work circles around a CUT in that arena and can be rented when needed. Size a tractor for what you typically do, not for extreme projects. I have been a very happy Kioti owner for almost ten years. They produce a fine commodity tractor that provides great value at the base level of each frame size. They have come up with schemes to squeeze extra money from people who are impressed with horsepower. If you really need it fine but I suspect most who pay for the upgrade have not done a careful analysis of their needs. Statements like "you can never have enough HP" are just juvenile and frankly dumb. Luckily for Kioti there are a lot of folks happy to think that bigger pistons are worth $6000 and that somehow $6000 isn't really 6000 if you break it down to monthly payments. And no, you won't recoup the $6K when you sell used.

 

[GManBart]

1) if the difference in price of $6000 is "justified" by bigger tires and different sized pistons, then anyone who does not have a very specific need for the extra 15hp is frankly a sucker for buying the NX6010. Kioti entry level tractors in each size are great values and highly capable. The uncharged higher horsepower versions are poor value in comparison to the base model.

2) Kioti is a marketing company and will squeeze every buck they can from a customer. They play games with higher horsepower engines that cost them about ten bucks extra to manufacture. If the engine is the same block and the peripherals are all the same, then the horsepower is just a marketing gimmick. They did the same thing with the DK series which I know well.

3) Horsepower junkies are easy prey for Barnum and Bailey marketing scams. A new sucker is born every minute.

4) someone pulling a four gang plow or haying or mowing with an eight or ten foot mower might well utilize 60hp regularly enough to justify the $6K premium. The rest are either naive victims or just drunk on horsepower.

5) if you really need 60hp regularly, you really should be looking at utility tractors not CUTs.

6) if budget is not a consideration, then buy JD or Kubota. Kioti is a value brand.

Okay, since you didn't reply with any facts, I'm going to translate your reply for everybody else. You don't need more than 40hp, so nobody else might have a reasonable need for it either. Got it...thanks!

I'm not sure if you read the entire thread or not, but I'm the OP. One of my criteria, which you seem to have missed, was that I planned to use the same implements on the Kioti (if I bought one) as on my Massey. My Massey has 45hp at the PTO, so it was going to have to be either the 5510 or 6010 to keep it in the ballpark. I wanted to be able to run as big an implement as possible, as fast as possible with both machines. If I tried that with a 4510 and it's whopping 33.9hp, it wasn't going to work out very well. That's worth the $3K difference it would have cost to go from the 4510 to the 5510...at least it would have been to me.

I decided to go much bigger, for now, but when I get all the big stuff done, I'll probably sell it, and go back to the biggest CUT with HST that I can afford without breaking the bank.

BTW, it's actually only $4,500 to go from a 4510 to a 6010 at the local prices...$29,500 for a 4510 and $34K for a 6010.

 

[IslandTractor]

Okay, since you didn't reply with any facts, I'm going to translate your reply for everybody else. You don't need more than 40hp, so nobody else might have a reasonable need for it either. Got it...thanks!

You can't read. I gave several reasons/examples why more HP might be needed. However, the number of buyers who actually use those implements or others regularly are small. Most just waste money and fuel.

 

[GManBart]

I have been a very happy Kioti owner for almost ten years. They produce a fine commodity tractor that provides great value at the base level of each frame size. They have come up with schemes to squeeze extra money from people who are impressed with horsepower. If you really need it fine but I suspect most who pay for the upgrade have not done a careful analysis of their needs. Statements like "you can never have enough HP" are just juvenile and frankly dumb. Luckily for Kioti there are a lot of folks happy to think that bigger pistons are worth $6000 and that somehow $6000 isn't really 6000 if you break it down to monthly payments. And no, you won't recoup the $6K when you sell used.

First off, it's really only $4,500 difference...approximately $1,500 per 5hp step, which is very reasonable compared to most manufacturers.

Some people don't want to get by with just the base level power, and might want to run bigger implements....that requires horsepower. If you don't want it, great...you didn't pay for it, and you can slug along going slower, and pulling smaller all you want, but suggesting more power is always a waste is, to use your terms, frankly dumb.

I already pointed out an example of TSO with his 1648...it has 36.5hp at the PTO, and he says that really isn't enough for running his stump grinder, which he does pretty regularly (season, I'm sure). Your DK40SE has 4hp less at the PTO, so it would really struggle running that same stump grinder.

For me, and some others, time is money....I can make more money, but I can't make more time. If paying a couple of grand more will let me go up one size in implements, and that saves me time that I can be doing other stuff, I'm happy to pay it. I enjoy running my machines, but most of the time I'm trying to get done as fast as possible while doing a good job and being safe. Then again, that's why I went way bigger and didn't buy the Kioti.

So you really don't think you'll get more of your purchase price back when you sell a machine with more power? That's pretty silly. If you go to sell your DK40SE, and somebody else lists an otherwise identical DK45SE, they're going to get more money for it...plain and simple.

 

[GManBart]

You can't read. I gave several reasons/examples why more HP might be needed. However, the number of buyers who actually use those implements or others regularly are small. Most just waste money and fuel.

Oh, I wasn't aware you had national statistics on what people bought, and the exact ways they were using them. You're guessing.

Again, because you don't need it, most other people don't need it either....I think we all get that now.

You can't read. I've already pointed out why your "waste fuel" argument is simply wrong....same engine dimensions (yes including pistons which you seem to be unaware of), same pumping losses, same fuel used for the same amount of power output...or so close it would be hard to measure.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Daedong is a tractor manufacturer. Kioti is a brand name and Kioti USA is for all intents pretty much a marketing company. Sure they sell parts and manage warranties and mismanage dealers too so perhaps they are more than a simple marketing company but you will find more marketing types than engineers on the Kioti USA payroll. My main point is that an absurd $6000 up charge for different pistons is evidence that the horsepower thing is marketing BS. The 45 and 60 hp versions differ very little for the vast majority of tasks CUT owners do. It's like the up charge for a King Ranch F150 over the XT but they don't even throw in leather. The base tractor is highly capable. You better have a dam good reason to shovel an extra six grand into their hopper. Tractors are not designed to dig out foundations. A mini excavator will work circles around a CUT in that arena and can be rented when needed. Size a tractor for what you typically do, not for extreme projects. I have been a very happy Kioti owner for almost ten years. They produce a fine commodity tractor that provides great value at the base level of each frame size. They have come up with schemes to squeeze extra money from people who are impressed with horsepower. If you really need it fine but I suspect most who pay for the upgrade have not done a careful analysis of their needs. Statements like "you can never have enough HP" are just juvenile and frankly dumb. Luckily for Kioti there are a lot of folks happy to think that bigger pistons are worth $6000 and that somehow $6000 isn't really 6000 if you break it down to monthly payments. And no, you won't recoup the $6K when you sell used.

That's like saying Massey is a marketing company because AGCO owns Massey. You're going to stick with that assertion and ride it home? Really?

This discussion with you is like the fellow I met who said buying new is a waste of money, that we should always buy used.

I'm not that guy, just as I'm not you.

Get it?

Not you.

Other people are not you.

Get it?

They are not you.

We have different views than you do.

Get it?

Different views.

Some of us want more hp for reasons we don't need to justify to you.

Get it?

Reasons that don't need to be justified to you.

All said, I suspect your views are in the minority and i think we should move on and get back to being enthusiasts.

 

[TSO]

I already pointed out an example of TSO with his 1648...it has 36.5hp at the PTO, and he says that really isn't enough for running his stump grinder, which he does pretty regularly (season, I'm sure).

Hey! Don't pick on my little Massey! Lol

She handles the grinder 90% of the time, but for really large stumps that are are relatively fresh, the HP isn't enough to sustain the RPM's needed to power the grinder thru them.

Honestly, the only thing that keeps stopping me from swapping to a higher HP CUT is that I just don't know how much HP would really be "enough" to keep the grinder spinning thru those more troublesome stumps. A few dealers that I spoke with said that, for the grinder at least, they didn't think I'd really notice going up 10'ish PTO HP.

 

[kapper]

Your argument makes assumptions about the purchaser's budget limitations that may not be there at all. The difference from an NX 4510 to the 6010 is only around $6K so it's not a huge jump, and the 5510 and 6010 have larger wheels and tires, which have some advantages.



Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen....that's sort of why they make machines with different horsepower levels. 5hp difference at the PTO isn't a big deal until you can't quite get the job done, or you get slowed down significantly, and then it matters a lot. TSO has mentioned wanting more PTO power for his Massey when he's used his stump grinder (going off memory)....and I'll bet 5hp more would solve that for him.



This is one of those things that sounds logical, but can be very hard to prove in reality. People automatically assume higher horsepower engines burn more fuel at all times, but that isn't always true. In many cases the higher horsepower engine burns more fuel at all times because it has a larger displacement, so pumping losses are higher and larger components have more friction, parasitic losses, etc. In this case, the Kioti NX engines are all the same size....same pumping efficiency, same friction, etc. The higher horsepower models are tuned differently (injectors and turbo settings), but that isn't going to make a big difference in fuel efficiency to put out X amount of horsepower. If you put all four engines on a test stand, and set them for something like 35hp at the PTO, they're going to be using about the same amount of fuel. In practice, the larger horsepower models will use a touch more fuel because they will be making more power at PTO speed than the lower horsepower models....but it's not going to be a huge difference.

Very well said about the budget issues. Each of us is different. I've formed my idea/opinion of buying as much HP as I can is based on my own real world experience. As I mentioned before I started out with the 37 hp then moved up to the 66 hp CUT. There are always times when I am engaged in pto and loader work that I fully use the extra HP and that the lessor hp simply would not work. Examples are many, but here are a few; A) Rotor tilling and discing or plowing land. I've hit tougher soil, rocks, clay that even now with the 66 hp can almost bog it down, but with a 35-40 hp it will bog down the tractor. So then I either can't till or plow those areas, or I waste much more time and fuel trying to 'baby' the implements through the tougher areas of ground. I'm also thinking that this causes much more wear and tear on the equipment with less hp as you are maxing out the rpm's and, in effect, forcing more work than they can handle. B) mowing... seems simple, when you are mowing fairly level ground that has already been cut, right? But add in thick, tangled brush/grass, soft soil and any incline and then what do you get? The smaller hp will, again, bog down or even worse could get stuck if you encounter a wet spot in the area you are mowing. If you have a 6 foot bush hog the thing weights about 1100 to 1200 lbs depending on type etc. I've hit many a wet spot that nearly bogged down the 66 hp, but with some quick thinking was able to muscle it through and keep on working... (read, getting a 4wd CUT stuck in a mucky spot with a 1200 pd implement on back that is now dragging in the mud is simply no fun...) C) pulling/pushing stuff (i.e. large trees) out of your way, or out of the woods. This one is a no brainer, I've had very large oak trees that were down that I needed to move out of the way. I literally beat the snot out of the 37 hp and one time bent a loader arm trying to move very dense & heavy oaks trees from point A to point B. The 66 hp just does everything I ask of it in this instance. You could say the same for moving large rocks with the loader. Now, for loader work. While you many not technically gain any 'lift' weight, you gain more tractor weight (translates into traction) and more power. If you have watched any of my early youtube video's, particularly the one where I dig a deer watering hole (with the 66hp), I will tell you that you simply can't do that type of loader work with a 40hp. OK, maybe I should clarify that a little.... You may be able to do the digging with the less hp, but again, it will take you much longer, possibly much more frustration, and much more wear and tear on the equipment by really, really taxing it. if you look at another of my videos pushing over a 30 foot tree and uprooting it with the 66 hp, you won't do that either with a 40 hp. I know this because I've tried many times with the 37. I can't say for sure what the 'magic' line of having enough hp for nearly any job is, but I prefer to err on the side of caution and get as much as I can swing now, because I know it will pay me back later. I'm not a mechanic so I don't really know how much more fuel you use with the 60 vs the 40, 45, or 50.. Perhaps you may even use less with a bigger hp engine if it is not taxed as hard doing the pto work?? If your budget is tighter and it might make the difference between getting and implement or not getting it, then that may be a good choice to go smaller. But if it were to mean that you just had to delay getting the implement, to get the hp, my recommendation still stands; get as much HP as you can possibly afford, because we are all finding jobs with our tractors that surprise us and when you have 60 hp at your disposal, 99% of the time you will be able to succeed at the job at hand. Whatever you decide though, good luck!!

 

[murphy1244]

Kapper, Please break up this post of yours so people can read it.

 

[TSO]

Very well said about the budget issues. Each of us is different. I've formed my idea/opinion of buying as much HP as I can is based on my own real world experience. As I mentioned before I started out with the 37 hp then moved up to the 66 hp CUT. There are always times when I am engaged in pto and loader work that I fully use the extra HP and that the lessor hp simply would not work. Examples are many, but here are a few; A) Rotor tilling and discing or plowing land. I've hit tougher soil, rocks, clay that even now with the 66 hp can almost bog it down, but with a 35-40 hp it will bog down the tractor. So then I either can't till or plow those areas, or I waste much more time and fuel trying to 'baby' the implements through the tougher areas of ground. I'm also thinking that this causes much more wear and tear on the equipment with less hp as you are maxing out the rpm's and, in effect, forcing more work than they can handle. B) mowing... seems simple, when you are mowing fairly level ground that has already been cut, right? But add in thick, tangled brush/grass, soft soil and any incline and then what do you get? The smaller hp will, again, bog down or even worse could get stuck if you encounter a wet spot in the area you are mowing. If you have a 6 foot bush hog the thing weights about 1100 to 1200 lbs depending on type etc. I've hit many a wet spot that nearly bogged down the 66 hp, but with some quick thinking was able to muscle it through and keep on working... (read, getting a 4wd CUT stuck in a mucky spot with a 1200 pd implement on back that is now dragging in the mud is simply no fun...) C) pulling/pushing stuff (i.e. large trees) out of your way, or out of the woods. This one is a no brainer, I've had very large oak trees that were down that I needed to move out of the way. I literally beat the snot out of the 37 hp and one time bent a loader arm trying to move very dense & heavy oaks trees from point A to point B. The 66 hp just does everything I ask of it in this instance. You could say the same for moving large rocks with the loader. Now, for loader work. While you many not technically gain any 'lift' weight, you gain more tractor weight (translates into traction) and more power. If you have watched any of my early youtube video's, particularly the one where I dig a deer watering hole (with the 66hp), I will tell you that you simply can't do that type of loader work with a 40hp. OK, maybe I should clarify that a little.... You may be able to do the digging with the less hp, but again, it will take you much longer, possibly much more frustration, and much more wear and tear on the equipment by really, really taxing it. if you look at another of my videos pushing over a 30 foot tree and uprooting it with the 66 hp, you won't do that either with a 40 hp. I know this because I've tried many times with the 37. I can't say for sure what the 'magic' line of having enough hp for nearly any job is, but I prefer to err on the side of caution and get as much as I can swing now, because I know it will pay me back later. I'm not a mechanic so I don't really know how much more fuel you use with the 60 vs the 40, 45, or 50.. Perhaps you may even use less with a bigger hp engine if it is not taxed as hard doing the pto work?? If your budget is tighter and it might make the difference between getting and implement or not getting it, then that may be a good choice to go smaller. But if it were to mean that you just had to delay getting the implement, to get the hp, my recommendation still stands; get as much HP as you can possibly afford, because we are all finding jobs with our tractors that surprise us and when you have 60 hp at your disposal, 99% of the time you will be able to succeed at the job at hand. Whatever you decide though, good luck!!

Didn't I hear that you're getting an NX6010? What will you be using it for instead of the 4720?

 

[kapper]

Kapper, Please break up this post of yours so people can read it.

Yes, I will clean them up . Just got to rambling too fast!

 

[kapper]

Didn't I hear that you're getting an NX6010? What will you be using it for instead of the 4720?

I will be keeping it. I have two farms that are 3 hours or so apart. I developed another farm that was a 2 hour drive by hauling my 4720 back and forth with implements for the last 2 years. So, I've decided to have one tractor for each place with its own implements. Originally, I was going to just get a used 35 to 40 hp cut for my smaller farm (15 acres). But then, as is usual for me, when I started pricing them and then adding the 'must have' options like 4 in 1 bucket, rear scv's, cab, etc I found that if you are going to attempt to get all those things in a used then you might as well buy new, and in my case take advantage of their financing. So, in short I will have them both. I plan on doing a detailed video comparing the two tit for tat, which is something that is sorely lacking these days. Not a lot for really good, in-depth reviews of all of these CUT's!

 

[TSO]

I will be keeping it. I have two farms that are 3 hours or so apart. I developed another farm that was a 2 hour drive by hauling my 4720 back and forth with implements for the last 2 years. So, I've decided to have one tractor for each place with its own implements. Originally, I was going to just get a used 35 to 40 hp cut for my smaller farm (15 acres). But then, as is usual for me, when I started pricing them and then adding the 'must have' options like 4 in 1 bucket, rear scv's, cab, etc I found that if you are going to attempt to get all those things in a used then you might as well buy new, and in my case take advantage of their financing. So, in short I will have them both. I plan on doing a detailed video comparing the two tit for tat, which is something that is sorely lacking these days. Not a lot for really good, in-depth reviews of all of these CUT's!

Ok cool. Well both are nice machines and I look forward to your review. I love when i have direct access to more than one machine at the same time ... Makes it easier to compare, not having to rely on memory. I think the JD cabs are really nice, albeit a bit cramped ... But good materials quality. On the direct other hand, the Kioti cab is really spacious but I feel they could've chosen better plastics. TIT-FOR-TAT to be sure. Really like the materials and space in my Massey cab, but hate how they designed it without incorporating any substantial storage space or level surfaces, both of which the JD and Kioti cabs addressed. There's pros and cons (which are subjective for the most part) to every tractor & cab, so it'll be good to hear another perspective.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Ok cool. Well both are nice machines and I look forward to your review. I love when i have direct access to more than one machine at the same time ... Makes it easier to compare, not having to rely on memory. I think the JD cabs are really nice, albeit a bit cramped ... But good materials quality. On the direct other hand, the Kioti cab is really spacious but I feel they could've chosen better plastics. TIT-FOR-TAT to be sure. Really like the materials and space in my Massey cab, but hate how they designed it without incorporating any substantial storage space or level surfaces, both of which the JD and Kioti cabs addressed. There's pros and cons (which are subjective for the most part) to every tractor & cab, so it'll be good to hear another perspective.

I've entertained those 3M sticker hooks since it occurred to me there is a lot of space up high and back that isn't being used and I would like a coat hanger, hat rack.

 

[TSO]

I've entertained those 3M sticker hooks since it occurred to me there is a lot of space up high and back that isn't being used and I would like a coat hanger, hat rack.

I actually employ one of those 3m cell phone cubby/holder and it works well.

 

[IslandTractor]

Very well said about the budget issues. Each of us is different. I've formed my idea/opinion of buying as much HP as I can is based on my own real world experience.

As I mentioned before I started out with the 37 hp then moved up to the 66 hp CUT. There are always times when I am engaged in pto and loader work that I fully use the extra HP and that the lessor hp simply would not work. Examples are many, but here are a few;

A) Rotor tilling and discing or plowing land. I've hit tougher soil, rocks, clay that even now with the 66 hp can almost bog it down, but with a 35-40 hp it will bog down the tractor. So then I either can't till or plow those areas, or I waste much more time and fuel trying to 'baby' the implements through the tougher areas of ground. I'm also thinking that this causes much more wear and tear on the equipment with less hp as you are maxing out the rpm's and, in effect, forcing more work than they can handle.

B) mowing... seems simple, when you are mowing fairly level ground that has already been cut, right? But add in thick, tangled brush/grass, soft soil and any incline and then what do you get? The smaller hp will, again, bog down or even worse could get stuck if you encounter a wet spot in the area you are mowing. If you have a 6 foot bush hog the thing weights about 1100 to 1200 lbs depending on type etc. I've hit many a wet spot that nearly bogged down the 66 hp, but with some quick thinking was able to muscle it through and keep on working... (read, getting a 4wd CUT stuck in a mucky spot with a 1200 pd implement on back that is now dragging in the mud is simply no fun...)

C) pulling/pushing stuff (i.e. large trees) out of your way, or out of the woods. This one is a no brainer, I've had very large oak trees that were down that I needed to move out of the way. I literally beat the snot out of the 37 hp and one time bent a loader arm trying to move very dense & heavy oaks trees from point A to point B. The 66 hp just does everything I ask of it in this instance. You could say the same for moving large rocks with the loader.

Now, for loader work. While you many not technically gain any 'lift' weight, you gain more tractor weight (translates into traction) and more power. If you have watched any of my early youtube video's, particularly the one where I dig a deer watering hole (with the 66hp), I will tell you that you simply can't do that type of loader work with a 40hp. OK, maybe I should clarify that a little.... You may be able to do the digging with the less hp, but again, it will take you much longer, possibly much more frustration, and much more wear and tear on the equipment by really, really taxing it. if you look at another of my videos pushing over a 30 foot tree and uprooting it with the 66 hp, you won't do that either with a 40 hp. I know this because I've tried many times with the 37.

I can't say for sure what the 'magic' line of having enough hp for nearly any job is, but I prefer to err on the side of caution and get as much as I can swing now, because I know it will pay me back later. I'm not a mechanic so I don't really know how much more fuel you use with the 60 vs the 40, 45, or 50.. Perhaps you may even use less with a bigger hp engine if it is not taxed as hard doing the pto work?? If your budget is tighter and it might make the difference between getting and implement or not getting it, then that may be a good choice to go smaller. But if it were to mean that you just had to delay getting the implement, to get the hp, my recommendation still stands; get as much HP as you can possibly afford, because we are all finding jobs with our tractors that surprise us and when you have 60 hp at your disposal, 99% of the time you will be able to succeed at the job at hand. Whatever you decide though, good luck!!

I've taken the liberty to put in some paragraphs in your reply. I hope the changes don't distort anything you said.

You mention a 37hp and a 66hp tractor but you don't state specifically whether they are on the same frame size (I doubt it). There is no question that a larger frame higher horsepower tractor will do more work than a smaller frame lower horsepower tractor. Nobody here is disputing that. However, the issue being debated is the relative advantages of more or less horsepower with the same size frame, identical loader, tractor weight almost identical, and identical hydraulics. As best I can tell the only difference other than horsepower is tire size.

The engines for the NX4510 and 6010 are based on the identical 3 cylinder block and are both naturally aspirated according to Kioti's website. Of course Kioti has never been able to get their website accurate and today both the 45hp and 60hp variants are listed as having the identical 1.8 liter displacement. I rather doubt that is accurate. The other guys here claim to know a lot more about those engines so maybe they can fill us in. I've looked on Kioti's website for the specific fuel consumption graphs for the NX engine series. Nothing to be found and they have even removed the charts they used to have posted for the DK line engines. The general principles are the same with diesels however so a chart demonstrating specific fuel consumption for a Yanmar marine engine is informative. I've posted the jpg below. It basically shows that diesel engines use MORE fuel per kilowatt of power produced when run at LOWER rpm. Running an engine designed to put out 60 hp at 1500rpm to produce the same power as a 45hp engine running at 2000rpm will show that the 60hp engine uses more fuel to produce the same power.

I'm all for efficiency but I don't know of examples of higher horsepower diesels that are equally efficient at the same output. Bigger pistons, bigger bore, more friction surface has to waste fuel when not running at optimal engine speed for efficiency. More important, if diesel engines have their most efficient output close to PTO RPM, then a more powerful engine doing the same work as a smaller engine is going to be operating in a suboptimal RPM range for efficiency. I'm not an engineer but that just stands to reason. Also, while some folks here claim that you would expend the same amount of fuel running a mower with either a high or lower hp engine, it seems impossible to do that unless you run the more powerful engine at a lower RPM. You cannot do that when mowing and expect the same cut. Mowers are engineered to give their best cut at PTO speed. That means if the lower HP engine will be running at PTO speed for a given HP while the higher HP engine running the same mower will be running at significantly lower RPM. Of course the higher horsepower tractor should simply be running a larger mower but that has consequences too. The difference between a 6ft medium duty bush hog and an 8ft medium duty bush hog is a couple of grand last I checked. Pretty much the same story with other implements too. Bigger implements might be desirable but there are good reasons why the vast majority of TBN tractor owners tend to top out at about 6ft implements. If you really think eight foot implements make sense then 60hp might make sense. It would be inefficient however to run six foot implements with a bigger engine than necessary.

With regard to rototilling or discing, horsepower certainly can make a difference in the size implement you can use. For rototilling, 40hp seems fine to run a six foot tiller in my experience. I rototill in low range can can break new sod, wet or dry without even running at full PTO speed. I'm sure a seven or eight foot tiller would require more horsepower. It will also cost almost double what a six foot tiller costs. If you are a commercial farmer that cost may well make total sense. Most folks on TBN are not using their tractors for commercial purposes full time so that calculus is tougher to justify especially for an implement that gets used once or twice a year as with a rototiller.

Mowing seems the area where more HP might well be justified so long as the appropriate size mower is used. As a 40hp does fine running a six foot bush hog, I'd imagine similar efficiency would dictate an eight foot bush hog for a 60hp tractor. Pretty steep price jump from 6ft rotary to 8ft rotary of similar duty rating. Again, for commercial use it might be easy to justify but most TBNers buying Kioti DK or NX size machines are not commercial operators.

I've never run a 3PT stump grinder. I note however that a hydraulic $38,000 Vermeer stump grinder uses a 34hp diesel engine. . A 24" wheel 3pt stump grinder model uses max of 35hp and cuts 10" below grade. A pro 34" model cuts 12" below grade and runs on 35-100hp....why stop at 60hp???

Your comments on pushing trees over and use of the loader are just wrong IMO. The NX tractors are all the same weight and have the same loader. You bent (!!!) an FEL arm on your tractor which shows that even a 37hp tractor can produce damaging amounts of force when used inappropriately on a tractor FEL. Tractor FELs are designed and manufactured to lift not push. We all push with them but clearly there is a reason bulldozers have short fat FEL arms rather than long skinny ones like on a tractor. Having more HP available to push might well allow more force to be exerted against a tree but it is a dangerous thing to do. I've pushed over many trees with my 40hp DKse, not sure I'd want to put even more force on the identical loader (different number same loader ) with an NX.

My bottom line: if you really need 60hp for something other than a larger mower, get a bigger frame tractor. Putting 60hp into the NX frame is akin to putting 500hp into a F150. Very limited returns. Get a F250 instead.