NX4510 and NX5010 pricing and review

[Amvcane]

I am SHOCKED to hear of an inaccuracy in the Kioti website!!!

Kioti is actually quite famous for having bad info on their web pages. Never rely on it.

It is possible for any manufacturer to make a mistake when posting data. Proofreading and editing are a thing of the past since Spell Check arrived.
I cannot say how famous Kioti is at this as I have not compared all other manufactures listed spec to the actual specs of each machine they sell.
I can only imagine that some in this thread would consider these mistakes a marketing scam.

 

[IslandTractor]

It is possible for any manufacturer to make a mistake when posting data. Proofreading and editing are a thing of the past since Spell Check arrived.
I cannot say how famous Kioti is at this as I have not compared all other manufactures listed spec to the actual specs of each machine they sell.
I can only imagine that some in this thread would consider these mistakes a marketing scam.

I suppose it is a bit of an inside joke but Kioti has never been able to get their website data correct. Just yesterday I was trying to look up information on the engines of the NX4510 and 6010. Kioti has them listed as identical, both apparently use the 3F183T. Great. How is a rational as compared to an emotional or hype based decision supposed to be made if there is no data to compare the two? How do the NX6010 buyers know they even have a 60hp engine??? Do you guys really think Daedong has managed to squeeze 60hp out of a naturally aspirated 1.8 liter engine as listed on the website??? And, if you click on the "engines" tab for all their tractors, you just get a glossy page of nothingness. You used to be able to see specs on all the engines Daedong sells for tractors. Essentially, they have taken down all performance and even all specifications on their engines. Try to find bore and stroke for the engines. Even googling doesn't help. Once upon a time you could look up actual test data and performance graphs. Apparently it is more important to have glossy photos than data on their tractors now. Further evidence that Kioti USA is a marketing company first and foremost.

This is not a single instance. There have been significant errors that have been left in place literally for years on that website. Poor management that reflects badly on Kioti IMO.

 

[IslandTractor]

I was just searching further for information on the Tier 4 Daedong engines used in the NX4510 and 6010. As noted earlier there is basically no data on the Kioti website. Actually there is a statement that the engine is the "3F183T" but that is described on the specifications as "naturally aspirated". WTF??? I then downloaded the printed brochure and to my surprise the "3F183T" is listed as the engine there too for ALL of the NX tractors from 45 to 60hp but now it has gained a turbocharger. WTF???????

Does Daedong just crank up the boost on the same block/engine to get from 45 to 60hp???? If so then there are going to be some serious longevity considerations for those of you opting for the 60hp version.

Also, is there any evidence that the cooling system has been upgraded from the NX4510 to the 6010??? Larger radiator perhaps??? If not, you 60hp guys are going to be cleaning your radiator screen a heck of a lot more frequently than the rest of us.

I don't really know if the printed and website information is just wrong (clearly some of it is) but I would like to know how you NX6010 owners figured out what kind of engine you have?? Clearly you didn't find out from Kioti literature.

 

[TJP89]

This is now the 2nd NX thread that has gone to H***, What is it about these tractors that sends everyone ballistic????

 

[GManBart]

Your data isn't to the point. Yes, the bigger engines were more efficient at full horsepower. But we have been discussing the very common phenomenon of using engines at less than full power. When you run a backhoe you don't use full power. When you do loader work you don't use full power. The Nebraska standards are geared towards ground engaging tasks where full power is used. The data doesn't tell you anything about the gal/hr when running at more typical RPM for loader work. I posted graphs from Yanmar earlier today that show pretty clearly that when running at lower than full PTO speed, ALL diesel engines are less fuel efficient. That is the key point, not whether a 51hp engine is more efficient at 51hp than a 41 hp engine is at 41. All those Nebraska data you quote appear to be measured at full PTO. Let's see some real world data that applied to typical CUT use. You have ZERO data for your pure speculation that "dial it back to make the same power as the smaller engines, and the fuel consumption would be either identical ....". Baloney. Show us data to back up your assertion (which contradicts the diesel manufacturers).

I do agree that for someone running the engines 200 hrs a year the difference in fuel consumption for 45hp vs 60hp doing the identical task is not a lot of gallons or money but it is less efficient.

And, don't forget the hazards of too much horsepower. Read Eric's other thread to see how he has torn up implements etc.

Again, you're applying a general rule to a specific situation, and getting the wrong answer. Go look at the Nebraska tests for those Deere 4X20 series and you'll see your theory posted here is completely wrong. I'll give you the short version:

Deere 4720 producing 40hp PTO was using 2.8gal/hr.
Deere 4520 producing 40hp PTO was using 2.8gal/hr.
Deere 4320 producing 40hp PTO was using 2.9gal/hr.

The same engine with different turbo and injector settings used the same basic amount of fuel to put out the same amount of power. Your theory of "wasted fuel" is completely wrong in this specific situation. Make the higher horsepower engine larger, more cylinders, etc, etc and things might be different, but they aren't.

If someone tears up implements because they have "too much horsepower" they would likely tear them up with 5-15hp less, or they bought an implement that wasn't suited for the use at hand. You have to pick the implements carefully any time you're trying to maximize productivity, then you need to use them appropriately....it's not the tractor's fault if they get damaged.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I was just searching further for information on the Tier 4 Daedong engines used in the NX4510 and 6010. As noted earlier there is basically no data on the Kioti website. Actually there is a statement that the engine is the "3F183T" but that is described on the specifications as "naturally aspirated". WTF??? I then downloaded the printed brochure and to my surprise the "3F183T" is listed as the engine there too for ALL of the NX tractors from 45 to 60hp but now it has gained a turbocharger. WTF???????

Does Daedong just crank up the boost on the same block/engine to get from 45 to 60hp???? If so then there are going to be some serious longevity considerations for those of you opting for the 60hp version.

Also, is there any evidence that the cooling system has been upgraded from the NX4510 to the 6010??? Larger radiator perhaps??? If not, you 60hp guys are going to be cleaning your radiator screen a heck of a lot more frequently than the rest of us.

I don't really know if the printed and website information is just wrong (clearly some of it is) but I would like to know how you NX6010 owners figured out what kind of engine you have?? Clearly you didn't find out from Kioti literature.

Imagine an engine designed to make more than 60 hp detuned to 60 hp, and 55hp, and 50 hp, and 45hp?

Imagine a radiator and cooling system so efficient, the problem is that the engine never warms up unless it is under a load, rather than running too warm because it isn't efficient enough. Imagine all the people who thought about this before you did?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Eric, what size truck are you pulling all this weight with and what are the towing capabilities?

F150, 11,000 pounds.

 

[GManBart]

How much did each tractor pull?

It appears they don't do those tests any longer....drawbar pull, etc. They might for larger machines, but the tests I looked at were just PTO and fuel consumption, 3pt hitch, and hydraulic pump output.

 

[IslandTractor]

Imagine an engine designed to make more than 60 hp detuned to 60 hp, and 55hp, and 50 hp, and 45hp?

Imagine a radiator and cooling system so efficient, the problem is that the engine never warms up unless it is under a load, rather than running too warm because it isn't efficient enough. Imagine all the people who thought about this before you did?

If Daedong detuned the engine, they would reasonably give it a different name and rating no?? That's what every other diesel manufacturer does. Why does Kioti list the same model and same displacement??? The DK series motor was bored and stroked to get higher output. That one was naturally aspirated. If Daedong is varying the turbocharger psi to modify output on the 3F183T, then there absolutely will be implications for duty cycle. Why is there no mention of this in any of the Daedong/Kioti literature? Is the 3F183T rated for continuous, medium or intermittent duty at 60hp??? Surely you went over this with the dealer before ordering??? Do you even know whether your engine is actually 1.8 liters? I cannot find any technical info at all that isn't rehashed news releases with limited data. Of course you will undoubtedly have thought about all of this before I did so please don't keep us in suspense any longer. How exactly do the four versions of the 3F183T differ from each other?

Regarding the cooling system, I don't care how efficient it is, it is going to require cleaning of the radiator screen to keep it efficient when mowing. If I recall the laws of physics properly, the 60hp variant will put out significantly more heat at PTO RPM than the 45hp model. It stands to reason that the 45 will therefore be more tolerant of chaff in the radiator screen and remain at normal operating temperature longer. Your mower looks brand new so perhaps you haven't experienced the pleasures of monitoring the temp gauge while trying to mow midsummer. And, remember, it was the same engineers in Korea who designed the cooling system for the DK. I assure you that cooling system works fine until the radiator screen gets clogged so I'm pretty sure the same issue will occur with the NX.

 

[TSO]

If Daedong detuned the engine, they would reasonably give it a different name and rating no?? That's what every other diesel manufacturer does. Why does Kioti list the same model and same displacement??? The DK series motor was bored and stroked to get higher output. That one was naturally aspirated. If Daedong is varying the turbocharger psi to modify output on the 3F183T, then there absolutely will be implications for duty cycle. Why is there no mention of this in any of the Daedong/Kioti literature? Is the 3F183T rated for continuous, medium or intermittent duty at 60hp??? Surely you went over this with the dealer before ordering??? Do you even know whether your engine is actually 1.8 liters? I cannot find any technical info at all that isn't rehashed news releases with limited data. Of course you will undoubtedly have thought about all of this before I did so please don't keep us in suspense any longer. How exactly do the four versions of the 3F183T differ from each other?

Regarding the cooling system, I don't care how efficient it is, it is going to require cleaning of the radiator screen to keep it efficient when mowing. If I recall the laws of physics properly, the 60hp variant will put out significantly more heat at PTO RPM than the 45hp model. It stands to reason that the 45 will therefore be more tolerant of chaff in the radiator screen and remain at normal operating temperature longer. Your mower looks brand new so perhaps you haven't experienced the pleasures of monitoring the temp gauge while trying to mow midsummer. And, remember, it was the same engineers in Korea who designed the cooling system for the DK. I assure you that cooling system works fine until the radiator screen gets clogged so I'm pretty sure the same issue will occur with the NX.

LS did the same with the R4041/47... Same engine, just tuning.

FYI, the DK40se & 50se, fun what I recall, was also the same engine. The DK45se was an older, larger displacement engine.