NX4510 and NX5010 pricing and review

[IslandTractor]

And the DK don't have no stinkin seat switch!!

Make that no $4500 stinkin seat switch!:laughing:

 

[GManBart]

If Daedong detuned the engine, they would reasonably give it a different name and rating no?? That's what every other diesel manufacturer does. Why does Kioti list the same model and same displacement??? The DK series motor was bored and stroked to get higher output. That one was naturally aspirated. If Daedong is varying the turbocharger psi to modify output on the 3F183T, then there absolutely will be implications for duty cycle. Why is there no mention of this in any of the Daedong/Kioti literature? Is the 3F183T rated for continuous, medium or intermittent duty at 60hp??? Surely you went over this with the dealer before ordering??? Do you even know whether your engine is actually 1.8 liters? I cannot find any technical info at all that isn't rehashed news releases with limited data. Of course you will undoubtedly have thought about all of this before I did so please don't keep us in suspense any longer. How exactly do the four versions of the 3F183T differ from each other?

Regarding the cooling system, I don't care how efficient it is, it is going to require cleaning of the radiator screen to keep it efficient when mowing. If I recall the laws of physics properly, the 60hp variant will put out significantly more heat at PTO RPM than the 45hp model. It stands to reason that the 45 will therefore be more tolerant of chaff in the radiator screen and remain at normal operating temperature longer. Your mower looks brand new so perhaps you haven't experienced the pleasures of monitoring the temp gauge while trying to mow midsummer. And, remember, it was the same engineers in Korea who designed the cooling system for the DK. I assure you that cooling system works fine until the radiator screen gets clogged so I'm pretty sure the same issue will occur with the NX.

Again....there are more errors here than we can point out.

Deere used the same model number, 4042T, for the engine in all of the 4x20 series machines...didn't cause any problems, and no special mention of it was made.

The obvious answer, to pretty much all of these ridiculous questions, is that the engine was built to be capable of producing 60hp at whatever duty cycle they normally use...likely constant duty.

The difference in PTO power from the 45hp version to the 60hp version isn't going to create a huge difference win how much heat is generated....regardless, it's a safe bet they factored that in when they sized the cooling system.

 

[IslandTractor]

Again....there are more errors here than we can point out. Deere used the same model number, 4042T, for the engine in all of the 4x20 series machines...didn't cause any problems, and no special mention of it was made. The obvious answer, to pretty much all of these ridiculous questions, is that the engine was built to be capable of producing 60hp at whatever duty cycle they normally use...likely constant duty. The difference in PTO power from the 45hp version to the 60hp version isn't going to create a huge difference win how much heat is generated....regardless, it's a safe bet they factored that in when they sized the cooling system.

So you seem to accept that the only difference between the four engines is the EPROM flash. Amazing. Selling tractors like haute couture where the name justifies the price as there really is no other difference. $4500 for a click of a mouse.

How can you guys swallow that??

Why hasn't someone just figured out an aftermarket chip programmer. Daedong didn't invent the process. Why can't a dealer just reprogram a NX4510?

Bottom line here is that anyone buying a NX should have a REALLY good reason for buying anything other than the 4510. And, if you do decide to "upgrade", bring a tube of K-Y jelly with you to the dealership.

 

[TSO]

Hey fellas ... I need you to take a break from this "discussion" and help me out over here please... the problem seems to be worse than I thought and I need your help (please read thru the thread, I just updated it)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/331574-cold-start-issues-fluid-needs.html

 

[GManBart]

So you seem to accept that the only difference between the four engines is the EPROM flash. Amazing. Selling tractors like haute couture where the name justifies the price as there really is no other difference. $4500 for a click of a mouse.

How can you guys swallow that??

Why hasn't someone just figured out an aftermarket chip programmer. Daedong didn't invent the process. Why can't a dealer just reprogram a NX4510?

Bottom line here is that anyone buying a NX should have a REALLY good reason for buying anything other than the 4510. And, if you do decide to "upgrade", bring a tube of K-Y jelly with you to the dealership.

I never said it was just an EPROM flash. It may well have different injectors, or a variation on the turbo, or the injector pump...I'm sure a parts manual for the model would help sort that out.

I don't see why this upsets you so much about this particular tractor....others have been done the same way, and nobody complains. If you don't need the power, you don't pay for it. If you need it, you pay for it...it's simple. When I bought my LS I knew the R4041 had the same engine with different tuning/injectors, etc, and I still bought the R4047 for the extra 6hp because I knew I wanted to run larger implements, and I'm glad that's what I bought...it had plenty of power, but wasn't overly powerful for an open station 47hp CUT. It it was a cabbed model, with AC, I would have wanted another 10hp to handle the extra weight, and compressor draw....others would be fine going slower, and wasting time with an under powered dog.

For someone who says you like your Kioti, it's hard to see how after reading your comments....it's like you hate the company.

 

[IslandTractor]

Did you guys ever see this Kioti brochure: http://www.rtmachinery.co.uk/images/kioti/Kioti_NX_brochure.pdf

It shows the NX4510/5010 having the same engine as the DK45/50 while the NX5510/6010 have the newer engine. I presume it must be a brochure intended for the non USA market. It does have more engine detail than any of the US specific brochures.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Bottom line here is that anyone buying a NX should have a REALLY good reason for buying anything other than the 4510. And, if you do decide to "upgrade", bring a tube of K-Y jelly with you to the dealership.

REALLY?? I didn't know I was spending your money or had to have a specific reason to buy something that I wanted, not sure why you think everyone only needs what size you say they need, that's just ridiculous. If the price differences in the nx models bothers you so much, why don't you contact a kioti rep and discuss your concerns.

 

[sd455dan]

For anybody interested in actual facts about fuel consumption for tractors of varying horsepower, but the same displacement, we can thank the Nebraska Tractor Test protocol for absolutely refuting the kinds of nonsense some folks claim.

The Deere 4x20 series all had the same engine setup....4 cylinder, 2.4L, turbo-charged engines. Three of the four were tested, with the following results:

4720 - 51.77hp PTO, and 3.3gal/hr.
4520 - 46.58hp PTO, and 3.0gal/hr.
4320 - 41.58hp PTO, and 2.9gal/hr.

For those really quick folks, you'll notice that the bigger engines made more horsepower for each gallon of fuel used per hour.

4720 was 15.68hp per gallon, per hour.
4520 was 15.52hp per gallon, per hour.
4320 was 14.33hp per gallon, per hour.

Yep, the 4720 was more efficient than the smaller engines. Dial it back to make the same power as the smaller engines, and the fuel consumption would be either identical, or so close as to be a non-factor. Even if you ran them at PTO speeds and "wasted" power because you sized your implements wrong, and it's still not going to add up to a massive difference for folks who use their CUT the typical 100-200 hours per year.

Go from the 4320 to the 4520, and you're going to "waste" 20 gallons per year if you ran at PTO speed all the time (200 hours which is on the high side), and didn't need to because your implements were the wrong size. In reality, you're not going to be at PTO speed all the time, so it's going to be less than that....holy, moly, it might be $30 a year or some other catastrophic figure!

great post

- i couldn't help but notice in that original Yanmar graph that was posted earlier,

it appears they had left out actual kg per hour fuel use at RPM ... Actual fuel use increases with higher RPM

 

[IslandTractor]

REALLY?? I didn't know I was spending your money or had to have a specific reason to buy something that I wanted, not sure why you think everyone only needs what size you say they need, that's just ridiculous. If the price differences in the nx models bothers you so much, why don't you contact a kioti rep and discuss your concerns.

No, you can spend your money anyway you choose. Buy the King Ranch and wear a big ole cowboy hat if it makes you feel good. What I am responding to is the fan boy attitude expressed by some here that "more HP is always better". If that was the impression of experienced users I would give it credence but the mo horsepower lobby here is largely coming from a relatively inexperienced user and may well mislead other new inexperienced tractor buyers. If you have a really good reason to need 60hp in a CUT frame then go for it. The vast majority of potential NX owners don't need that much power and are paying a silly premium for something they will rarely use and can easily do without. Remember the NX is simply the replacement for the DKse. Virtually none of the DK owners have ever complained about not having enough power and most of them have either 41 or 44 hp models. The loader, hydraulics, 3PT are all the same on all NX models. The only practical difference is PTO power.

We have someone here who has been posting about his NX6010 adventures for almost a year who enthusiastically endorses it but has a track record of breaking just about every implement he uses as well as damaging the tractor regularly. The damage he has done to his implements are almost certainly a direct result of using the extra PTO power of the NX6010. How else can you break a brand new medium duty bush hog within a week or so. How else can you break a heavy duty box blade? We also find out that he has probably never owned a tractor before and made his choices based on watching Youtube videos. Great. Is that really someone you want to take advice from????

How many people who bought NX4510s or DKse tractors are unhappy with their power? Virtually none if you use the discussions on TBN as a guide. So, take advice from a crash test newbie who self educated with Youtube or listen to the experience of people who have hundreds of hours of problem free experience with 40 and 45 hp Kioti tractors here on TBN. It's a free country.

I agree there are a few potential uses of 60hp in an NX frame. Those uses would essentially be limited to driving implements with PTO that can use that power. I haven't seen convincing evidence from anyone yet however and most of the "data" some folks have relied upon are literally based on watching Youtube videos. I believe one demonstration of the "need" for 60hp was based on watching a tractor using a rear snow blower and having a bit of difficulty at the beginning of the video. It becomes clear if you watch even that video, that the initial difficulty was related to "blowing" the piled up crusty frozen plowed ice on edge of the road and that once the blower reached clean snow it was blowing it 40feet without any issue. We hear that 45hp may not be enough for a stump grinder but then find out that dedicated stump grinding machines costing more than these tractors do utilize even smaller engines than the 45hp of the NX base model. Somebody mentioned needing extra HP to run a log splitter. That would be surprising to me given that most commercial stand alone log splitters use smaller engines than 45hp. I would certainly agree that anyone trying to run an 8ft bush hog or batwing mower could easily justify extra HP. Most people doing that sort of cutting regularly would probably opt for a utility size tractor but it would certainly make sense to get more HP if you were going to use a CUT. Same is true for running haying equipment, you might well justify more HP if you hay but you might also consider just a larger frame tractor which is the more common solution. Maybe you live in a hilly area and routinely tow a heavy trailer up hills, that might well be a reason to get more HP too. On the other hand, only a newbie would think that a 2mph increase in top end road speed is an important consideration in tractor selection.

I have stated earlier that Kioti is a marketing company. Obviously there is some hyperbole there as Daedong has developed tractors from scratch and has engineered fine engines and machines. Kioti USA however really is just a marketing company. They have almost no engineers on staff and focus only on marketing the tractors to the US audience. They have taken a lead from other companies in learning how to offer a very capable base tractor at a fair price and then enticing buyers to "upgrade" to expensive sibling models that offer very little extra. The Ford F150 XL hauls wood and trailers just as well as the King Ranch version. If you want to pay extra for rarely used power go ahead, just don't be fooled into thinking you might need that power based on the opinion of an over enthusiastic newbie.

How many are aware of the fact that the engines on these new NX tractors are essentially all the same but with different tuning? I don't believe anyone here really knows what the difference is between the engine variants. It is very hard to get any specific information about engine specs or performance from Kioti/Daedong. Frankly, it is rather shockingly difficult given that diesel engine manufacturers generally provide quite detailed information up front about ratings and differences between versions of the engine. Nobody here including myself has any detailed information about the engine variants. We don't even know whether these new engines are rated for continuous, medium or intermittent operation. Astonishing that Daedong doesn't make that information known. You can get that info on just about any other diesel engine made. It makes a difference. I for one would much prefer a medium duty rated engine to an intermittent duty engine in something like a tractor that hopefully will work for twenty years or more. I can easily understand other thoughts on that matter but cannot understand why Daedong hides the information from potential tractor buyers. I can understand why a marketing company might choose to ignore such details so they can avoid embarrassing questions about flash EPROMs.

I think a logical purchaser of a new NX should not be overly influenced by any single rah rah more horsepower opinion so I provide the counter argument. I actually like Kioti tractors a lot and consider them, along with Mahindra, to be the very best values on the market. The "top" horsepower models of Kioti tractors are generally less good value than their highly capable base models. Shop around for opinions and experience and consider who is giving the advice before making your selection.

 

[IslandTractor]

REALLY?? I didn't know I was spending your money or had to have a specific reason to buy something that I wanted, not sure why you think everyone only needs what size you say they need, that's just ridiculous. If the price differences in the nx models bothers you so much, why don't you contact a kioti rep and discuss your concerns.

No, you can spend your money anyway you choose. Buy the King Ranch and wear a big ole cowboy hat if it makes you feel good. What I am responding to is the fan boy attitude expressed by some here that "more HP is always better". If that was the impression of experienced users I would give it credence but the mo horsepower lobby here is largely coming from a relatively inexperienced user and may well mislead other new inexperienced tractor buyers. If you have a really good reason to need 60hp in a CUT frame then go for it. The vast majority of potential NX owners don't need that much power and are paying a silly premium for something they will rarely use and can easily do without. Remember the NX is simply the replacement for the DKse. Virtually none of the DK owners have ever complained about not having enough power and most of them have either 41 or 44 hp models. The loader, hydraulics, 3PT are all the same on all NX models. The only practical difference is PTO power.

We have someone here who has been posting about his NX6010 adventures for almost a year who enthusiastically endorses it but has a track record of breaking just about every implement he uses as well as damaging the tractor regularly. The damage he has done to his implements are almost certainly a direct result of using the extra PTO power of the NX6010. How else can you break a brand new medium duty bush hog within a week or so. How else can you break a heavy duty box blade? We also find out that he has probably never owned a tractor before and made his choices based on watching Youtube videos. Great. Is that really someone you want to take advice from????

How many people who bought NX4510s or DKse tractors are unhappy with their power? Virtually none if you use the discussions on TBN as a guide. So, take advice from a crash test newbie who self educated with Youtube or listen to the experience of people who have hundreds of hours of problem free experience with 40 and 45 hp Kioti tractors here on TBN. It's a free country.

I agree there are a few potential uses of 60hp in an NX frame. Those uses would essentially be limited to driving implements with PTO that can use that power. I haven't seen convincing evidence from anyone yet however and most of the "data" some folks have relied upon are literally based on watching Youtube videos. I believe one demonstration of the "need" for 60hp was based on watching a tractor using a rear snow blower and having a bit of difficulty at the beginning of the video. It becomes clear if you watch even that video, that the initial difficulty was related to "blowing" the piled up crusty frozen plowed ice on edge of the road and that once the blower reached clean snow it was blowing it 40feet without any issue. We hear that 45hp may not be enough for a stump grinder but then find out that dedicated stump grinding machines costing more than these tractors do utilize even smaller engines than the 45hp of the NX base model. Somebody mentioned needing extra HP to run a log splitter. That would be surprising to me given that most commercial stand alone log splitters use smaller engines than 45hp. I would certainly agree that anyone trying to run an 8ft bush hog or batwing mower could easily justify extra HP. Most people doing that sort of cutting regularly would probably opt for a utility size tractor but it would certainly make sense to get more HP if you were going to use a CUT. Same is true for running haying equipment, you might well justify more HP if you hay but you might also consider just a larger frame tractor which is the more common solution. Maybe you live in a hilly area and routinely tow a heavy trailer up hills, that might well be a reason to get more HP too. On the other hand, only a newbie would think that a 2mph increase in top end road speed is an important consideration in tractor selection.

I have stated earlier that Kioti is a marketing company. Obviously there is some hyperbole there as Daedong has developed tractors from scratch and has engineered fine engines and machines. Kioti USA however really is just a marketing company. They have almost no engineers on staff and focus only on marketing the tractors to the US audience. They have taken a lead from other companies in learning how to offer a very capable base tractor at a fair price and then enticing buyers to "upgrade" to expensive sibling models that offer very little extra. The Ford F150 XL hauls wood and trailers just as well as the King Ranch version. If you want to pay extra for rarely used power go ahead, just don't be fooled into thinking you might need that power based on the opinion of an over enthusiastic newbie.

How many are aware of the fact that the engines on these new NX tractors are essentially all the same but with different tuning? I don't believe anyone here really knows what the difference is between the engine variants. It is very hard to get any specific information about engine specs or performance from Kioti/Daedong. Frankly, it is rather shockingly difficult given that diesel engine manufacturers generally provide quite detailed information up front about ratings and differences between versions of the engine. Nobody here including myself has any detailed information about the engine variants. We don't even know whether these new engines are rated for continuous, medium or intermittent operation. Astonishing that Daedong doesn't make that information known. You can get that info on just about any other diesel engine made. It makes a difference. I for one would much prefer a medium duty rated engine to an intermittent duty engine in something like a tractor that hopefully will work for twenty years or more. I can easily understand other thoughts on that matter but cannot understand why Daedong hides the information from potential tractor buyers. I can understand why a marketing company might choose to ignore such details so they can avoid embarrassing questions about flash EPROMs.

I think a logical purchaser of a new NX should not be overly influenced by any single rah rah more horsepower opinion so I provide the counter argument. I actually like Kioti tractors a lot and consider them, along with Mahindra, to be the very best values on the market. The "top" horsepower models of Kioti tractors are generally less good value than their highly capable base models. Shop around for opinions and experience and consider who is giving the advice before making your selection.