Kubota B3350 tractor regeneration problems

[GreenCamo]

Mahindra - 5 facilities in USA - also some made in Japan by Mitsubishi for Mahindra.

Mahindra Announces 5th North American Facility | Mahindra

Have you read the press release? What do they do at this "facility"? They certainly don't produce anything. Of course they need distribution centers as well as assembly areas for everything being shipped in. There is not a CUT manufacturer that manufactures the tractor portion here in the US. Assembles yes, not manufactures. Loaders and other implements - yes for manufactured here, not the tractors.

You say the other poster has an uninformed bias against Mahindra, and he may well have. But I believe you may have drunk too much of the Mahindra Red (or pink after exposure to too many UV rays) kool aid...

 

[oldpilgrim]

Follow the link for kubota and see what their facilities are. You can ask the same question of them.

I havent drunk too much of the kool aid. I just know what I have and like it. I'd recommend it to anyone.

 

[liteship]

Kubota recommends warm up time for both the B3350 and B2650. The hydraulics will not work properly without proper warm up. With my now returned B3350, I occasionally experienced a situation where the throttle arm did not operate and attribute that to hydraulics not warmed up enough. The operating manual is the same for both the B3350 and B2650. The manual includes a range chart for warm up recommendations, and calls for at least 5 minutes for 32F and above and 15 minutes or more or -4F and below and various gradations in between. I know not everyone lives in cold temperatures like Maine where I live, But I can assure you that I always use my block heater overnight when we have -20F, and warm up after startup is at least 15 minutes. One other thing. Kubota does caution against cold operation as lack of warm up can cause potential damage.

 

[landedakioti]

As noted in my earlier message, I had significant issues with a new B3350. After 4 regeneration failures within 9 months and approximately 30 days of this at the dealer for repair, I concluded that for my purposes this tractor was a lemon with no permanent fix in sight. The dealer could offer no encouragement, but was willing to continue his efforts at repair. I could not accept this. Let me back up here and say that I have no complaints with the dealer. He did everything he could with a faulty product. After hearing of my dissatisfaction,I believe he contacted the Kubota people. Apparently they agreed that since there was no fix in sight for my B3350, they would offer me a new B2650 with a partial credit to make up the difference in price. I did after all get some use out of the B3350. I did accept this, and so far am pleased with the performance of the B2650. I have used it with the snowblower a couple of times. Let me add a couple of observations. They did not offer to replace my B3350 with another B3350, and I probably would not have accepted it in any event with the knowledge of my own experience. Confidence and reliability are big deals in my world, and I lost confidence in this product. Also, Maine has very strong consumer protection laws that I believe would have covered me with this product. I kept this in my back pocket in case I needed to use it, which I did not. I probably could have demanded a full refund, but I wanted a tractor. Let me reiterate. The dealer, his service and transportation people were all excellent. They did the best for me that they could, and I'm sure they were nearly as frustrated with this B3350 as I was.. The B2650 is supposedly a less powerful tractor, but I have not yet noticed any difference. I'll let you know in the future if I do. Liteship

I'm thankful maine has a great lemon law it got me out of kioti tractor. Into a kubota that works and a great dealer.

 

[namesray]

Kubota recommends warm up time for both the B3350 and B2650. The hydraulics will not work properly without proper warm up. With my now returned B3350, I occasionally experienced a situation where the throttle arm did not operate and attribute that to hydraulics not warmed up enough. The operating manual is the same for both the B3350 and B2650. The manual includes a range chart for warm up recommendations, and calls for at least 5 minutes for 32F and above and 15 minutes or more or -4F and below and various gradations in between. I know not everyone lives in cold temperatures like Maine where I live, But I can assure you that I always use my block heater overnight when we have -20F, and warm up after startup is at least 15 minutes. One other thing. Kubota does caution against cold operation as lack of warm up can cause potential damage.

Ok. That is the same warm up times my tier 3 kubotas state. With a block heater and kubotas new super udt2, semi synthetic hyd oil, I have cut my warm up time way down from what I use to do. (Getting in practice for my new much larger mx5200 that is comming). I agree that -20*f would require warm up time. Do you place at mid throttle for warm up or leave rpms idled all the way down low?

Diesels dont generate much heat at low idle and I have been told this messes with the regen systems. So run throttle up a bit if you are to leave it run or shut it off. Dealer told me he seen many more issues with owners who idle their tractor a lot as compared to owners who shut tractor off.

Now I am not saying its owners fault and I am not saying that kubota doesnt need to get their act together. I just went through a hush hush recall on mx5200 engines blowing up luckily before I got it delivered. Dealer didnt know about it and I have been told kubota has known about it for a year. Dealer was great in tracking down the knowlege and upgrade, but when I called kubota corp to get the low down before I notified dealer, I was less then impressed with how I was told the issue was being handled.

I have always bled kubota orange when it comes to tractors/equipment. But I agree as said by a few others, they had better get their act together or I might start bleeding red or blue as I have noticed kubotas more recent equipment has been slipping in quality and reliability. Proof in point, about a year ago if you loaded the kubota owining, operating formn here on tbn, you saw very few members with major issues and mostly just posts about how they like their kubota or how they wanted to add an attachment or such. Load that same page today and you see a lot more major problems with kubota and less owners posting how they like their new kubota or what they want to add to it.

 

[tk tom]

I can't think of a single complaint on my 2650. Maybe the loader control can be a little further away from the treadle pedal, in the winter with bulky clothes/boots on the bucket curl function is impeded by my leg when reversing. I feel bad for those who bought the 3350's, I almost did but can't agree with the price difference. I pay for features in a tractor/vehicle/etc. The regen stuff is not a feature but rather a requirement, I don't feel the need to pay extra for something that doesn't add to the tractor's value. 7HP is not worth $5k+ to me, they're charging for all the other tier IV crap.

In another month or so I'll be headed back to the dealer to pick up a new box blade, I'll ask while I'm there if they are willing to part with any information on issues pertaining to the 3350's they've sold.

I'd recommend a 2650 to anyone with a 3350 having problems and they offer a replacement.

 

[s219]

I feel bad for those who bought the 3350's, I almost did but can't agree with the price difference. I pay for features in a tractor/vehicle/etc. The regen stuff is not a feature but rather a requirement, I don't feel the need to pay extra for something that doesn't add to the tractor's value. 7HP is not worth $5k+ to me, they're charging for all the other tier IV crap.

Agree 100%. That must make it all the more annoying for those who paid extra to run into these hassles.

 

[oldpilgrim]

One other thing. Kubota does caution against cold operation as lack of warm up can cause potential damage.

Can anyone explain to me what the damage might be? I can''t see that it could harm anything any more than a car engine would be damaged without a 'proper' warmup period.

I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, I just want to know why a long warmup is 'needed'.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Mahindra - 5 facilities in USA - also some made in Japan by Mitsubishi for Mahindra.

Mahindra Announces 5th North American Facility | Mahindra


Kubota - 5 facilities in USA also made in Japan

Kubota Tractor Corporation - Kubota Careers

Lets be clear here. Mahindra's "Factory" is actually dealers who happen to do setup work for other dealers. I know one of them well. They don't build anything, they bolt on tires and implements. Its a great concept really, because it means their marginal dealer network does not need experienced techs for doing delivery prep. Its nothing like Kubota's KMA\KIE, etc who actually build equipment. Mahindra is very loose with terms to cast an image of themselves, if you go by their definition... I guess our dealership is a factory too .


As for whats happening with these tractors, As I understand, the issue is the reformer system is not working properly at extreme temperatures. There was a problem with some of the parts that where used. When these first started tricking into the shop the parts that where in inventory to fix the problem where also bad, so some of these are coming in for a 2 or 3rd time because the parts supply needed updated. This is an issue on both the B3350 and F3990 that use the same reformer system. The warming weather should buy us some time to get this fixed properly. It was a brutal winter for Tier 4 across all brands this year. I may have screwed up some of these details, we're buying another store so I've not been in much lately.

 

[NC Plotter]

I'm not trying to disagree with you, but I live in NC, and my first Regen failed at 65 degrees. Clearly not due to ambient temperatures. Dealer is picking it up this afternoon.

As far as the purchasing decision, the 2650 was never on my radar. I was looking for a ~35HP tractor give or take, and so the B3350 and L3301 were my two main options. Along with the E-series green tractors. The B3350 had all of the power of the L3301 with better features, less weight, a tighter turning radius, easier to trailer, etc. For my uses around the house and creating small food plots in the woods, the smaller (deluxe) package seemed like the better choice. However, I didn't hear a word about any problems with Tier IV. My dealer mentioned that he had a L3200/3800 still, but when I asked him about Tier III vs. Tier IV, and what advantage the former might have, he just chalked it up to personal preference and the possibility of a minute power loss. He never mentioned anything about the problems they have been having. I called them Saturday and the first thing the guy said was, "Yeah, we have another one in the shop right now for the same thing." I would like to give the dealer the benefit of the doubt and assume he wasn't aware of the issues at the time I asked the question. It wasn't going to prevent me from buying, just which model I was buying.

 

[NC Plotter]

I understand the first step is to upgrade/update the ECU and install a new thermostat. Can you guys give me a good idea of what the steps are to fix this, and what step #2,3,4 is ? I would like to be a little more informed of the possible solutions, so that I can work with the dealer to get it fixed right.

As far as idle time, I idled it some in the first 11 hours, but not excessively. Either way, that might increase the frequency for regeneration, but should have no bearing on the success of regeneration. When the auto-regen light came on, I made sure to increase the RPMs as the manual indicates.

 

[Deerherd]

I understand the first step is to upgrade/update the ECU and install a new thermostat. Can you guys give me a good idea of what the steps are to fix this, and what step #2,3,4 is ? I would like to be a little more informed of the possible solutions, so that I can work with the dealer to get it fixed right.

As far as idle time, I idled it some in the first 11 hours, but not excessively. Either way, that might increase the frequency for regeneration, but should have no bearing on the success of regeneration. When the auto-regen light came on, I made sure to increase the RPMs as the manual indicates.

You shouldn't be worried about steps 2,3 and 4. The whole reason you buy a new tractor is so you DON'T waste your time working on a "repair plan." If it didn't come back FIXED the first time I would do what liteship did and get a different model or color. Too many good ones to put up with that bull.

 

[liteship]

To NC Plotter:

I think you and I are fairly like minded in trying to deal with this issue. I like the dealer and wanted to give him every opportunity to repair the B3350.

I purchased the tractor in May. The problem first appeared in August. From August through the end of February they had to return this tractor 4 times for repair. Each time they replaced or reprogrammed something until they had tried everything out there. At this point, I lost confidence in the product, and no matter what they did, I had no confidence in the long term operation of the tractor. My fear became what happens after the 2 year warranty runs out. If this tractor continued to malfunction, I'd go broke trying to keep it going.

 

[s219]

I'm not trying to disagree with you, but I live in NC, and my first Regen failed at 65 degrees. Clearly not due to ambient temperatures. Dealer is picking it up this afternoon.

As far as the purchasing decision, the 2650 was never on my radar. I was looking for a ~35HP tractor give or take, and so the B3350 and L3301 were my two main options. Along with the E-series green tractors. The B3350 had all of the power of the L3301 with better features, less weight, a tighter turning radius, easier to trailer, etc. For my uses around the house and creating small food plots in the woods, the smaller (deluxe) package seemed like the better choice. However, I didn't hear a word about any problems with Tier IV. My dealer mentioned that he had a L3200/3800 still, but when I asked him about Tier III vs. Tier IV, and what advantage the former might have, he just chalked it up to personal preference and the possibility of a minute power loss. He never mentioned anything about the problems they have been having. I called them Saturday and the first thing the guy said was, "Yeah, we have another one in the shop right now for the same thing." I would like to give the dealer the benefit of the doubt and assume he wasn't aware of the issues at the time I asked the question. It wasn't going to prevent me from buying, just which model I was buying.

Well, the L3200 and L3800 were Tier IV also, but Tier IV "Interim" whereas the L3301/L3901 (and B3350) are Tier IV "Final". So your dealer wouldn't have been able to say anything about Tier III on those tractors since they were never Tier III.

Personally, I do not view the B3350 in the same ballpark as the L series or an honest 35HP tractor -- it's really the most deluxe version of the smaller B lineup. It does have a lot of power, but it's not as usable as the same amount of power in a larger heavier package. So this is one of those cases where I think the B3350 is a bit of a odd bird in the lineup, and the 2650 is really the sweet spot. I sort of felt the same way about models in the previous generation -- there was a B3200, but price wise it was within $50-100 of an L3200 at my dealer, and just didn't make sense.

I think the real appeal of the B3350 is for a buyer who wants a lot of deluxe features at that price point, which an L series can't deliver. And to me, if you are coughing up all that extra money over the B2650, it better be a darn good tractor. The DPF/regen problems are just a big slap in the face for people that paid extra for the 3350.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

It does have a lot of power, but it's not as usable as the same amount of power in a larger heavier package. So this is one of those cases where I think the B3350 is a bit of a odd bird in the lineup, and the 2650 is really the sweet spot.

The cab version adds to the mix here. You do need the extra engine HP to run the A/C and stuff. The B2650 cab can be marginal on power in some applications.. A/C cab + 72" mid mower on 26Hp is a possible configuration.. but probably not a great idea.

 

[ljvsdk51]

Kubota is well aware of the problems that have occurred with the Reformer regeneration system that was originally installed in the B3350 tractor series and after thorough research, Kubota released a service bulletin on 10/09/2014 (and just updated in January 2015) announcing a mandatory campaign to correct the problems, with a list of all B3350 serial numbers that are affected, and depending upon the serial number, what level of action the dealer is required to take. Depending upon what category your serial number falls into, the remedial actions required can be as simple as reprogramming the ECU (engine control unit), to actually replacing the entire Reformer DPF assembly with the new model Reformer DPF assembly that was redesigned to correct the issues and the one being installed on all current production B3350 tractors, starting at serial number 60000.

 

[NC Plotter]

^Thanks for the info. Mine is in the low 50000 serial # range. Do you happen to know which category that falls under?

 

[ljvsdk51]

^Thanks for the info. Mine is in the low 50000 serial # range. Do you happen to know which category that falls under?

The only way to really answer your question would be to know your exact serial number and then compare it to the Break Charts in the Kubota service bulletin to find out what steps the dealer is required to take for your specific tractor. Your dealer should be working from Kubota Service Bulletin #PSB-2014-060-A (which they can download from the dealer portal of the Kubota website). If your serial number is listed in the Break A chart, the dealer needs to reprogram the ECU and replace your thermostat, after that they need to hook up a diagnostic tool and perform a detailed regeneration check (the check procedures are described in detail in this bulletin). If the regeneration check is successful, then you are good to go. If the regeneration check fails then your tractor is supposed to get a complete new Reformer DPF assembly installed. Serial numbers in the Break B chart get an ECU reprogram and a new thermostat and that's it. Serial numbers in the Break C chart are not supposed to need their ECU reprogrammed and already have the correct thermostat. The dealer is supposed to go straight to step 3 and hook up the diagnostic tool and run a regeneration system check. If the system check fails, then the Reformer DPF assembly is supposed to be replaced. There is also one other item that only applies to B3350's equipped with the full factory cold-weather cab, and that is to confirm that the unit is equipped with a 75 amp alternator (the first cab units produced had a smaller amp output alternator, I don't recall the size, but with the smaller alternator, in cold weather when all cab electrical accessories were being used - heater, wipers, etc - the DC voltage supply to the Reformer would drop well below 12 VDC, which would cause it to malfunction)

 

[Piper792]

I agree with this, I wonder "if' a new unaware buyer will be told about this issue when he/she is in the market and their told, " don't worry, it's being handled'.

No, the dealer isn't letting the buyers know the issues with the 3350. I went to two dealers yesterday and they never mentioned it.

This sucks I have used my buddies 3030 and loved it. That is what sold me on Kubota. I was hoping to get into this tractor soon but after reading all the issue forget it. If I am going to drop 30k on a 3350 cab it better not have issues like this.

 

[NC Plotter]

Just to give an update: My dealer took in my tractor for service along with another B3350 that they had sold sometime in the last year. They were consecutive serial #'s. Apparently they had just got done "fixing" this other tractor when I called with my problem. After talking with them and discussing the service bulletin, break charts, etc. over a few days time, they said that they had just found an attachment to the service bulletin that wasn't there before.:roll eyes: The service manager said that it was just sent out that week by Kubota, but I suspect that it was there all along, and they just missed it. That was the part that outlined the service repair schedule and that the reformer would need to be replaced. What they should have done on the other guy's machine when they had it the week before, "fixing" it. They brought both machines back in for service.

The short story is they called Kubota and had a Kubota technician there to walk them through replacing the reformer, replacing the dozer assembly, performing the ECU upgrade, installing a new thermostat, etc. They got it done fairly quickly, and got the machine back to me with 17 hours on it (it had around 12 at the first failed auto-regen). At 32.4 hours it performed it's first successful auto-regen without complication. It took about 25-30 minutes though, and obviously I had to leave it running at high RPM during that time. At this point, it looks like Kubota has finally arrived at a solution for the problem. Hopefully that is the case, and I won't have any more problems out of it. Time will tell.

Certainly if I was interested in this model or any other model with Tier IV emissions, I would thoroughly grill the dealer on any "mandatory campaigns" or updates that need to be performed.