A safer alternative to Roundup

[TomSeller]

You could probably get buckwheat established pretty easily. It requires warmer temps to germinate and unless you get some really hot summer temps than sun hemp could be an option.

Does it reseed itself to where you can't get rid of it?

 

[super55]

Does it reseed itself to where you can't get rid of it?

As long as you cut it during bloom or before that you shouldn't have an issue with volunteer buckwheat after planting it. With Sun Hemp you really need to cut it once it gets about 2 or 3 feet tall max. Otherwise the stalks become really fibrous and stringy and it is really difficult to get the stuff to mulch down properly.

I use buckwheat a lot for prepping my fall food plots for deer during the summer months. It is quick to establish, readily grows when other plants don't do so well and is relatively cheap. For my fall plot than I will just broadcast brassicas into the stand, fertilize and then go over the buckwheat with the flail mower. It's leaves a nice clean weed free mulch bed to hold water to help the brassicas get established. I used to conventional plant my brassicas but its way too easy to plant those little bitty seeds too deep and not get a good stand. Going this route has allowed me to completely eliminate having to spray the plot prior to planting.

 

[TomSeller]

I use both roundup and crossbow, but try to spot use them due to cost and the fact that I don't like to be around herbicides and pesticides any more than necessary. I don't really see any way to not use herbicides with as many invasive plants as there are these days. Don't get me started on the people that spread wildflowers by the roadside, they are a big part of the problem. I don't use either in the garden areas.

 

[RalphVa]

Dave seems to have some good science.

Think any glyphosate problems are associated with GMO or Round-up Ready crops and not glyphosate itself. Any excess glyphosate not absorbed by plant leaves goes into the soil and is complexed with clay soil (don't know about pure sandy soils). So, excess doesn't go to streams from rainfall like happens with so many other herbicides.

Glyphosate has been associated with causing celiac disease, but, again, it's probably the relationship with the GMO stuff and not glyphosate by itself. I really don't know the facts of this finding.

I WOULD NOT USE GRAZON. Grazon Extra Herbicide contains the active ingredients Triclopyr, Picloram and Aminopyralid, which have activity on a range of broadleaf weeds. These pyridine herbicides can persist for YEARS in cow manure and compost from it. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS material to any broadleaf plants that unstirred manure and compost is applied to vegetable gardens.

At the extension office, we greatly warn people to find out where any compost or cow manure material has come from before using it. Even straw on which pyridine herbicide has been used will kill plants if it is fairly fresh and not exposed to oxygen very long. We've had clients who have bought such straw.

Ralph

 

[deerefan]

I went to talk to a lady that wants me to reseed her pastures. She has moved her horses to my place and doesn't want to take care of horses anymore. Her meadows as she called them are beat up pretty bad. Nothing but weeds left after 2 years of keeping horses on them.

I don't do this for a living but have had good success at my place establishing pasture. The trick is to keep them off of it in the winter and whenever gets wet. I have searched on here about Roundup and there doesn't seem to be much on TBN about NOT using Roundup.

When I suggested we burn it off this summer before I start planting she freaked. Roundup causes cancer in lab rats in Cal. No no no that is nasty stuff. She sent me an article about how bad it is. But it also said that without roundup America would starve to death.

So what is a better substitute to use. My research shows vinegar and Dawn soap. But some say this is very limited to killing anything. There is about 8 acres to do. Anybody have any suggestions?

I run a similar operation to you but actually did this to myself-overgrazed pastures. I revived mine with no weed killers. I pulled the horses off and put the pasture on a monthly bushhogging schedule and fertilized 3 times a year.. After about a year of bushogging and triple 13 fertilizer, the bahia grass eventually took back over. Now we rotate and the pastures are better. There may be a few weeds here or there, but definitely not in the majority. I do use roundup around the house and on my fence lines.

 

[paulharvey]

I run a similar operation to you but actually did this to myself-overgrazed pastures. I revived mine with no weed killers. I pulled the horses off and put the pasture on a monthly bushhogging schedule and fertilized 3 times a year.. After about a year of bushogging and triple 13 fertilizer, the bahia grass eventually took back over. Now we rotate and the pastures are better. There may be a few weeds here or there, but definitely not in the majority. I do use roundup around the house and on my fence lines.

Did you do soil samples? I wouldn't think most field grasses really need 13-13-13; I would have thought some Urea (46-0-0) and maybe a blended P and K would have been more suited.

 

[Sodo]

Roundup has the lion's share of the market so competitors need to take them down.
If there were a better product you would be seeing the adds everywhere.

I bet this is what's happening with Roundup, a competitive chemical wants part of the pie. But keep in mind a large chemical company has had the money to squelch opposition and legislation "For Decades", and prevent federal food safety regulations against it. There could be many safer options but farm profitability and productivity (and legislation) drives the market, health safety is a ways down the list with many farmers and most large agribuisiness. Roundup's one of the safer chemicals I think. It's worth watching these issues (unless you couldn't care less about your grandchildren).

Some other chemicals get fast-tracked thru, like "Milestone", it just takes money (=lobbyists). Milestone comes out of the other end of a horse unchanged, to the point where horse manure used in a food plot will kill the broadleafs for years (tomatoes for example). Aminopyralid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[deerefan]

Did you do soil samples? I wouldn't think most field grasses really need 13-13-13; I would have thought some Urea (46-0-0) and maybe a blended P and K would have been more suited.

No soil samples taken. In using a few different applications, we found 13 provided the best overall results. In the winter, we disc a couple pastured for rye grass. Once discing is done, we seed and apply triple 13 then recover. Once grass hits a height of about 3-5 inches, we top dress with pelletized urea. The triple 13 helps the grass come up quicker from what we have found. It is a good all around fertilizer for our area.

 

[mx1alex]

After we bought our land we decided to restore (re-establish) Iowa prairie. To do so we no till planted RR soy beans and then sprayed it with round up to kill all grass and weeds. Since we wanted to place the land in CRP we decided to maintain crop for number of years to qualify. Third year of doing so we got soy seed contaminated with RoundUp resistant pig weed which basically chocked the beans that we hardly broke even. You can google RoundUp resistant weed. There are many articles on internet about the issue. Farmers Face Tough Choice On Ways To Fight New Strains Of Weeds : The Salt : NPR.
We tried to kill it by discing it twice, mowing etc. Discing "woke up" many other weed seeds laying dormant in the soil. In other words the prairie restoration is a total failure. The weeds are dense enough now that I am hoping we could burn it next spring and see what will happen. But seems to me that deer, turkeys, quails and pheasants don't mind it because they congregate on the land in higher numbers than before.

Resistant weeds is the fault of the farmer, not that of the chemical. Monsanto has preached for years to mix and rotate modes of action to prevent the development of resistant weeds. But it's too easy cheap for some farmers to just use glyphosate and they ruin it for everybody else.

 

[Walkin Horse]

I have been using Trimec on some weeds. It is a 2-4-D based product. Do all these 2-4-D products pass thru the horse and contaminate the manure?