actual use of tier 4
- Thread starter bwalley
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coolnature
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Congrats, Christmas in July!
Coyote machine
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FWIW, here's a link to an article from Compact Equipment Magazine about Tier 4 realities vs. myths.
MTU debunks myths of Tier 4 Final diesel engine technology
MTU debunks myths of Tier 4 Final diesel engine technology
The Deerslayer
Platinum Member
Thanks CM!
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
IMO. I'd be very concerned about this. A DPF can go though about 200 regens before it needs replaced. 4-5 hours is the lowest i have ever heard. Typical around here is 30, lowest I have heard was 15 from low idle loader work.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
FYI. Its called a DOC. "Diesel Oxidation Catalyst" basically a catalytic converter. Its 90% the same hardware as a DPF but it does not burn. It does this by capturing soot and running the engine really hot to clean up the exhaust. It has its own long list of draw backs and concerns. It just make a good marketing bullet point to say it does not regen.
countrybumpkin
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I've had two auto regens on mine in 50 hrs, the first was around 10-12 hrs if I remember right, but those hrs were a lot of start and stoping, and low rpm usage around the shop the rest have been pretty much normal higher rpm usage. Other than the dash light coming on, I noticed no difference while using it.
MinnesotaEric
Super Member
A utility tractor spends most of its life idling, and with throttle matching, these machines are continually revving up and throttling down while doing utility work, plugging our DPFs. I suspect that DPFs will only be around for a couple of years before customers shoot the OEMs for making them.
Hopefully our NX ECUs (and anybody else hoping to enjoy a lasting relationship with the tier IVb) aren't smart enough to throw the management system into a limp home mode if the reference voltage off of the pressure differential sensor never changes.
That said, the DPF do make the tractor much quieter, and it is nice that they don't smoke on acceleration or while under load.
IXLR8
Veteran Member
I see what I believe to be a little bit of misinformation/misunderstanding in this thread. DPF/regens are to take care of the particles/soot from the diesel fuel burn. The use of DEF fluid or EGR, depending on manufacturer design, is to clean up the NOx emissions. Different techniques to clean up different emission "issues".
Effectively cleaning a DPF depends on the filter design, some are designed to be cleaned, others are almost impossible. There are shops around now to clean up DPF's for the truckers as apparently most of theirs are designed to be cleaned. Some car folks have sent theirs in to be cleaned and have been told that due to the design of their DPF... they can't be reliably cleaned. Due to EPA regulations, OEM's don't have much choice but to use DEF's to clean up the soot. The more HP an engine produces, the more the need for DEF. Hopefully soon somebody will find a better way around this issue, but until then... we are stuck with them.
My 2012 VW TDI uses EGR, DPF w/regens and DEF fluid, I like how clean and smell free the car runs. I had to replace a part in the exhaust that had about 65K miles on it... I was surprised to find virtually no soot on that part at all after all those miles. My issue with the new systems is how expensive replacing parts in the emission systems is.
Effectively cleaning a DPF depends on the filter design, some are designed to be cleaned, others are almost impossible. There are shops around now to clean up DPF's for the truckers as apparently most of theirs are designed to be cleaned. Some car folks have sent theirs in to be cleaned and have been told that due to the design of their DPF... they can't be reliably cleaned. Due to EPA regulations, OEM's don't have much choice but to use DEF's to clean up the soot. The more HP an engine produces, the more the need for DEF. Hopefully soon somebody will find a better way around this issue, but until then... we are stuck with them.
My 2012 VW TDI uses EGR, DPF w/regens and DEF fluid, I like how clean and smell free the car runs. I had to replace a part in the exhaust that had about 65K miles on it... I was surprised to find virtually no soot on that part at all after all those miles. My issue with the new systems is how expensive replacing parts in the emission systems is.
Coyote machine
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You're welcome. Hope it helps some get a better understanding of what is actually the case.
BTW, tractor ECUs throwing codes and going to limp home mode is entirely possible, especially since lots more complex machines, like outboard motors, have been doing this since forever.
To me, Tier four final is just one more complex system mandated into place to do something that is beneficial in concept and likely, (time will tell), to become one more nightmare to end users, because of the US's putting off for decades what needed to be done to find/create vehicles that could get decent mileage out of something other than filthy dirty fuels, like diesel, and other fossil fuels. We've basically failed to accomplish this and now we're band-aiding everything to get us through to the next level.
Ten years from now you can bet things will be different; but we don't know yet what that will look like. I clearly can't say what the future will bring, BUT I can say, piling on band-aids will not work long term.