Ford 1920 will not go into gear

MOTractor · Aug 4, 2015

I have a 1994 Ford 1920 FWD SSS, which suddenly stopped going into gear. By suddenly I mean it worked one evening but not the next. It has 2200 hours. I did a forum search and did not find anything. The stuck clutch problem did not seem to apply although I may be wrong about that!

I cannot shift into forward or reverse and 1st 4th at the same time. It is either one or the other - not both. I can engage / disengage PTO with no problems or grinding.

I have adjusted the clutch free travel to about 7/8? As a test I took it down to about 1/2" to see if that would help. It did not. It was about 1-3/4 before I adjusted. Operator manual says range is ｾ - 1-3/16.

It does not grind the gears, just will not go into gear. When I try to shift into gear, I can feel the tractor move slightly in the direction the shuttle is in. If I push a bit harder than I probably should the tractor will roll an inch or so with the clutch pushed in.

Do not know if it matters, but the fluids are topped off.

Could I have a shuttle / shifter linkage adjustment issue? If so, how do I adjust? I did not see an adjustment in the operator manual. I looked in the service manual, but I may have missed it.

Any ideas?

John

MOTractor · Aug 6, 2015

A question about my question above. I posted it a couple days ago...

Did I word it badly so you can't figure out what I am asking? Odd problem no one has seen? ( I hope not that!) Or have I posted it in the wrong forum?

John

Fawken · Aug 6, 2015

I'm no pro on transmissions and thankfully tractor transmissions are mostly overbuilt. Hence, most members here haven't dealt with them perhaps explaining the lack of responses???? Sounds like a shifter fork or shifter rod. Do you have a service manual? The one I have only covers the 1900. They show 2 shift levers on the top plate which would be where I would start.However, the manual cautions to remove the detent plugs, springs and balls BEFORE removing the plate. Says to use a magnet to extract the balls or they could / will fall into the transmission! I would suggest getting a service manual before proceeding.

jimmysisson · Aug 7, 2015

Does sound like the clutch is not releasing. Gears in these are synchro, so you may be feeling the engine trying to move the tractor just by the synchros starting to engage.
Something broken in linkage, broke T.O. bearing or clutch fingers? Double check free play at pedal, tho it sounds right as is.
Jim

MOTractor · Sep 1, 2015

Sorry it took me so long to reply, life got in the way

I spoke to a local dealer/service center and they would not give me anything that even looked like an estimate for clutch replacement. Said they would leave me enough for lunch money... He said that it sounded like the release bearing (throw-out bearing) had worn and pushed through the clutch fingers. Does that sound right? Is there a way to confirm that?

Fawken said:
I'm no pro on transmissions and thankfully tractor transmissions are mostly overbuilt. Hence, most members here haven't dealt with them perhaps explaining the lack of responses???? Sounds like a shifter fork or shifter rod. Do you have a service manual? The one I have only covers the 1900. They show 2 shift levers on the top plate which would be where I would start.However, the manual cautions to remove the detent plugs, springs and balls BEFORE removing the plate. Says to use a magnet to extract the balls or they could / will fall into the transmission! I would suggest getting a service manual before proceeding.

Yes I do have a service, well the front cover calls it a "repair manual" and mine does not have any warning about the detent, springs or balls - thank you!

jimmysisson said:
Does sound like the clutch is not releasing. Gears in these are synchro, so you may be feeling the engine trying to move the tractor just by the synchros starting to engage. Something broken in linkage, broke T.O. bearing or clutch fingers? Double check free play at pedal, tho it sounds right as is.
Jim

I did check the free play, still set at about 7/8. Are the clutch forks under the top cover?

Thank you!

Fawken · Sep 1, 2015

It seems to me from reading your post that you are able to start the machine, push in the clutch, and put it into gear? This is the part that confuses me:
"I cannot shift into forward or reverse and 1st 4th at the same time. It is either one or the other - not both."
My service manual covers up to the 1900 and your model is going to have a few deviations from the original 1900 Shibaura. It may be worth getting a repair shop to diagnose the actual problem and getting an exact estimate. Then you can make a decision on how to proceed.

MOTractor · Sep 1, 2015

Fawken said:
It seems to me from reading your post that you are able to start the machine, push in the clutch, and put it into gear? This is the part that confuses me:
"I cannot shift into forward or reverse and 1st 4th at the same time. It is either one or the other - not both."

It is confusing!

-I can crank and start the tractor, no problems.
-I can also engage the PTO and it spins, I can then disengage the PTO and it stops - no problem.
-If I first put it into Forward or Reverse using the shuttle, I can not then shift into 1st - 4th.
-If I first shift it into 1st - 4th, I can not then shift / move the shuttle into either Forward or reverse.

Fawken · Sep 1, 2015

OK, so it sounds as if there is a problem with the shuttle? I have no experience with shuttle models, other than driving one on one job, but it seems the clutch must be OK. Unless someone on TBN can give you better info on what to look for I would still take it to a shop and let them at least diagnose the issue.

Soundguy · Sep 1, 2015

i would not assume clutch ok.

can you put it in gear and a range, and then bump the starter with fuel off so it won't start, will it make the tractor lurch forward ( backward ) ?

GreenYellow · Sep 1, 2015

Soundguy said:
i would not assume clutch ok.

can you put it in gear and a range, and then bump the starter with fuel off so it won't start, will it make the tractor lurch forward ( backward ) ?

i agree. With the tractor not running, put it in gear and range, push the clutch all the way and bump starter. If the tractor lurches forward or backward, bingo. If it doesn't, your clutch is not engaged.
Make sure the brake is not set when you try this.

MOTractor · Sep 1, 2015

GreenYellow said:
i agree. With the tractor not running, put it in gear and range, push the clutch all the way and bump starter. If the tractor lurches forward or backward, bingo. If it doesn't, your clutch is not engaged. Make sure the brake is not set when you try this.

Won't the safeties stop me from doing this?

GreenYellow · Sep 1, 2015

MOTractor said:
Won't the safeties stop me from doing this?

I doubt it -- although I don't own a 1994 Ford 1920.
The safeties on my Deere 670 won't prevent it. If you're in the seat and the clutch pedal is depressed, it should start.

MOTractor · Sep 1, 2015

I'll give it a try tonight.

GreenYellow · Sep 1, 2015

MOTractor said:
I'll give it a try tonight.

Cool. Let us know.

...and for clarity... BUMP the starter -- just enough to see if the tractor moves. If the engine does start, and the clutch is in fact engaged, you'll be rolling. Keep that in mind. Choose a low gear.

If the tractor is in gear (with clutch pedal fully depressed) and does NOT lurch forward when you hit the starter, it means the clutch is NOT the problem.
If it does lurch forward, you need clutch work.

MOTractor · Sep 1, 2015

GreenYellow said:
Cool. Let us know.

...and for clarity... BUMP the starter -- just enough to see if the tractor moves. If the engine does start, and the clutch is in fact engaged, you'll be rolling. Keep that in mind. Choose a low gear.

Low gear and reverse - if I run through the workbench and out the back wall of the shop I may be in the doghouse!

GreenYellow · Sep 1, 2015

MOTractor said:
Low gear and reverse - if I run through the workbench and out the back wall of the shop I may be in the doghouse!

LOL

That would be a very real possibility if you were in the wrong gear with a locked clutch. If that happens, take pictures.

MOTractor · Sep 1, 2015

Update: With the tractor off i put it in low range, reverse, and 2nd gear. I turned the key and it started and immediately started started moving in reverse. As a test I put on the brake to see if I was fully engaged - I was. I probably could have stopped it but it would have killed the motor.

Clutch?

GreenYellow · Sep 1, 2015

MOTractor said:
Update: With the tractor off i put it in low range, reverse, and 2nd gear. I turned the key and it started and immediately started started moving in reverse. As a test I put on the brake to see if I was fully engaged - I was. I probably could have stopped it but it would have killed the motor. Clutch?

Yes. Or throw out bearing as mentioned before.
At least you eliminated some stuff...

Soundguy · Sep 2, 2015

yup, narrows it down nicely.

Pilot might even be seized.

MOTractor · Sep 5, 2015

We have decided to split the tractor to check the clutch. If the clutch is bad I will order it on Monday. So expect a flurry of questions

1st batch:

Question 1: How do you support the back half of the tractor AND make it where you can roll the back half away?
Question 2: Front half, the oil pan looks like sheet metal so I do not think I can use that as a support point. Looks like I can use the front frame rail - how do you do yours?
Question 3:In one of the pics below - are those what the manual are calling the pressure and return lines?
Question 4: In the other pic, just confirming that those are the bolts that actually hold the halves together.

Thank you!