Tractor Sizing How Much Can A Sub Compact Tractor lift?

[AxleHub]

I was gonna say it but didn't, but since someone else mentioned it....

It seems as af SCUT owners feel they need to prove themselves to people with larger machines.

I believe this is because they falsly believe we don't view or respect scuts as the capable little machines.

There is nothing to prove. I have a CUT. But I do t look down on SCUT owners. Why do you feel like you have something to prove? And to whom?

I think its pretty easy to guess when poster/posters say they would never want to use a scut to mow lawn and its too small to be a tractor.

Those statements were made on this thread more than once.

But more importantly LD1 . . there are some fine posters here and on other threads who own larger tractors . . but there are some who don't seem to understand that ballast is more than a balancer for tractors . . its also a "ballast" for how new prospects may not have any defenses against one sided opinions . . no counterbalances.

How many times do we read the opinion that "always go bigger than you think"?

What effect does that have on people looking at their 1st tractor? What logic is at play?

Absolutely some posters with larger equipment are trying to help . . absolutely and there are some that post here regularly.
But some are trying to dominate the naive or the 1st timers. They want them to choose as they chose now. Maybe its intentional or maybe it isn't but the effect is the same.

In other words . . Users respect ballast for their tractors and I respect ballast in how people are treated by words spoken or written.

You asked " Why do you feel like you have something to prove? And to whom?"

And my answer is . . . Balanced viewpoints (ballast) are our responsibilities . . to those too new to defend themselves.

 

[CDennyRun]

Greetings CDenny,

In the scut you had, 500 lbs felt heavy to you. But if you recall from my test results . . I indicated that when I tested I was on my level lawn and had only the ballast of my rears being loaded . . nothing else. And while I was test loading I wasn't even on the tractor to act as ballast. And in testing that . . I had the fel off the ground by 2 feet to see the results.

500lbs felt significant to the narrow/short wheel base, which is almost the same as yours. In most cases people with tractors don't work on perfectly flat, hard ground. These numbers aren't "real world" because nobody in the real world works in perfect conditions.

My tractor fel arms had the quick attach at 77#, the forks at 115#, a wood pallet at 24#, and gradually 870+ # of concrete edgers. And still the tractor sat with all 4 wheels flat on the ground. Each time lowering and then lifting as I added. And yes . . I kept pressing on the payload to evaluate if the tractor backend was getting "light" which it wasn't.

This still isn't real world. What happens when you hit the brakes, or hit a bump when going forward over your truck bed with that kind of weight? Inertia takes over, and shifts the center of gravity. This could have HUGE consequences.

Then I got on the tractor . . Raised it to the height of my full sized pickup bed and then lowered the fel and drove on flat ground at a fel height of 2 feet . . Knowing full well I could . . . Lift it to greater than my pickup bed height and it could stand on its own . . without me even being on it on flat ground.

See above

I can't help you felt 500 lbs felt heavy to you. Maybe some scuts are like that . . but I'm sure there are plenty more than just mine that don't feel that way.

I know that your GC has more capacity than my TZ24DA did. Mine was rated @ 780lbs to max lift at the pin. I had no ballast, and you have fluid in your tires. What I can't get over is using your tractor beyond the rated capacity, and basing it off of perfect world scenarios. This is a false reality when on the job, and can build a dangerous confidence

What I do know is . . I was deliberately testing . . because I don't want to figure out my margin of error when I'm using the tractor . . because that is not the time for testing.

This doesn't sound safe. After all, don't you want to know what you can lift while actually using the tractor on a job?

I started this thread to encourage others with scuts to test their units to find out what their margin of error might be and to demonstrate that ALL scuts aren't just pigeon-holed at a 500 pound maximum lifting ability (with or without bucket ????)

Nobody pigeon-holed scuts to a 500lb capacity. I would also encourage people to know what they can lift on an incline, slant, bumpy, and muddy ground. If you go into a work scenario thinking you can lift X amount, but cant... you end up on your side, and buying a new truck bed.

I also wanted to clarify everything attached to the fell arms so that new prospects might better understand what the total picture is and not some nebulous brochure description where they can't tell if the bucket is or isn't included.

I wouldn't recommend encouraging new tractor owners to lift objects beyond the recommended specs

Now in the process of this testing . . it seems like the thread has collected a high percentage of larger tractor owners and that is fine. And expressing their opinions is welcome too. But lets be clear . . testing trumps opinions.

You make it sound like we have no experience in this category....

I'm happy to listen to many opinions . . but I hear them the first time and incorporate it into the testing process or my consideration. 6 or 7 times when some repeat their opinion . . doesn't make it anymore valid or worthy.

First hand experience isn't worthy?

But it is interesting just how many larger sized tractor users gravitate to a scut thread . . Isn't it Almost like a wolf pack lol.

We are interested in many other topics as well. This one has just been very entertaining!

Everyone who invests in a new or different tractor . . In my opinion . . should do some controlled testing before they use it on a serious basis . . because in my opinion there are things you can learn on the job . . Like the vatiables . . but there are things important to know or understand before the job . . like the outer margins.

See my above posts

Now wouldn't it be nice if some of the larger tractor owners got some of their scut friends to come and join the discussion . . or don't they have any scut friends

Chris

 

[check]

And you are going to need a semi to haul the new toys.

And don't forget the ATV! And the beer cooler on the back!

 

[CDennyRun]

Trust me folks this is not hard to figure out. Avoid injury! Avoid broken or premature wear on your equipment ! AVoid pointless discussion by simply understanding that even with a machine able to lift more than its rated for its not safe and by simply reading the owners manual it will be clear that 580LBS is what the factory has tested it to be safely operated with in varied conditions when the factory recommended ballast is installed.

For sure there is a small safety margin within that listing and to go looking for what it is, would be silly to say the least. If you know you need more lift ability than 580LBS buy a bigger machine and save the heartache later on when you zig instead of zagging and have that oops that leads to the neighbor having to get their bigger tractor to put yours upright or even worse help the emergency responders pull it off of your crushed body!

For those who want to overstep the limits there are consequences and sometimes they will take a toll. Giving advice here is in many cases to new operators who will be making lots of mistakes and to try to instill an IDEA that is wrong about lift capacity and stability that is fundamentally wrong from the start with no real factual testing other than one new persons perception to stability being argued with those who have many years of experience and have seen the hazards unfold first hand that the new operator has no clue about the how or why is absurd to say the least! Please understand some of us have heard this before and have been there with the emergency responders when the wife calls 911 because "OH MY GOD MY HUSBAN IS UNDER THE TRACTOR!"
I have seen it, done it, been around it and picked up the pieces afterwards and don't recommend it!

This needs to be posted at the beginning of the thread!

Chris

 

[LD1]

Yes, many times it is said to get bigger than you think you need. For good reason too. It is a really expensive mistake to trade up because you didn't buy the right machine the first time.

Advise to what machine is best suited to the tasks is almost always prefaced with many questions regarding the tasks that one wants to accomplish.

Someone wanting a tractor to skid logs, dig in the dirt, plow a drive, move pallets, bull a moldboard plow, and considering a BX and seeking advise....yea they are gonna get "you need a bigger tractor" answers.

Those asking about mowing a 4acre lawn, and maintaining a flowerbed, hauling mulch, and wanting a blade to clear the drive of the 12" of annual snowfall, then yea, a SCUT is a better match.

All to often on here, people underestimate their needs. Then buy a SCUT and are unhappy.

 

[gladehound]

I think its pretty easy to guess when poster/posters say they would never want to use a scut to mow lawn and its too small to be a tractor.

Those statements were made on this thread more than once.

But more importantly LD1 . . there are some fine posters here and on other threads who own larger tractors . . but there are some who don't seem to understand that ballast is more than a balancer for tractors . . its also a "ballast" for how new prospects may not have any defenses against one sided opinions . . no counterbalances.

How many times do we read the opinion that "always go bigger than you think"?

What effect does that have on people looking at their 1st tractor? What logic is at play?

Absolutely some posters with larger equipment are trying to help . . absolutely and there are some that post here regularly.
But some are trying to dominate the naive or the 1st timers. They want them to choose as they chose now. Maybe its intentional or maybe it isn't but the effect is the same.

In other words . . Users respect ballast for their tractors and I respect ballast in how people are treated by words spoken or written.

You asked " Why do you feel like you have something to prove? And to whom?"

And my answer is . . . Balanced viewpoints (ballast) are our responsibilities . . to those too new to defend themselves.

Multiple experienced operators just told you that the way you have represented SCUT capabilities could be misleading to the point that it could cause a newbie to get hurt. Several here have tried to provide balance to your misleading representation of SCUT capabilities to prevent a newbie from getting hurt (and that newbie might be you). Your response is that you are trying to defend those too new to defend themselves.

I am struggling to understand what they need to be defended from? Is it the wisdom of decades of safe tractor operation to which you try to provide counter balance? And if you are successful, what exactly have you succeeded in doing for them? Do you really think you are helping them?

You consistently respond to any mention of SCUT limitations by trying to minimize the limitation. It would be wiser to acknowledge the limitations so that you can work safely within them.

You also try to paint anyone who offers advice contrary to your own as an intimidator and oppressor of discussion. Yet nobody on this thread has tried to intimidate or oppress discussion more than you.

 

[AxleHub]

Yes, many times it is said to get bigger than you think you need. For good reason too. It is a really expensive mistake to trade up because you didn't buy the right machine the first time.

Advise to what machine is best suited to the tasks is almost always prefaced with many questions regarding the tasks that one wants to accomplish.

Someone wanting a tractor to skid logs, dig in the dirt, plow a drive, move pallets, bull a moldboard plow, and considering a BX and seeking advise....yea they are gonna get "you need a bigger tractor" answers.

Those asking about mowing a 4acre lawn, and maintaining a flowerbed, hauling mulch, and wanting a blade to clear the drive of the 12" of annual snowfall, then yea, a SCUT is a better match.

All to often on here, people underestimate their needs. Then buy a SCUT and are unhappy.

Just so we're on the same point . . You're saying my neighbor's jd 300 series lawnmower blows and plows a 200 foot driveway of WI winter snow and my massey isn't capable of doing the same thing?

Another neighbor with even longer driveway plows with a 500 cc atv . . and you're saying my massey can't do as well???

Another neighbor has a jd 728x lawn mower and plows a similar driveway to mine . . yet uou are saying I can't compare to any of these?

LD1 . . you are proving my.point . . Your statement has no balance (ballast). And to boot . . 12 inches of annual snow in WI? We get snows that deep snd drifts twice that height.

But you wonder why I challenge such silly statements? Even the naive know better than believe you just made a balanced post. And digging dirt ?? If a "dingo" (small miniature rental walk behind skidsteer) can dig dirt and post hole dig and trench . . But my massey can't ??

Where's the mental ballast ld1 ?

 

[CDennyRun]

Multiple experienced operators just told you that the way you have represented SCUT capabilities could be misleading to the point that it could cause a newbie to get hurt. Several here have tried to provide balance to your misleading representation of SCUT capabilities to prevent a newbie from getting hurt (and that newbie might be you). Your response is that you are trying to defend those too new to defend themselves.

I am struggling to understand what they need to be defended from? Is it the wisdom of decades of safe tractor operation to which you try to provide counter balance? And if you are successful, what exactly have you succeeded in doing for them? Do you really think you are helping them?

You consistently respond to any mention of SCUT limitations by trying to minimize the limitation. It would be wiser to acknowledge the limitations so that you can work safely within them.

You also try to paint anyone who offers advice contrary to your own as an intimidator and oppressor of discussion. Yet nobody on this thread has tried to intimidate or oppress discussion more than you.

Well stated! His other big thread is based on safety, and rookie mistakes. Yet he has not headed anything we're saying. I don't get it..

 

[LD1]

Wow, you took a couple of things I mentioned out of context and twisted the point I was trying to make.

Is your neighbors JD 300 gonna skid logs, move pallets, and pull a moldboard plow as well?

You are doing all the other SCUT owners no favors. Constantly trying to prove the worthiness of you SCUT yet again.

From the way you describe a SCUT and its capabilities, if I didn't know you were talking about a SCUT, I would swear you had a "large" tractor.

Someone listening to you for advise on tractors would make a very costly mistake when they realize they bought too small.

 

[AxleHub]

Multiple experienced operators just told you that the way you have represented SCUT capabilities could be misleading to the point that it could cause a newbie to get hurt. Several here have tried to provide balance to your misleading representation of SCUT capabilities to prevent a newbie from getting hurt (and that newbie might be you). Your response is that you are trying to defend those too new to defend themselves.

I am struggling to understand what they need to be defended from? Is it the wisdom of decades of safe tractor operation to which you try to provide counter balance? And if you are successful, what exactly have you succeeded in doing for them? Do you really think you are helping them?

You consistently respond to any mention of SCUT limitations by trying to minimize the limitation. It would be wiser to acknowledge the limitations so that you can work safely within them.

You also try to paint anyone who offers advice contrary to your own as an intimidator and oppressor of discussion. Yet nobody on this thread has tried to intimidate or oppress discussion more than you.

Not a very effective post imo glade. Anyone who reads my posts can see your statements of my posts don't match the posts.

And you still . . won't see emotion. By the way . . wasn't it you who were the one running too small a tractor on too big a projects for years ? Projects with 2 or 3 wheels only making contact on projects I wouldn't try . . for years?