Walt 2002
Platinum Member
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Ethanol - A new battle brewing?
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Copperhead
Veteran Member
I would like to see a farmer getting ethanol subsidies. Please provide a list. Silly me out on the farm, I always thought that corn was sold by a farmer on the market down at the grain elevator coop with no real regard where it is going to be used. Not sure how ethanol plays into that decision, except for those few farmers that are growing ethanol specific hybrids being bought solely by ethanol producers. Those farmers see a little bit of a lift from the general market price, but not that great. It is only because the corn structure of those hybrids are more favorable for ethanol production and reduce the cost to produce ethanol that the ethanol producers are willing to pay a little over market price for that variety of corn. But farmers that are growing those varieties is limited.
And Walt is right, if corn had followed inflation trends of the last 50 years, corn would be considerably higher on the market than it is. Now it can be argued somewhat that there are "subsidies' for the crop insurance program, but the crop insurance program is not limited to corn, but is provided across the spectrum to all crops being grown. I don't really see that as a bad thing. We spent more in one month in the Iraq war, on average, than we spend on crop insurance premium subsidies in a full year. By offering the crop insurance premium subsidies, it makes for a more stable agriculture environment that actually benefits the consumer. It is not a net loss to the tax payer. In contrast, what did we gain out of the Iraq war except 1.1 Trillion dollars lost, over 4100 dead Americans, a large batch of wounded ones, and a big list of families that have been dramatically effected. I am waiting to see the list of military that have died in the cornfields of America. I am more than comfortable with any crop insurance subsidy program.
And Walt is right, if corn had followed inflation trends of the last 50 years, corn would be considerably higher on the market than it is. Now it can be argued somewhat that there are "subsidies' for the crop insurance program, but the crop insurance program is not limited to corn, but is provided across the spectrum to all crops being grown. I don't really see that as a bad thing. We spent more in one month in the Iraq war, on average, than we spend on crop insurance premium subsidies in a full year. By offering the crop insurance premium subsidies, it makes for a more stable agriculture environment that actually benefits the consumer. It is not a net loss to the tax payer. In contrast, what did we gain out of the Iraq war except 1.1 Trillion dollars lost, over 4100 dead Americans, a large batch of wounded ones, and a big list of families that have been dramatically effected. I am waiting to see the list of military that have died in the cornfields of America. I am more than comfortable with any crop insurance subsidy program.
DarkBlack
Elite Member
You know ,as I've stated before...the subsidy exists in the form of a requirement to buy a product you don't want in order to obtain the other product you actually want.. It's a pretty simple subsidy example actually.
Mitkof
Bronze Member
When I buy fuel that has 10% ethanol, my truck MPG actually drops by roughly 10%. Why is that??? Seems weird.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Oh. Ok. I guess that memo didn't make it to Iowa. We have ethanol free all around us here in the corn patch, year round. But wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense. Iowa is corn central. The state government is all about the ag lobby. Yep, we must have never got the memo. Too bad your state government doesn't give you freedom of choice. And that is where it is at. The state level. While the EPA RFS thing does mandate a certain amount of ethanol be used as a percentage of gasoline used in the country, it does not say how it is to be used. It can be in E10, E15, E20, E30, and E85. And it does not stipulate that ethanol free fuel not be available along side of E10. That is a state controlled issue. Since this is causing some grief, then maybe they need to either petition their state hired help to remove any restriction or move before they come unglued.
Yeah, sometimes some engines take a hit using E10. Some don't. Mine gets roughly the same mpg on E0, E10, and E15. Only when I use higher levels of ethanol does the mpg start taking a dive.
Actually, I find this all fascinating on several levels. Out of all the things to worry about, it just boggles the mind how some get their panties all in a wad over ethanol.
Yeah, sometimes some engines take a hit using E10. Some don't. Mine gets roughly the same mpg on E0, E10, and E15. Only when I use higher levels of ethanol does the mpg start taking a dive.
Actually, I find this all fascinating on several levels. Out of all the things to worry about, it just boggles the mind how some get their panties all in a wad over ethanol.
lonestar6
New member
Government & politicians know how better to run our lives than WE do, (they have a vested interest)....here in PA we have the Summer/Winter gas formulas that affect the cost/performance seasonally. I look forward to seeing how these "aluminum body" Fords hold up to all the salt & calcium PENDOT saturates the roads with in the winter!!!! It's ok that the melt & run-off kills vegetation & enters waterways, They're doing whats best for US!!!
I don't care for the Ethanol PERIOD!!! it seems to cause a gel residue that requires carb/injector cleaning more frequently. Hence, you are forced to purchase an anti-ethanol additive. I'm sure that soybeans or carrots & peas will become the next greatest fuel additive to come along!
I don't care for the Ethanol PERIOD!!! it seems to cause a gel residue that requires carb/injector cleaning more frequently. Hence, you are forced to purchase an anti-ethanol additive. I'm sure that soybeans or carrots & peas will become the next greatest fuel additive to come along!
Mitkof
Bronze Member
Lonestar6, very good point. I have to use Sea Foam additive to keep my injectors clean. I remember laughing when EPA announced 25+ years ago that a University scientist had discovered ethanol which will replace petroleum as fuel. Silly me and I thought farmers had been using home made ethanol for 75+ years. I remember in HS we would buy Ethel fuel at the gas station for $.25 gallon. The cheapest I remember ever paying was 19 cents a gallon.
lonestar6
New member
Mitkof, I do the EXACT same thing + diesel additive for my tractor.....hope you enjoy a good Thanksgiving....(with a "big bowl" of corn to go with dinner!!!
Copperhead
Veteran Member
I would expect the Ford aluminum bodies to fare pretty well. One of the reasons that most commercial semi truck trailers and cabs (some cabs more polymer than metal) are made of aluminum now. Partly for weight savings, partly for corrosion resistance.
The winter/summer gas formulations center mostly around the level of Butane in the gasoline formulation. A higher level of butane is used during cold weather months to make sure that the gasoline vaporized properly in the combustion chamber. Less butane is used during summer months. Hence, the typically lower mpg in the winter and higher in the summer.
Summer-grade versus Winter-grade Fuel - HowStuffWorks
Summer-Blend vs Winter-Blend Gasoline: What?s the Difference?
The winter/summer gas formulations center mostly around the level of Butane in the gasoline formulation. A higher level of butane is used during cold weather months to make sure that the gasoline vaporized properly in the combustion chamber. Less butane is used during summer months. Hence, the typically lower mpg in the winter and higher in the summer.
Summer-grade versus Winter-grade Fuel - HowStuffWorks
Summer-Blend vs Winter-Blend Gasoline: What?s the Difference?
