Ethanol - A new battle brewing?

   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #31  
Corn on corn is very common, and those doing so aren't "*******". Those people make their living growing crops, they know better than an internet know-it-all.

Those folks make their living on raising crops, but at the expense of the land. As if those who rotate crops are just in it for a hobby? Yeah, tell that to my neighbors around me who also rotate crops seasonally. Pretty expensive hobby with a thousand acres of good farm land.

Internet know it all? I still live on the family farm I grew up on in the 60's. Folks moved to town and I took the place over. Yes, they are retards that are abusing the soil. Crop rotation is a tried, proven, and sound farming practice. All of my neighbors also rotate crops seasonally. Anyone who takes the time to understand the effect, both positive and negative, of each crop on the soil, they would rotate crops also. I learned this stuff clear back in school in FFA 45 years ago before an internet thanks to a good FFA instructor and plenty of solid research from the Iowa State University Extension office.

Those that do corn after corn after corn are no different than the gold prospectors who butchered the land in California and Alaska back in the day. Just take, take, and take and leave the land in worse shape than they found it.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #32  
I agree corn prices are bad but you will not see that in a bag of Doritos. Latest store price of a 12oz. bag is $4.29. Cereal prices are also continuously going up. Not corn producers' fault but not realistic given the current corn prices.

Should see a shift from corn production to another crop which will bring corn prices up. Supply and demand.

What crop would that be that isn't already being grown? It is easy to throw around ideas about growing other crops, but the market is what decides what is grown. If wheat were at a high price, you can bet more acres would be put into wheat. Same for oats, barley, or any other crop. Look at the commodity exchange prices for various crops, compare the pricing over the last 20 years, then get back with us. And areas of the country dictate what crops can be raised. Ever notice how oranges and rice are not grown in S. Dakota? And one little factoid that many fail to see, is that a farmer must provide info to the government on what crops are being raised and how many acres are being used for each crop. The government can look at data from all the farmers and put the brakes on any farm from growing too much of one particular crop. The gooberment has as much to say about what is raised than any farmer does. Crop production plans must be submitted and government approvals obtained.

As for prices up at stores... let's see.. the dollar has lost about 30% of its value in the last 10 years, transportation costs are higher, government regulations from Obummercare to a host of other things have driven up cost to keep plants and stores open. And unlike grain which is a commodity traded on exchanges, food producers who make products for the retail market can set their own price for goods, and so also the retailer where you buy. As a truck owner, I am not going to haul someone's product for the same price I did 6 months ago. You want me to show up, you have to pay. Again, the market. I am not going to haul for John Cheapskate when I can haul for Daddy Warbucks. Meet the transport price, and you get the truck. Unfortunately, the consumer at the checkout line is the guy who gets the bill. Don't like it? Then remove the plethora of regulations that have been piled on the transport industry and created a situation where there is more freight than trucks to haul it, and to add insult, according to the American Trucking Association, a severe driver shortage that is only going to be worse in the near future. Pay and benefits will have to go up to attract and retain good drivers that can make it thru the vetting process of all the government regulatory maze. Again, the consumer will get the bill. Increasing more restrictive government regulations from CSA safety scores to tightening DOT physical requirements are restricting more potential drivers from staying in trucking and even doing it in the first place. And we haven't even touched on the fact that EPA regulatory requirements have increased the purchase price of trucks by over 30% in the last 10 years, over and above normal cost inflation that would have occurred anyway.

The closing beef price on the commodity exchange was $183 per hundred weight on the hoof. $1.83 a pound. Compare that to the price you pay for beef at the store or that burger at Wendy's and figure out where the money is going. It isn't going to the beef producer.


Truth be told, the reason food prices are considerably higher can be laid solidly on the back of Government currency manipulation and the heavy boot of massive regulation. And this is true of why people in other areas of the world starve... their government doesn't allow them access to reasonably priced food, not because of any shortages, ethanol production, etc.
 
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   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #34  
2015 ... Still forced to buy ethanol in order to purchase gasoline. Still one of the most egregious examples of subsidizing an industry.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #35  
context is a great thing, other companies receive help as well (do they need it?)

The 8 Biggest Corporate Welfare Recipients in America

https://pando.com/2014/02/26/fortune-500-companies-receive-63-billion-in-subsidies/

And nope, corn is still subsidized.

Bigger subsidies under new farm bill program - POLITICO

And yes, rotating crops is essential. It has fallen to the side as Monsanto has provided fertilizer engineered for corn so it can be planted yearly (at a great cost to the environment)
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #36  
New law. Orange juice must contain 10% bla,bla...
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #37  
Interesting... now let's put it in perspective.....

The Iraq war cost us about $12 billion per month on average from 2003-2010. And at another $775 million for veteran assistance following that. And one cannot put a price on the toll in military lives and families. All to keep the oil flowing. U.S. petroleum direct subsidies have averaged between $10 billion and $52 billion annually, with worldwide petroleum subsidies at $775 billion to $1 Trillion annually. Yeah, boy! Everyone band together and buy only gasoline! After all, the oil companies are such disparate condition that they need our support both at the pump and from our taxes! Those nasty farmers don't need anything!

Now, I am generally against subsidies for most all things they are targeted for, but I rest very comfortably at night when I look at how our money gets spent in relation to crops. At least that money is staying in the U.S. Any subsidies should be open for scrutiny, but while a lot of folks here are livid about $4 billion a year going to agriculture (of which part of that is related to land conservation reserve programs to have some crop land sit in reserve unplanted), all of which is in the U.S. and covers a lot more than anything related to corn, they champion putting up to $52 billion a year towards the oil companies which use much of that money for their international operations. And many fail to take account that of the almost $140 billion dollar budget for the USDA in 2015, $112 billion (roughly 80% of the entire budget) is just for the food stamp and nutrition assistance programs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Agriculture And the rest has to be spread around food safety, administration, health inspection, and a host of other things.
 
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   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #38  
Copperhead, as always, completely agree with you. As we discussed with that Ethanol doc I mentioned, we seem to be missing the greater point in these conversations. I feel / know that there are some smart people who know how to manipulate, and putting a smaller issue in the forefront of the bigger issue keeps most people not looking too far.

Got another doc for you. This one feels pretty far to the left (like a vegetarian produced it) but has some serious questions to ask of how much food it takes to make food.

https://vimeo.com/95436726
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #39  
Interesting... now let's put it in perspective.....

The Iraq war cost us about $12 billion per month on average from 2003-2010. And at another $775 million for veteran assistance following that. And one cannot put a price on the toll in military lives and families. All to keep the oil flowing.

With the possibility of starting another "war", oil had nothing to do with it and neither did wmd's
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #40  
Interesting... now let's put it in perspective.....

The Iraq war cost us about $12 billion per month on average from 2003-2010. And at another $775 million for veteran assistance following that. And one cannot put a price on the toll in military lives and families. All to keep the oil flowing.

With the possibility of starting another "war", oil had nothing to do with it and neither did wmd's
 
 
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