Ethanol - A new battle brewing?

   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #41  
Ah... but we were told it was to keep the oil lanes open for Europe, and of course the WMD thing, and I distinctly recall the Bush Administration saying that oil from Iraq would be used to compensate the cost of us going in to depose Hussein. We did not get any compensation in either oil itself, or money from sale of Iraqi oil, contrary to what we had been told. We got the entire bill for this, and all we did was lose 4425 of our military folks and make the country safe for ISIS. So oil was indeed a major factor here. If nothing else, that we were to have the cost of this adventure to be paid with Iraqi oil revenues. That is pure fact of what we were told.

The Iraq war will cost little, and Iraq oil will pay for it. Then.....
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #42  
Consider the source; would you buy a used vehicle from any of the three, "W", Rumsfeld, Cheney; Egotists all and I'm being generous
 
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   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #43  
W

Truth be told, the reason food prices are considerably higher can be laid solidly on the back of Government currency manipulation and the heavy boot of massive regulation.

If "the heavy boot of massive regulation" were suddenly remove how much would our food prices decline and which?
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #44  
Need to get up to speed. Ethanol subsidies died in 2011 when they were not renewed in the farm bill. There are some grants, tax credits, etc for ethanol blender pumps, but that is retail gas station stuff, not ethanol producers.

One of the main reasons for ethanol production is corn price stability. Corn prices are low now, and without price being somewhat stable due to ethanol, the price would go into the basement and the taxpayer would be shelling out grain price support subsidies. Right now, on an inflation adjusted basis, corn prices are lower than in the mid 90's. All of this hoopla by livestock producers over ethanol costing them more in grain price is a ruse. They want $1 a bushel corn. No different than folks wanting $1 a gallon fuel. They cry and whine about feed, but they fail to mention that livestock market prices are doing very well.

It's really simple. Folks with a bias against ethanol will continue to see conspiracies, black helicopters, and suck up every bit of stuff on the net that justifies their preconceived mindset. And those that have a stake in ethanol are not much different. Then there those of us who are neutral and we have flex fuel vehicles, know what the fuel economy is on different blends of ethanol and ethanol free, then we look at prevailing price at the pump and choose whatever offers the lowest cost per mile to use. No bias, just a business mindset.

Well, I don't know what you eat, but I have no problem with starch and sugars being turned into fuel. For every bushel of corn that is used for ethanol, there is a resulting leftover of 1.4 lb of corn oil, about 18 lb of high protein feed supplement, and several other products. It isn't like once a bushel of corn gets targeted toward ethanol that it is forever lost to the food chain. And since corn prices are lower than bad right now, my guess is that there is not a corn shortage. No one is going without their corn bread, corn flakes, Doritos or Cheetos.

That is a state issue you need to take up with your hired help at the Capitol. While there is a renewable fuel standard, there is no requirement by EPA that only E10 can be available. Not a corn lobby thing either. I live in Iowa, the largest corn producing state in the nation. Surrounded by over 46 ethanol plants. Swimming in the stuff. Yet, I have ethanol free regular and premium in virtually every town around me, 365 days a year, and sold right along side same fuel pumps at local stations. Your outrage is misplaced.

There are some ******* that do corn after corn, but most farmers rotate different crops each season, so it isn't like all that is getting raised is corn. A major part to the corn glut is we have had some favorable weather the last few years and crop yields have been off the chart in many locations.

Those folks make their living on raising crops, but at the expense of the land. As if those who rotate crops are just in it for a hobby? Yeah, tell that to my neighbors around me who also rotate crops seasonally. Pretty expensive hobby with a thousand acres of good farm land.

Internet know it all? I still live on the family farm I grew up on in the 60's. Folks moved to town and I took the place over. Yes, they are retards that are abusing the soil. Crop rotation is a tried, proven, and sound farming practice. All of my neighbors also rotate crops seasonally. Anyone who takes the time to understand the effect, both positive and negative, of each crop on the soil, they would rotate crops also. I learned this stuff clear back in school in FFA 45 years ago before an internet thanks to a good FFA instructor and plenty of solid research from the Iowa State University Extension office.

Those that do corn after corn after corn are no different than the gold prospectors who butchered the land in California and Alaska back in the day. Just take, take, and take and leave the land in worse shape than they found it.

What crop would that be that isn't already being grown? It is easy to throw around ideas about growing other crops, but the market is what decides what is grown. If wheat were at a high price, you can bet more acres would be put into wheat. Same for oats, barley, or any other crop. Look at the commodity exchange prices for various crops, compare the pricing over the last 20 years, then get back with us. And areas of the country dictate what crops can be raised. Ever notice how oranges and rice are not grown in S. Dakota? And one little factoid that many fail to see, is that a farmer must provide info to the government on what crops are being raised and how many acres are being used for each crop. The government can look at data from all the farmers and put the brakes on any farm from growing too much of one particular crop. The gooberment has as much to say about what is raised than any farmer does. Crop production plans must be submitted and government approvals obtained.

As for prices up at stores... let's see.. the dollar has lost about 30% of its value in the last 10 years, transportation costs are higher, government regulations from Obummercare to a host of other things have driven up cost to keep plants and stores open. And unlike grain which is a commodity traded on exchanges, food producers who make products for the retail market can set their own price for goods, and so also the retailer where you buy. As a truck owner, I am not going to haul someone's product for the same price I did 6 months ago. You want me to show up, you have to pay. Again, the market. I am not going to haul for John Cheapskate when I can haul for Daddy Warbucks. Meet the transport price, and you get the truck. Unfortunately, the consumer at the checkout line is the guy who gets the bill. Don't like it? Then remove the plethora of regulations that have been piled on the transport industry and created a situation where there is more freight than trucks to haul it, and to add insult, according to the American Trucking Association, a severe driver shortage that is only going to be worse in the near future. Pay and benefits will have to go up to attract and retain good drivers that can make it thru the vetting process of all the government regulatory maze. Again, the consumer will get the bill. Increasing more restrictive government regulations from CSA safety scores to tightening DOT physical requirements are restricting more potential drivers from staying in trucking and even doing it in the first place. And we haven't even touched on the fact that EPA regulatory requirements have increased the purchase price of trucks by over 30% in the last 10 years, over and above normal cost inflation that would have occurred anyway.

The closing beef price on the commodity exchange was $183 per hundred weight on the hoof. $1.83 a pound. Compare that to the price you pay for beef at the store or that burger at Wendy's and figure out where the money is going. It isn't going to the beef producer.


Truth be told, the reason food prices are considerably higher can be laid solidly on the back of Government currency manipulation and the heavy boot of massive regulation. And this is true of why people in other areas of the world starve... their government doesn't allow them access to reasonably priced food, not because of any shortages, ethanol production, etc.

Interesting... now let's put it in perspective.....

The Iraq war cost us about $12 billion per month on average from 2003-2010. And at another $775 million for veteran assistance following that. And one cannot put a price on the toll in military lives and families. All to keep the oil flowing. U.S. petroleum direct subsidies have averaged between $10 billion and $52 billion annually, with worldwide petroleum subsidies at $775 billion to $1 Trillion annually. Yeah, boy! Everyone band together and buy only gasoline! After all, the oil companies are such disparate condition that they need our support both at the pump and from our taxes! Those nasty farmers don't need anything!

Now, I am generally against subsidies for most all things they are targeted for, but I rest very comfortably at night when I look at how our money gets spent in relation to crops. At least that money is staying in the U.S. Any subsidies should be open for scrutiny, but while a lot of folks here are livid about $4 billion a year going to agriculture (of which part of that is related to land conservation reserve programs to have some crop land sit in reserve unplanted), all of which is in the U.S. and covers a lot more than anything related to corn, they champion putting up to $52 billion a year towards the oil companies which use much of that money for their international operations. And many fail to take account that of the almost $140 billion dollar budget for the USDA in 2015, $112 billion (roughly 80% of the entire budget) is just for the food stamp and nutrition assistance programs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Agriculture And the rest has to be spread around food safety, administration, health inspection, and a host of other things.

Copperhead, as always, completely agree with you. As we discussed with that Ethanol doc I mentioned, we seem to be missing the greater point in these conversations. I feel / know that there are some smart people who know how to manipulate, and putting a smaller issue in the forefront of the bigger issue keeps most people not looking too far.

Got another doc for you. This one feels pretty far to the left (like a vegetarian produced it) but has some serious questions to ask of how much food it takes to make food.

https://vimeo.com/95436726

Ah... but we were told it was to keep the oil lanes open for Europe, and of course the WMD thing, and I distinctly recall the Bush Administration saying that oil from Iraq would be used to compensate the cost of us going in to depose Hussein. We did not get any compensation in either oil itself, or money from sale of Iraqi oil, contrary to what we had been told. We got the entire bill for this, and all we did was lose 4425 of our military folks and make the country safe for ISIS. So oil was indeed a major factor here. If nothing else, that we were to have the cost of this adventure to be paid with Iraqi oil revenues. That is pure fact of what we were told.

The Iraq war will cost little, and Iraq oil will pay for it. Then.....
,,,,:thumbsup:

,,,,,,,,,How about a little background info that we dont have to extract, painfully, from your posts. :confused3:
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #45  
Ethanol = Farmer's Welfare

No need for it.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #46  
The Iraq war cost us about $12 billion per month on average from 2003-2010. And at another $775 million for veteran assistance following that. .

No need for that either. Bush never should have gone in there, now look what we have.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #47  
My, sure been a lot of bloviating here. I agree with most of what Copperhead said, at least he exhibits some sense and does not deserve to be called names. One thing sure, corn prices certainly are NOT responsible for the high cost of meat or any other food. Corn was almost 3 times what it is now when meat was half the price it is now. And every farmer I know of around here does rotate his crops and for good reason. We have done that for the nearly 80 years that I can remember, I was too young to remember the rest of the years. You can only bulk up the ground so much with chemicals.

Ethanol was/is just another of the big government, greenie, blunders. Remember the MTBE fiasco? Oil companies fought that as they have the ethanol mandate. Yes we have corn production but I have no interest in what it is used for. I do not like mandated ethanol use. It has been little if any advantage for us.

We have not been able to get anything but ethanol here for at least 15 years, I think longer and have never had any problem with it and use no additive.

Walt Conner

"No need for that either. Bush never should have gone in there, now look what we have."

You seem to forget the other World Leaders who thought the same thing and the members of Congress and Senators who voted for it. Yes it was a mistake, hindsight is always perfect. The real mistake was pulling out completely once the war was won and that is when the real mess we are in started.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #48  
"No need for that either. Bush never should have gone in there, now look what we have."

You seem to forget the other World Leaders who thought the same thing and the members of Congress and Senators who voted for it. Yes it was a mistake, hindsight is always perfect. The real mistake was pulling out completely once the war was won and that is when the real mess we are in started.

Sounds like we agree that It was a huge mistake. Huge.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #49  
The real mistake was pulling out completely once the war was won and that is when the real mess we are in started.
The real mistake is going in with NO PLAN. Incredulous icon, considering the lengthy delay. I assumed planning was in effect. ... Obviously, even my concept of "moron" is flawed.
 
   / Ethanol - A new battle brewing? #50  
The real mistake is going in with NO PLAN. Incredulous icon, considering the lengthy delay. I assumed planning was in effect. ... Obviously, even my concept of "moron" is flawed.

Didn't realize you were there on the planning. However, people were happily voting, girls were going to school, things were stable then the wizard pulled the rug out from under them against the best advice in the world but that had nothing to do with ethanol, the topic.

Walt Conner
 

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