WICKED Utility Grapple!!!

[EverythingAttachments]

What is the HP limit and weight on the new 55" single lid?

75HP Utility Tractor. Why do we put limits on attachments? Because there are many Teds in the world, and Teds are ROUGH.
I put a short clip on our Facebook Page of Ted bouncing his L6060 like a basketball while tugging on overgrown Tarzan vines. That's a prime example!

I know they'll work on larger, so the recommendation can vary based on the user and the application.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Is that a good match for a L3700, and what does it cost ?

The best match for an L3700 would be our Single Lid or Dual Lid Wicked Grapple for Compact Tractors. I like 60", but width is really up to you because they're all plenty light(but incredibly strong).
Your loader's lift capacity will be preserved so you can have all kinds of Grapplin' Fun!!

We have a huge Compact Wicked Grapple TBN thread with hours of good reading.

 

[IslandTractor]

75HP Utility Tractor. Why do we put limits on attachments? Because there are many Teds in the world, and Teds are ROUGH.
I put a short clip on our Facebook Page of Ted bouncing his L6060 like a basketball while tugging on overgrown Tarzan vines. That's a prime example!

I know they'll work on larger, and the recommendation can vary based on the user and the application.
Travis

Can you put together a simple chart showing the differences in materials used for similar sized grapples. I think that would be of help to many. I personally cannot figure out where your breakpoint is for CUT vs utility. Rating grapples by horsepower is misleading. Tractor mass (weight) and loader strength (breakout) are far more relevant to grapple sizing than tractor horsepower. Many modern CUTs are intentionally built lightweight so they can be used as finish mowers and have relatively undersized loaders (perhaps because of lightweight axles). Kubota in particular builds tractors that have high hp to weight ratios and these should probably not be compared to heavier tractors purely on the basis of horsepower at least for grapple sizing. You list your midrange grapples as suitable for CUTs up to 55hp but my 40hp Kioti CUT is almost exactly the same weight and loader strength as the 65hp Kioti. Why would the midrange grapple not be sized according to something more relevant than horsepower??? Seems like your most recent (55" single 75hp limit) is really only needed for utility tractors as the similar midrange model below it would certainly stand up to any CUT sized tractor even if Ted was the operator. I will remind you that my tractor has a 48" Millonzi grapple made of 3/8" mild steel with a very unsophisticated design compared to the recent EA offerings. It has stood up to over 8 years of pretty intense grapple work. An identical grapple has been mounted to a TBN member's M59 for about the same time and that grapple is also still doing fine. These Millonzi's are comparable to your light duty 50" single lid for compacts up to 35. Surely the larger midrange EA grapple will stand up to ANY compact tractor on the market (and please don't make up BS marketing terms like "MegaCompact"). Unless EA has empirical evidence that a 65hp tractor of the same weight and loader strength as a sub 55hp compact can somehow magically put more stress on a grapple, then don't try to upsell unnecessary steel to CUT owners. Their net lift capacity and wallet weight will drop substantially without improving their grapple experience. It is almost silly to see your catalog proclaiming the virtues of lighter grapples when the 55 weighs almost 300lbs more than the 54 midrange. You say that Ted's L6060 (presumably a "Megacompact" in your terminology) would need the new 55" grapple but if you look at the specs for the L6060 compared to my Kioti DK40se, the Kioti has a higher rated loader, higher hydraulic output and essentially the same weight. Extra horsepower is irrelevant in grapple selection. Why would Ted need the 600+lb grapple when my puny 300lb grapple has survived eight years of abuse on a nearly identical sized tractor?

As often discussed, the problem with buying grapples is that virtually nobody (other than Xfaxman) does it more than once. That puts the buyer at a serious disadvantage as they are buying a piece of equipment they have never operated before and are therefore lacking personal experience to help them decide on size and type etc. Given the all American tendency to oversize everything from hamburgers to tractors, most folks with the cash will buy bigger even if they don't really need it or if smaller would be more efficient. I think you do your CUT owner potential customers a disservice by implying that the midrange 54" grapple line is not appropriate for something like Ted's L6060. If his L has the same weight, lift and size as a 40hp CUT, then it should have the same grapple. HP is for running things off the PTO and is quite simply irrelevant for grapple selection.

Sell the 55 for heavy utility tractors. It's a beautiful grapple but oversized for CUTS. The 54 is more than adequate strength for ANY CUT on the market today.

Oh yea, one more thing, if you want to make improvements on the 54, make the jaw open a few inches wider. My puny Millonzi somehow opens past 40" (?42) so I know you guys can do it without needing to add 300lbs of excess steel.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Can you put together a simple chart showing the differences in materials used for similar sized grapples. I think that would be of help to many. I personally cannot figure out where your breakpoint is for CUT vs utility. Rating grapples by horsepower is misleading. Tractor mass (weight) and loader strength (breakout) are far more relevant to grapple sizing than tractor horsepower. Many modern CUTs are intentionally built lightweight so they can be used as finish mowers and have relatively undersized loaders (perhaps because of lightweight axles). Kubota in particular builds tractors that have high hp to weight ratios and these should probably not be compared to heavier tractors purely on the basis of horsepower at least for grapple sizing. You list your midrange grapples as suitable for CUTs up to 55hp but my 40hp Kioti CUT is almost exactly the same weight and loader strength as the 65hp Kioti. Why would the midrange grapple not be sized according to something more relevant than horsepower??? Seems like your most recent (55" single 75hp limit) is really only needed for utility tractors as the similar midrange model below it would certainly stand up to any CUT sized tractor even if Ted was the operator. I will remind you that my tractor has a 48" Millonzi grapple made of 3/8" mild steel with a very unsophisticated design compared to the recent EA offerings. It has stood up to over 8 years of pretty intense grapple work. An identical grapple has been mounted to a TBN member's M59 for about the same time and that grapple is also still doing fine. These Millonzi's are comparable to your light duty 50" single lid for compacts up to 35. Surely the larger midrange EA grapple will stand up to ANY compact tractor on the market (and please don't make up BS marketing terms like "MegaCompact"). Unless EA has empirical evidence that a 65hp tractor of the same weight and loader strength as a sub 55hp compact can somehow magically put more stress on a grapple, then don't try to upsell unnecessary steel to CUT owners. Their net lift capacity and wallet weight will drop substantially without improving their grapple experience. It is almost silly to see your catalog proclaiming the virtues of lighter grapples when the 55 weighs almost 300lbs more than the 54 midrange. You say that Ted's L6060 (presumably a "Megacompact" in your terminology) would need the new 55" grapple but if you look at the specs for the L6060 compared to my Kioti DK40se, the Kioti has a higher rated loader, higher hydraulic output and essentially the same weight. Extra horsepower is irrelevant in grapple selection. Why would Ted need the 600+lb grapple when my puny 300lb grapple has survived eight years of abuse on a nearly identical sized tractor?

As often discussed, the problem with buying grapples is that virtually nobody (other than Xfaxman) does it more than once. That puts the buyer at a serious disadvantage as they are buying a piece of equipment they have never operated before and are therefore lacking personal experience to help them decide on size and type etc. Given the all American tendency to oversize everything from hamburgers to tractors, most folks with the cash will buy bigger even if they don't really need it or if smaller would be more efficient. I think you do your CUT owner potential customers a disservice by implying that the midrange 54" grapple line is not appropriate for something like Ted's L6060. If his L has the same weight, lift and size as a 40hp CUT, then it should have the same grapple. HP is for running things off the PTO and is quite simply irrelevant for grapple selection.

Sell the 55 for heavy utility tractors. It's a beautiful grapple but oversized for CUTS. The 54 is more than adequate strength for ANY CUT on the market today.

Oh yea, one more thing, if you want to make improvements on the 54, make the jaw open a few inches wider. My puny Millonzi somehow opens past 40" (?42) so I know you guys can do it without needing to add 300lbs of excess steel.

Wow, that's deep. I know you mean well but you give me a headache sometimes! :laughing:

Keep in mind that someone here at EverythingAttachments talks to every single customer that orders a Wicked Grapple......even if they order it on our website, I call them personally to make sure they've chosen the proper one for their tractor and their needs.

I do not know of a totally cut and dry method of marketing them on our website that is better that what we are doing now. It seems to be working.
I'll keep thinking about it.
Travis

 

[4570Man]

HP is a pretty meaningless number. A 60 hp tractor that weighs 4,500 pounds and a 60 hp tractor that has been ballasted to 11,000 pounds are in a whole different class.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

HP is a pretty meaningless number. A 60 hp tractor that weighs 4,500 pounds and a 60 hp tractor that has been ballasted to 11,000 pounds are in a whole different class.

I agree. See my last reply. There's no easy way to have a concrete recommendation. There are more people out there that understand horsepower than people that understand ballasted weight.
Heck, more than half of the people that I talk to don't even know how wide their tractor is. Do you think they know how much it weighs?
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

The 55" Single Lid Wicked Utility Grapple is now LIVE on the website!

Check it out. I think it looks awesome!
Travis

 

[newbury]

Can you put together a simple chart showing the differences in materials used for similar sized grapples. I think that would be of help to many.<snip>

I agree, it's difficult to compare, we are usually ordering sight unseen.

It is almost silly to see your catalog proclaiming the virtues of lighter grapples when the 55 weighs almost 300lbs more than the 54 midrange.

And costs $500 more.

<snip>
As often discussed, the problem with buying grapples is that virtually nobody (other than Xfaxman) does it more than once. That puts the buyer at a serious disadvantage as they are buying a piece of equipment they have never operated before and are therefore lacking personal experience to help them decide on size and type etc. Given the all American tendency to oversize everything from hamburgers to tractors, most folks with the cash will buy bigger even if they don't really need it or if smaller would be more efficient. I think you do your CUT owner potential customers a disservice by implying that the midrange 54" grapple line is not appropriate for something like Ted's L6060. If his L has the same weight, lift and size as a 40hp CUT, then it should have the same grapple. HP is for running things off the PTO and is quite simply irrelevant for grapple selection. <snip>

Well written.

<snip>
Heck, more than half of the people that I talk to don't even know how wide their tractor is. Do you think they know how much it weighs?
Travis

I think a lot of us on TBN do, especially if we trailer it.

I too am confused as to where the extra 300 lbs shows up on the

Wicked Single Lid Root Grapple for Large Compact and Utility Tractors 55"

versus the

ETA-SLRG-54 54" Single Lid Wicked Root Grapple

. I see a wider lid and a larger opening but the weight almost doubles.

And going by the ad copy:

Several hundred pounds of unnecessary dead weight on the front of your tractor can make it feel sluggish and less agile,
so installing a HEAVY GRAPPLE just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!

it seems to steer me towards the ETA-SLRG-54 for my 47HP M4700 which weighs about 4,000 lbs WITHOUT loader and is presently 77.5" wide.

 

[IslandTractor]

And going by the ad copy: it seems to steer me towards the ETA-SLRG-54 for my 47HP M4700 which weighs about 4,000 lbs WITHOUT loader and is presently 77.5" wide.

That is exactly what I would get and IMO is the exact grapple that virtually anyone with a 35-65 HP size CUT would be happy with.

Tractor width is really not very important as the grapple behaves like the bow of a ship and pushes brush away from the wheels. You only drive as far into brush as it takes to fill the grapple so it's not necessary to create a full width path.

There are many advantages to a narrow grapple and only a few for a wide grapple unless you are primarily engaged in construction.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Can you put together a simple chart showing the differences in materials used for similar sized grapples. I think that would be of help to many.
I agree, it's difficult to compare, we are usually ordering sight unseen.

Yes, I am working on a chart.

It is almost silly to see your catalog proclaiming the virtues of lighter grapples when the 55 weighs almost 300lbs more than the 54 midrange.

Why would it be silly? Don't you proclaim the virtues of lighter grapples?

The 54" is IDEAL for compact tractors from around 35HP up to 55HP. It weighs 349 pounds. 37" opening. We have one that's even lighter for less than 35HP.

The 55" is IDEAL for HEAVIER utility tractors up to 75HP that have more pushing ability, twisting power, ramming power, down pressure, lift capacity etc.. It weighs 627 pounds. 42.5" opening. Ideal. We offer this one in a narrow 55". Why? Because IslandTractor and others boast about a narrow grapple ALL THE TIME and I pretty much agree with him. I hear people all the time bragging about their heavy duty grapple that is 850 pounds. NOT IDEAL!!



I commented that more than half the people I talk to do not know how wide their tractor is.

I think a lot of us on TBN do, especially if we trailer it.

It's true, trust me. Many people have no clue.
BUT, that is why we are here. To educate and guide customers in the right direction.
Just because people on TBN know the weight and width of their tractors doesn't mean that a high percentage of our callers do.

And going by the ad copy: it seems to steer me towards the ETA-SLRG-54 for my 47HP M4700 which weighs about 4,000 lbs WITHOUT loader and is presently 77.5" wide.

That would most likely be my pick, unless certain circumstances told me otherwise.

The M series is technically a utility tractor. The L5240 is technically a compact tractor. They're fairly similar. That is why there's not a simple, cut and dry method of grapple recommendation.
Many times, we need to talk through things to make a solid, educated recommendation.

Travis

 

[Xfaxman]

Quote Originally Posted by newbury&IslandTractor

Can you put together a simple chart showing the differences in materials used for similar sized grapples. I think that would be of help to many.
I agree, it's difficult to compare, we are usually ordering sight unseen.

Yes, I am working on a chart.

-------------------------------------------

Travis

Be sure to put the chart on the new grapple Website: Wicked Root Grapples

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, I am working on a chart.


Why would it be silly? Don't you proclaim the virtues of lighter grapples?

The 54" is IDEAL for compact tractors from around 35HP up to 55HP. It weighs 349 pounds. 37" opening. We have one that's even lighter for less than 35HP.

The 55" is IDEAL for HEAVIER utility tractors up to 75HP that have more pushing ability, twisting power, ramming power, down pressure, lift capacity etc.. It weighs 627 pounds. 42.5" opening. Ideal. We offer this one in a narrow 55". Why? Because IslandTractor and others boast about a narrow grapple ALL THE TIME and I pretty much agree with him. I hear people all the time bragging about their heavy duty grapple that is 850 pounds. NOT IDEAL!!



I commented that more than half the people I talk to do not know how wide their tractor is.

It's true, trust me. Many people have no clue.
BUT, that is why we are here. To educate and guide customers in the right direction.
Just because people on TBN know the weight and width of their tractors doesn't mean that a high percentage of our callers do.




That would most likely be my pick, unless certain circumstances told me otherwise.

The M series is technically a utility tractor. The L5240 is technically a compact tractor. They're fairly similar. That is why there's not a simple, cut and dry method of grapple recommendation.
Many times, we need to talk through things to make a solid, educated recommendation.

Travis

Look, I know that it is difficult to give simple advice on grapple purchase when you know very little about the purchaser and what their likely needs are. My critique of your current marketing blurb for the 55" 600+lb grapple is not aimed at someone pondering using it on a true heavy utility tractor. My criticism was based on the fact that you guys seem to be pushing this grapple model for CUTs between 55hp and 75hp. Ted's L6060 is a good example. I explained in my earlier post that there is NO practical difference for grapple selection between Ted's L6060 and my 40hp DK40se. In fact, if anything, my tractor has a more powerful loader although the two machines weigh almost exactly the same in stock form so the two should really be running the same "weight" grapple. Anyone with an L6060 who looks at your website would come away quite confident that the correct grapple model was the new 55 rather than the ETA-SLRG-54. That's a problem IMO.

I also think it is a problem that you guys have introduced (at least I've never seen it used elsewhere) the concept of a "megacompact". That's just marketing baloney piled on top of manufacturers marketing baloney. You guys know perfectly well that the CUTs with more than 50hp ALL have the same frame and weight and loaders as their lower horsepower siblings in the same lineup. The Kioti NX6010 is identical to the NX4510 as far as weight, loader strength, hydraulic output etc. Same for the L series Kubotas using the same loader. I know there is no completely reliable "cut off" for when a CUT should be matched with a larger grapple but CLEARLY horsepower is not reliable at all so why set up your marketing to so clearly delineate horsepower as the important factor?

A simple algorithm based table would help educate customers and steer them towards the right grapple better than any difficult to remember naming system. It could be as simple as the following: A) Is your tractor less than 36hp and less than 3000lbs dry weight (get both of these from your manufacturer's website spec page). If so then consider the light weight 50" grapple. If your tractor is more than 36hp and more than 3000lbs but less than 5000lbs weight then consider the 54" middle duty grapple. If your tractor is between 5000-8000 lbs from the factory (do not include ballast, implements etc) then regardless of tractor horsepower, consider the 55" heavy duty grapple. Obviously this needs some work but the general idea is that there are a few basic questions that can properly steer the potential purchaser in the right direction. There might be exceptions to the rule and those could be discussed in a FAQ section.

It is difficult for new tractor owners and even a challenge for experienced CUT owners to educated themselves about how to match the correct grapple for their tractor. A bit of explanation in your marketing materials would help a lot. When I was first looking into grapples, I found the WRLong website very useful because they had an excellent FAQ section (not sure if they still do) that addressed a lot of these common issues. Developing simple FAQ answers to grapple weight, type, width, lids, mounts, hydraulic options etc would help orient them to the issues. Discussing the pros and cons of width, weight etc with reference to specific grappling tasks would allow them to ponder exactly how they might match a grapple to their intended uses. Discussing grappling no no's and basic principles like centering a load etc would also be useful. It is sometimes hard for folks who deal with grapples every day to understand just how clueless some purchasers are so it is even necessary to discuss things like the fact that grapples don't do a good job at raking leaves or picking up individual sticks etc.

I know it is important to convince the customers to buy from you but putting a bit of effort into general grapple education can pay off even more than giving new grapples fancy sounding names with arbitrary size cut offs. Having a FAQ page that gets lots of Google hits would drive business to you. Helping potential customers to self educate can be a better marketing strategy than just hollering "buy this one!".

Most grapple manufacturers are just building commodity items and focusing on sales. You guys (Ted and Travis) are the only ones who come close to Nelson Long in being recognizable personalities who are associated with grapples for CUT owners. Ted is famous for his many excellent "how to" videos but matching a grapple size and type to tractor is a bit more complicated and perhaps better done with words, tables and diagrams than video.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Here is a chart. Let me know what can be done differently. It needs to be simple and easily understandable.

If you have a recommendation for the rating column, it needs to be simple so it can be incorporated into the chart.
There are 3 basic categories:

50" single lid
54-72" compact
55/73" utility

SIMPLE is the key word.

We aim to please.
Thanks
Travis

 

[IslandTractor]

That's helpful. I recognize the Excel spreadsheet look and it might be better to increase font size or play with the formatting so there is not quite as much white space.

The names are easier to understand. Maybe the 50 needs its own name (light duty compact??) but the simple light duty, compact and utility designations are much easier to grasp.

I'm glad to see the "mega compact" term removed but the horsepower breakpoint is still in there. Just doesn't make sense to me. I like the idea of calling the 627lb grapple utility instead of compact though.

Can you explain the weight difference between the 54 single compact and the 55 single utility. Yes, it is clear the utility is 9 inches longer (I presume bottom tines are longer) and I suppose the upper jaw must also be longer and wider but there must be some other significant amount of steel somewhere that isn't obvious. Both use the same 3/8"A572 steel and have the same number of tines. Does the utility grapple use a different size square tube??? Are the outside bottom tines doubled up on the 55?? The 55 weighs close to double what the 54 does. I can't make the math work on how that happens.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Can you explain the weight difference between the 54 single compact and the 55 single utility. Yes, it is clear the utility is 9 inches longer (I presume bottom tines are longer) and I suppose the upper jaw must also be longer and wider but there must be some other significant amount of steel somewhere that isn't obvious. Does the utility grapple use a different size square tube??? Are the outside bottom tines doubled up on the 55?? The 55 weighs close to double what the 54 does. I can't make the math work on how that happens.

We didn't stray far from our original Wicked Design. It's proven, people love it and it just plain works. Tubing and tine thickness is the same on the lower body.
The plate steel, strong gusseting and framework on the lids is heavier. Cylinder mounts, hinges and hitch are all areas that are beefed up.
The main difference that translates into weight is that it is physically much larger.

Pictures are worth 1,000 words! We love pictures, right?
54" Wicked Compact beside a 55" Wicked Utility
The difference is pretty obvious when they're side by side.
Travis

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Why did we beef it up? For crazy people like this. Please don't try it!!

 

[IslandTractor]

Where's the little one? We need to see a family photo of baby bear along with momma and papa bear.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Where's the little one? We need to see a family photo of baby bear along with momma and papa bear.

That would also be informative. I can make it happen when daylight returns!
Travis

 

[newbury]

Why did we beef it up? For crazy people like this. Please don't try it!!

Wouldn't you get more traction with the rear wheels on the ground

 

[lostcreekranch]

Ok, for my wish list, a 200 lb. grapple with 60" opening?

I have an 84" BD grapple with 34" opening and 900+ lbs. so, just as well shoot for the stars!




In all seriousness, my second grapple, for 46 HP LS tractor, will be used exclusively for limbs from trimming trees, brush, i.e. light loads. I want large opening to grab as much as possible. Don't give a rats ***** about heavy as, I have above big grapple on a 100 HP tractor, for trees, etc.

I think the new 55" utility grapple is best, I have found so far, to meet my needs.

The new chart is excellent but, I hope new, 1st grapple customers, will take advantage of visiting with the EA guys, on the phone, before making a final grapple selection?

My 2cents worth.


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