Trading in truck without catalytic convertor

[Blizzard0308]

When I traded in a vehicle this year I had to sign a document that stated that the vehicle still had all the emissions equipment on it that it came with from the factory.

 

[LD1]

You're asking for legal advice from a bunch of tractor drivers and backyard mechanics that are used to doing what they want regardless of the law.

Not really asking for legal advise. Again, not my truck. But could very easily see myself in this situation. Basically asking if anyone else has herd of this? Had this happen to them? Etc Etc. Certainly aint the only truck in the world to be traded in with the emissions system not in perfect order.

A 15-minute visit/talk with an attorney could save months of grief.

that is his plan. Just waiting on the outcome. But I hate waiting, so I posted the topic here for some good discussion.

When I traded in a vehicle this year I had to sign a document that stated that the vehicle still had all the emissions equipment on it that it came with from the factory.

Playing devils advocate......

He didnt buy the truck new. He didnt remove the cat or tamper with it. Lots of people out there dont have a clue what a catalytic converter is. Thats why people take vehicles to dealers for tune-ups, repairs, etc.....because they dont have a clue. The dealer is the "expert" and knows what they are looking for.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

If you live in a county that does not have an emission inspection there is nothing they can do. If I remember correctly he bought it used. He has no way of knowing, if the previous owner did anything. Also, my point on my previous response was it is so easy to do and hide he is not the expert the dealer is. So, even if you live in a county that has an emissions inspection he bought it used. It passed an emissions inspection how is he supposed to know, the dealership are the experts. don't just walk away run!

 

[LD1]

Did find this in Ohio anti-tampering laws

When you trade in a vehicle, you actually are selling the vehicle to a dealer. Trading in a tampered vehicle therefore
violates the anti-tampering law. Under this scenario, a judgment could be made requiring the sale to be rescinded and
possibly requiring you to pay damages to the dealer. If the vehicle dealer sells that vehicle to someone else in the same
tampered condition, the dealer, not you, would be held liable for that sale to the consumer. This does not keep the dealer
from seeking legal action against you.

Seems from a legal standpoint, the dealer is indeed in the right here. But the question becomes how far are they willing to push it without jeopardizing the deal and going back to square 1?

And impossible to prove, but what are the odds that the dealer DID know about the missing cat, and already adjusted the trade-in value, but knowing the law.....trying to have their cake and eat it to. Kinda double dipping so to speak?

While the cat is an expensive repair, especially on a 5.9L cummins, It certainly isnt the only kind of tampering. Some other examples are things like removed air pumps, plugged vacuum lines to EGR's, heck, even installing dual exhausts in a vehicle that didnt have that as a factory option are all emissions tampering. And something I didnt know, it is illegal to install an older engine in a car. So lets say you have a 1996 chevy truck with 5.7L, it would be considered tampering to get a junkyard motor out of a 1995 and drop in there.

And same with going from HD platforms to LD platforms. IE: you cannot take a 5.7L motor out of a 3500 truck and put in a camaro.

How much of this stuff goes on all the time unnoticed?

 

[tman1020]

I purchased a truck one time from a dealer in A county that did not have emissions and did not realize it did not have a catalytic converter on it. I live in a county that requires emissions in order to get plates. When I went to get emissions checked for my plates I was denied because of the lack of catalytic converter and was told that the one I purchased it from was responsible. According to them at the time it is illegal to sell a vehicle without a catalytic converter if it came with one from the factory. As it turned out I returned to the dealer and they did agree to install a catalytic converter but we're not happy about it.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Stand by original statement. Dealership is the expert how is he supposed to know. That may be the law, but going to court and getting judgement is a different story. Kinda ballsy on the dealerships part. The more I read the law that you have posted the more insane that it becomes. knowing all of the above. i would tell them no not paying for it. If they want the truck back i would be willing to give it back. For a thousand dollars I just don't see the dealership pushing. I might consider settling for say $300 just to make it go away.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I purchased a truck one time from a dealer in A county that did not have emissions and did not realize it did not have a catalytic converter on it. I live in a county that requires emissions in order to get plates. When I went to get emissions checked for my plates I was denied because of the lack of catalytic converter and was told that the one I purchased it from was responsible. According to them at the time it is illegal to sell a vehicle without a catalytic converter if it came with one from the factory. As it turned out I returned to the dealer and they did agree to install a catalytic converter but we're not happy about it.

That is different they are the experts they are the dealer.

 

[davesl708]

Stand by original statement. Dealership is the expert how is he supposed to know. That may be the law, but going to court and getting judgement is a different story. Kinda ballsy on the dealerships part. The more I read the law that you have posted the more insane that it becomes. knowing all of the above. i would tell them no not paying for it. If they want the truck back i would be willing to give it back. For a thousand dollars I just don't see the dealership pushing. I might consider settling for say $300 just to make it go away.

I agree on negotiating on a settlement. If the deal falls through the guy is going to have to fix the emissions before he can sell it.
As to the original owner being responsible for the modification it will be his word against the original owners word. The original owner will claim it was fine when I sold it.

The law is setup to get the emission back to OEM standards. The law doesn't care who pays for it. You cannot sell a vehicle with modified emissions. The guy will end up on the hook for the repairs. It is just a matter of how much he has to pay.

Make a deal with the dealer. They don't want the truck back anymore than this guy wants the deal to fall through.

 

[ustmd]

That's why it's important to know the state law regarding transfer of vehicles. It doesn't make any difference what "papers" were signed if the contract is incomplete. (A value given for a value received.) It may become a "no-contract" and thus non-binding.

Check the law! That's all I'm saying. It may be that the dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on but the guy better check before cutting off negotiations. Being a smart-arse never wins.

+1 +1 +1

 

[LD1]

Stand by original statement. Dealership is the expert how is he supposed to know. That may be the law, but going to court and getting judgement is a different story. Kinda ballsy on the dealerships part. The more I read the law that you have posted the more insane that it becomes. knowing all of the above. i would tell them no not paying for it. If they want the truck back i would be willing to give it back. For a thousand dollars I just don't see the dealership pushing. I might consider settling for say $300 just to make it go away.

Here is where I got that law from
http://epa.ohio.gov/portals/27/echeck/docs/tamper_law.pdf

And the FAQ's are a good read
http://epa.ohio.gov/portals/27/echeck/docs/exhaust_repair_guidelines.pdf

Lot of stuff I didnt know.