My Ice storm/ generator lessons

[JFoy]

I never could find a 220volt KilloWatt monitor either and ended up buying a TED breaker box monitoring system. Expensive and I got additional monitors to follow other circuits but now I can tell you about my hot water heater usage, HVAC, office computers, etc. Here's what I got: The Energy Detective Pro Home Real-Time In-Home Electricity Monitor: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
"Energy Detective Pro Home Real-Time In-Home Electricity Monitor" from Amazon.

 

[KYErik]

On the topic of voltage- I have an old Honda 3500 watt 2pole genny that uses engine speed to determine voltage. The governor works pretty well at responding to load, but I lose about 7 volts from light load to full load.

What is the best voltage to set the rpm adjustment to avoid problems with circuit boards/electronics? 125 volts at light load (118 at full load)? Or 120 volts at light load (113 volts at full load)? Or a slightly lower voltage?

 

[cqaigy2]

On the topic of voltage- I have an old Honda 3500 watt 2pole genny that uses engine speed to determine voltage. The governor works pretty well at responding to load, but I lose about 7 volts from light load to full load.

What is the best voltage to set the rpm adjustment to avoid problems with circuit boards/electronics? 125 volts at light load (118 at full load)? Or 120 volts at light load (113 volts at full load)? Or a slightly lower voltage?

Maybe drive a UPS with your Honda?

 

[brokenot]

+/- 7 volts isn't a huge thing. What kind of frequency fluctuation are you seeing with the change in rpm? We have a lot of equipment at work with onboard generators in the 6-7K range. Most of these machines have control circuit boards on the load of some type....and the lack of failures is pretty amazing. These are rental units, so all of the typical rental customer caveats come into play. Since some of these machines run 24/7 unattended, (heating or ground thawing applications), some other "operator-induced" things happen....such as running out of fuel at full load. Of course, while running out of fuel, (these are small diesels), the normal rpm surging takes places for a minute or so until the engine finally dies. To add insult to injury, the customer that ran the genset out of fuel in the first place forgets that he or she didn't switch any of the loads off before refueling. Fuel is added and, (maybe), the lines are bled out. As the engine is cranked, the normal spittin' and sputterin' goes on before all of the air is purged and the engine runs cleanly at its governed rpm again. A rough estimate of the total amount of time that elapsed while the engine was running out of fuel initially and the time it spent sputtering back to its governed rpm under load after refueling is probably two minutes....per occurrence.

During the heating season, this scenario is repeated several times per machine. And with 30+ of these out on rent, control board failures are rare. The last one I replaced was a couple of years ago. The heaters that use VFDs to control the blower fan speeds, well...that's another story altogether. VFDs are much touchier when it comes to input voltage and frequency than the control boards are. I should also say that these control boards are all off the shelf items from the big vendors that supply the HVAC industry. They aren't extra-robust, purpose-built controls designed to be used with gensets.

I'm a big fan of clean, stable power, but having said that....I think worrying about +/- a few volts is unnecessary.

 

[3930dave]

Good point brokenot about VFDs vs. frequency, old induction motors would often put up with a great deal in comparison.

My rule of thumb for motors+gens is the same as me lifting weights - if it causes a noticeable grunt, think twice about taking on more.

Kudos to OP for this thread...... may save some folks some $$, and has been pointed out, many times you can't find a repairman that fast !

Rgds, D.

 

[Ken45101]

On the topic of voltage- I have an old Honda 3500 watt 2pole genny that uses engine speed to determine voltage. The governor works pretty well at responding to load, but I lose about 7 volts from light load to full load.

What is the best voltage to set the rpm adjustment to avoid problems with circuit boards/electronics? 125 volts at light load (118 at full load)? Or 120 volts at light load (113 volts at full load)? Or a slightly lower voltage?

Either choice is within specs for your regular utility voltage.

 

[Ken45101]

Reason 2. They were too heavy for one guy easily handle at around 80 pounds. I can handle the 40 pound generator. Reason 3. They burn more fuel all the time VS running 2 generators only when needed.

I know what you mean about the extra weight however, that can help provide security: the heavier unit is less likely to walk off than the lighter one.

Have you actually measured the fuel economy? The Honda units are quite efficient on ECO mode. Remember, a 3000 watt gen will idle down with a 1500 watt load whereas a 2000 watt unit will be running flat out.

I do know that the Honda EU3000i is even quieter than the 2000i at the same loads (we have both). BTW, you can parallel generators of different sizes, such as the 2000 and 3000.

 

[bluestem99]

We live out in the sticks and the utility co likes to leave our little neighborhood last on the list during outage events so we bought a Honeywell 7900 watt generator a while back. I hook it up to one of these:Amazon.com : Reliance Controls 31406CRK Pro/Tran 6-Circuit 30 Amp Generator Transfer Switch Kit With Transfer Switch, 10-Foot Power Cord, And Power Inlet Box For Up To 7, 500-Watt Generators : Manual Transfer Switch : Automotive for ease of use. The generator is pretty loud but it runs everything we need it to in the house, furnace, well pump, etc. I think all had for around a grand.

 

[stuckmotor]

The most unbelievable thing about your whole story is that you had a furnace guy show up by 1 the same day during a major weather event!

I noticed that too.

 

[4570Man]

I know what you mean about the extra weight however, that can help provide security: the heavier unit is less likely to walk off than the lighter one. Have you actually measured the fuel economy? The Honda units are quite efficient on ECO mode. Remember, a 3000 watt gen will idle down with a 1500 watt load whereas a 2000 watt unit will be running flat out. I do know that the Honda EU3000i is even quieter than the 2000i at the same loads (we have both). BTW, you can parallel generators of different sizes, such as the 2000 and 3000.

I haven't done actual test. Fuel economy is excellent going either way. Piggy backing the 2000 watt generators gives you 3200 watts continues vs 2400 watts with the 3000 watt. The 3000 watt one weighs 78 pounds vs 43 pounds of the 2000 watt generator. The 3000 watt one cost $2500 vs $900 for the 2000 watt one. The 3000 watt one in question is 65 decibels which is louder than the 2000 watt one. They make a different 3000 watt one which is cheaper and quieter, but it weighs 130 pounds. 130 pounds is is way too heavy for my use.

 

[woodlandfarms]

And then you could go the way we will on our new house Forget the generator.....

Elon Musk: Tesla home battery orders are "off the hook" - May. 6, 2015

 

[dragoneggs]

And then you could go the way we will on our new house Forget the generator.....

Elon Musk: Tesla home battery orders are "off the hook" - May. 6, 2015

Are you planning to augment with solar panels?

 

[4570Man]

And then you could go the way we will on our new house Forget the generator..... Elon Musk: Tesla home battery orders are "off the hook" - May. 6, 2015

What if the power is out for more than a day or two. You are still going to need something to recharge the batteries.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Seabeck, not sure what it is like further north but here Solar is only good for the summer from what I understand of the current solar panels (I could be wrong, would love to use solar and be off the grid completely).

4570 - I am not a prepper and in our area, we are finding power to be down about 24 hours worse case (we just had a massive windstorm and were without power for 12 hours). Most of the lines are getting buried around here. I am also not a prepper. I figure at this point I am too old and too fat to be much more than a zombie lunch. We will always have a generator around the farm, so after the batteries crap out we will go to gas if necessary. I would assume knowing my wife, that we will be in a hotel or shacked up with friends who have power by the time the generator is needed.

 

[dragoneggs]

I would love to have some solar but the ROI makes it very hard to justify in this area and for my needs. Took a solar energy engineering class long ago. At that time is definitely cost prohibitive. While solar technology has improved immensely during my lifetime, the cost is still too high for me. I type this while staring at another cloudy day and it looks like snow is coming. :cool2:

 

[3930dave]

Seabeck, not sure what it is like further north but here Solar is only good for the summer from what I understand of the current solar panels (I could be wrong, would love to use solar and be off the grid completely)

I'll apologize to OP, post a few brief comments and a link, then quit drifting the thread ......

Typically solar panels do better in the cold (less internal losses), and while you still obviously need sun, with snow on the ground most installations will get more reflected light. Less daylight hours in Winter can be partly offset by those factors.

Cost vs. benefit on solar - there are many factors that go into that calculation; everyone has to make their own call.

I look at solar as just one more tool, in my energy toolbox - in an extended outage, the small portable solar system I have at present will see duty for things like charging cell phones, running an AM/FM radio and an LED light or 2 - light loads that I don't want to fire up a gen for, saving fuel for specific runs of heavy loads..... That same system works well for camping. Money well spent, for me.

A good place for Alternative Energy info is homepower, they've been at this a long time:

Renewable Energy & Efficiency Technologies | Home Power Magazine

Rgds, D.

 

[dragoneggs]

I do know that the Honda EU3000i is even quieter than the 2000i at the same loads (we have both). BTW, you can parallel generators of different sizes, such as the 2000 and 3000.

True on the noise but you are not suppose to parallel different sized generators... at least that is true of Honda generators only pair identical units.

 

[newbury]

<snip>

Generator development has really embraced newer tech recently. Ive seen better mufflers installed, electric start kits on gennys as small as 5K. electronic notification pannels to give you advanced diagnostics to troubleshoot it as well as built in watt meters and frequency meters. Built in dual fuel options with the option to run propane with the flip of a switch. For $1000+ I could have had one of these in the 7500w run (9K surge) range.
<snip>

Or you could have bought a simple dual fuel for 8kw on sale for $650 http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/336996-smokin-deal-10-000watt-generator.html though Amazon sells it now for $1200

 

[pwright]

Some comments on solar. Our house is completely off-grid and powered by batteries fed from solar panels with a generator for backup. Really cloudy/overcast days definitely eats into the power generation but 3-4 hours of winter sunlight is enough to bring the batteries up to full after powering the house overnight. With the recent winter storms we have had to run the generator on several days between 4-8 hours per day depending on how much we ran the furnace versus the pellet stove. As 3930dave said, when we had snow on the ground the reflected light was a huge boost in power.

 

[LittleBill21]

Some comments on solar. Our house is completely off-grid and powered by batteries fed from solar panels with a generator for backup. Really cloudy/overcast days definitely eats into the power generation but 3-4 hours of winter sunlight is enough to bring the batteries up to full after powering the house overnight. With the recent winter storms we have had to run the generator on several days between 4-8 hours per day depending on how much we ran the furnace versus the pellet stove. As 3930dave said, when we had snow on the ground the reflected light was a huge boost in power.

what kind of generator are you running for your offgrid house?