Buying Advice Pretty Sure I have Narrowed It down to Two: Massey 2706e or Kubota MX5800

[AuburnAlum]

I suggested three rear remotes earlier because you mentioned box blade work. I use two remotes for top link and tilt link then the third is for the hydraulic scarifiers. A rear blade fully hydraulic has offset (one circuit) blade angle(one circuit), blade tilt or hitch tilt (one circuit) and the top link (one crcuit) so 4 circuits total.

Thank you for the education! To you and TripleR (and all the folks here ;-) )

 

[SDT]

Premise: I have no direct experience with the MF/Iseki 2706e. I have familiarity with the Kubota MX5800 though I have not owned one. I have extensive experience with Kubota and MF (and others) and limited experience with Iseki.

Facts: MF/AGCO is not Kubota. Nor is MF/AGCO Iseki. The 5 year warranty provided by AGCO for their Iseki produced machines is attractive and certainly worthy of consideration. $4,000 is a significant expenditure and certainly worthhy consideration.

Evidence: I just terminated an 8+ year experience with MF/AGCO and my two closest dealers (different locations of same dealer) due to exceptionally poor post sale treatment by BOTH MF/AGCO and their dealer(s). Both of my MF tractors (2007 and 2012) were replaced within the last two months (at non insignificant expense) by Kubota tractors because I simply had had enough such poor treatment.

I have a Kubota B1750 HST, bought new in 1994, with which I have had absolutely NO problems in the 21+ years that I have owned it. NOTHING, not so much as a fuse, fan belt or lamp bulb. NOTHING. Caveat: it has had excellent care and maintenance but so had both MF tractors).

Problems with both MF tractors started immediately upon delivery and were not satisfactorily rectified during the warranty period. After the warranty period, MF/AGCO/dealer simply washed their hands of EVERYTHING, whether previously worked on or not and insisted upon being paid second and third times to repair problems previously reported and worked on.

To be fair, neither of my MF tractors were made by Iseki, though both clearly stated "Massey Ferguson" on the hood, owners manual, warranty, invoice, etc.

In years past, I owned a small Iseki made tractor and found it to be well made and trouble free, though I owned it for less than two years.

The fundamental issue with MF/AGCO was much more post-sale treatment by BOTH MF/AGCO and their dealer(s) than the machines (though the quality of neither MF tractor approached that of my Kubota tractors).

Both Kubota and my local CNH/Kubota dealer have treated me well (not true of either MF/AGCO or its dealer), though I have no idea how good Kubota's warranty is because I have had no occassion to use it.

Bottom line: MF/AGCO: Never again. Nothing but Kubota in the future.

SDT

 

[TSO]

Premise: I have no direct experience with the MF/Iseki 2706e. I have familiarity with the Kubota MX5800 though I have not owned one. I have extensive experience with Kubota and MF (and others) and limited experience with Iseki.

Facts: MF/AGCO is not Kubota. Nor is MF/AGCO Iseki. The 5 year warranty provided by AGCO for their Iseki produced machines is attractive and certainly worthy of consideration. $4,000 is a significant expenditure and certainly worthhy consideration.

Evidence: I just terminated an 8+ year experience with MF/AGCO and my two closest dealers (different locations of same dealer) due to exceptionally poor post sale treatment by BOTH MF/AGCO and the dealer(s). Both of my MF tractors (2007 and 2012) were replaced within the last two months (at non insignificant expense) by Kubota tractors because I simply had had enough such poor treatment. I have a Kubota B1750 HST, bought new in 1994, with which I have had absolutely NO problems in the 21+ years that I have owned it. NOTHING, not so much as a fuse, fan belt or lamp bulb. NOTHING. Caveat: it has had excellent care and maintenance but so had both MF tractors). Problems with both MF tractors started shortly after delivery and were not satisfactorily rectified during the warranty period. After the warranty period, MF/AGCO/dealer simply washed their hands of EVERYTHING, whether previously worked on or not and insisted upon being paid second and third times to repair problems previously reported and worked on.

To be fair, neither of my MF tractors were made by Iseki, though both clearly stated "Massey Ferguson" on the hood, owners manual, warranty, invoice, etc. In years past, I owned a small Iseki made tractor and found it to be well made and trouble free, though I owned it for less than two years. The fundamental issue was much more post-sale treatment by BOTH MF/AGCO and their dealer(s) than the machines (though the quality of neither MF tractor approached that of my Kubota tractors).

Both Kubota and my local CNH/Kubota dealer have treated me well (not true of either MF/AGCO or its dealer), though I have no idea how good Kubota's warranty is because I have had no occassion to use it.

Bottom line: MF/AGCO: Never again. Nothing but Kubota in the future.

SDT

First: I feel your issues were definitely dealer related, as both of my local Massey dealers are stellar. The local Kubota dealer, while way overpriced on everything on their lot, is also good. I've heard people complain also about their Kubota, John Deere, NH, etc... Dealers also, and went to other brands because of it. It's unfortunate that you experienced a less than adequate dealer experience.

Second: Your MF machines were not typical of Iseki built Massey quality. Especially your Tafe built machine, which is well known to be problematic, and unfortunately, a bit of pre-purchase research may have been able to reveal that.... Unfortunately, that led you to experience the above dealer deficiencies.

Third: You are correct that your non-Iseki Massey units were not the "same quality" as Kubota. But then, in my experience with two new Iseki-Massey's and three new Kubota machines, the Kubota's haven't been up to the same quality level as my Massey's.

I certainly don't think that Kubota machines aren't quality builds, but it's not accurate for you to blanket statement that MF is not Kubota quality, unless you preface it more specifically.

 

[paulfun9]

Sorry, seems I hit a nerve. There is no noticeable difference TO ME. All tractors are good choices if you like what you buy. I prefer Kubota for many reasons, and wouldn't buy anything else. But, again, that's me...

No nerves were rattled by your post just stating the facts as I have seen and experienced them.
It seems that with the loader mounted -vs- fender mounted we might find some debate that is more than likely just as bad as the single -vs- dual pedal HST arrangement Personally I haven't found a loader mounted control that lets me sit back and relax in the seat on any brand machine, nor can I find one that lets me keep my arm on the arm rest and still use the control without being cumbersome to use. Still I have no problem with one or the other when using it but prefer the fender mount for ease of use during heavy loader usage.
Funny that I prefer gear over HST but want everything else to be based on comfort and the least amount of reach or work. But then again we are all different and when people are making a request for information here we should always be willing to discuss our personal choices and experience as it will ultimately help them to decide what is more important and what is best for them.

 

[AuburnAlum]

So as i have done more over analysis of my choices I just want to be comfortable with my purchase. Looking higher and lower and just wanted to share some of my work to perhaps save the time for folks down the line. (as it has helped me to look at older threads and not ask the same question) Here is my comparison of the Massey 1736 and the Kubota Grand L3560. Pretty close even on price about +1K for the Kubota.

 

[TSO]

So as i have done more over analysis of my choices I just want to be comfortable with my purchase. Looking higher and lower and just wanted to share some of my work to perhaps save the time for folks down the line. (as it has helped me to look at older threads and not ask the same question) Here is my comparison of the Massey 1736 and the Kubota Grand L3560. Pretty close even on price about +1K for the Kubota.

View attachment 453402

Once again, regarding hydraulic output, you need to understand the difference between total flow and specific flow. The L3560 does not run 12+ GPM to the implement circuit (loader, remotes). That number you posted was Implement Flow on the Massey, and Total Flow on the Kubota. If you did Total Flow on the Massey it would be a higher number.

Also, now that you're comparing the "premium" compact line instead of the more budget line (like you did originally) there are other considerations to pay attention to. For example, the HST on that Kubota series offers a Hi-Lo range on the 3-speed tranny. So in effect, you have 6 HST speeds. Certainly not necessary, but it does offer some added flexibility and usability depending on the job. That's technically a bonus for the Kubota.

Another consideration is the pedal setup. The Massey has the dual pedal design, whereas the Kubota has the single treadle pedal (rocker). People that love it love it...people that hate it hate it. I'm not a fan, however it's a very user specific thing. You may love or hate it, but it's something you should at least explore.

A final consideration is that Massey offers two additional years of warranty coverage over there Kubota, nothing to shake a stick at.

Both tractors will do the same exact work for you, and in truth, they are both very good machines, so that allows you to place some weight with your personal feelings once you spend time on both.

 

[AuburnAlum]

Once again, regarding hydraulic output, you need to understand the difference between total flow and specific flow. The L3560 does not run 12+ GPM to the implement circuit (loader, remotes). That number you posted was Implement Flow on the Massey, and Total Flow on the Kubota. If you did Total Flow on the Massey it would be a higher number.

Also, now that you're comparing the "premium" compact line instead of the more budget line (like you did originally) there are other considerations to pay attention to. For example, the HST on that Kubota series offers a Hi-Lo range on the 3-speed tranny. So in effect, you have 6 HST speeds. Certainly not necessary, but it does offer some added flexibility and usability depending on the job. That's technically a bonus for the Kubota.

Another consideration is the pedal setup. The Massey has the dual pedal design, whereas the Kubota has the single treadle pedal (rocker). People that love it love it...people that hate it hate it. I'm not a fan, however it's a very user specific thing. You may love or hate it, but it's something you should at least explore.

A final consideration is that Massey offers two additional years of warranty coverage over there Kubota, nothing to shake a stick at.

Both tractors will do the same exact work for you, and in truth, they are both very good machines, so that allows you to place some weight with your personal feelings once you spend time on both.

I like what the premiums have to offer with both the MF and Kubota HST drives. The feature of having an anti-stall guard is nice. I also like the station of the Grand and the Massey. The treadle or rocker pedal I am not a fan of, don't really hate it, just seems a bit awkward. Looking overall what I can compromise with. I feel I must have extendable lift arms and that cuts all the economy lines.

As for the Hydro flow. I can only blame MF for their crappy marketing and website. It really is irritating. Attached are the images I am working off of for the info. They only list total flow. Where the Kubota site sites both implement and steering flow along with total. I would assume Tractordata.com only take the info that the sites/marketing provide.

Honestly I keep trying to guide myself MF way. There are some other items I will publish (pricing etc) after I buy. But do not want to show my hand to the dealers if I have not shown too much already. Thanks again for the help!

 

[TSO]

View attachment 453409View attachment 453410

I like what the premiums have to offer with both the MF and Kubota HST drives. The feature of having an anti-stall guard is nice. I also like the station of the Grand and the Massey. The treadle or rocker pedal I am not a fan of, don't really hate it, just seems a bit awkward. Looking overall what I can compromise with. I feel I must have extendable lift arms and that cuts all the economy lines.

As for the Hydro flow. I can only blame MF for their crappy marketing and website. It really is irritating. Attached are the images I am working off of for the info. They only list total flow. Where the Kubota site sites both implement and steering flow along with total. I would assume Tractordata.com only take the info that the sites/marketing provide.

Honestly I keep trying to guide myself MF way. There are some other items I will publish (pricing etc) after I buy. But do not want to show my hand to the dealers if I have not shown too much already. Thanks again for the help!

View attachment 453409View attachment 453410

That number "at remotes" means implement flow. Add steering flow (separate pump) and you get Total Flow.

Again, both good brands. I lean toward Massey because the Iseki machines have really proven to be great on quality and reliability. But Kubota owners really love their Kubota's too, so I'm sure you'd be happy with either.

 

[AuburnAlum]

That number "at remotes" means implement flow. Add steering flow (separate pump) and you get Total Flow.

Again, both good brands. I lean toward Massey because the Iseki machines have really proven to be great on quality and reliability. But Kubota owners really love their Kubota's too, so I'm sure you'd be happy with either.

Ah, I see now. Sorry I have gotten so bleary eyed reading all this dang info. Still cannot find the steering flow but I get the implement flow.

 

[GManBart]

I feel I must have extendable lift arms and that cuts all the economy lines.

Once I put a Pat's Easy Change setup on my LS I never once used the extendable lift arm feature. The Pat's setup made it much, much faster, simpler, and safer to hook up an implement. When I paired that up with a hydraulic top link from Fit Rite Hydraulics it made it that much simpler.

As for the Hydro flow. I can only blame MF for their crappy marketing and website. It really is irritating. Attached are the images I am working off of for the info. They only list total flow. Where the Kubota site sites both implement and steering flow along with total. I would assume Tractordata.com only take the info that the sites/marketing provide.

Actually, in this case, their website was providing very specific information, you just have to know how to interpret it. Hydraulic flow to the remotes is implement pump flow. In short, the Massey has about 50% more pump flow to the implements compared to the Kubota. That generally only shows up in how fast the implements move...bucket curl/dump, etc. It's not the biggest thing, but it's nice to not have to wait on the machine constantly. They have similar numbers to the steering pump, and I can't recall ever reading anybody complaining about slow steering response with any modern machines, so it's probably not worth considering.