My Ice storm/ generator lessons

[Deere Dude]

The most unbelievable thing about your whole story is that you had a furnace guy show up by 1 the same day during a major weather event! :laughing:

:laughingon't let facts get in the way of a good story

 

[Industrial Toys]

Good story. A portable generator does not a standbye system make! I have seen fancy furnaces where the DC motors and computer boards run into the thousands. Plus service calls, plus (usually) weeks of down time waiting for parts. Foolharty to try and run such equipment with a cheap generator. There are good reasons why some 5000 watt gensets cost $500.00 and other 5000 watt units are $15,000.00, just for the genset.

Actually, the biggest issue I have with outages, is not the outage itself, but never knowing how long it will last.

 

[Tig]

I've been though a couple extended outages. Ice storm of 98, ten days no power. Summer blackout that followed a year or two later. Don't remember how many days, but that one spanned the border. And then two years ago a Christmas ice storm, four days no power.
Lesson learned; I don't like generators. I like neighbors with generators even less. The August black out was nice and peaceful until everyone rushed home to fire up the genny.
I do have an 9000W generator for extended outages. I power up for an hour or so in the morning for coffee, cooking, hot showers, and moving air. We have been heating with wood. I run it again in the late afternoon for an hour or so to cook and move air. I work from home and get through the day off a small inverter and storage batteries from the boat etc to power electronics. All electronics are on UPS, but during an outage they don't get used.
Upgrades planned: I have a 12V water pump I'd also like to install in parallel to my well pump. That would avoid pail flushing during the day.
I'd like to get a bit of solar power to sustain the electronics.
Things to consider: Keep fresh gas around. We barely got the coffee made last time, before I had to siphon the fuel from the snowmobiles.

 

[Ford850]

Actually, the biggest issue I have with outages, is not the outage itself, but never knowing how long it will last.

I agree 100%. Luckily, my co-op keeps us updated when they can on actual ETA's rather than telling us what they think we want to hear. Sometimes the outage is due to the main supplier to them, and those larger companies do not give good ETA's. If it's going to be over a day and they know it right from the start, tell us that please!

 

[Industrial Toys]

It was a week or more before service was restored during the BIG ice storm in the ninties. Why so long? Because of large scale damage and a shortage of resources? No! All the local line guys had booked vacation to go hunting. People weren't too happy when they found that out. I'm not blaming the guys, but here we were waiting day after day, thinking the crews would get to us soon, and they wern't even working!

 

[ultrarunner]

In Washington the sound really carries... otherwise it is dead calm...

A few years back the condenser motor on the heat pump was going out and the noise really travels...

I like quiet and willing to pay extra for it.

One of the nicest gen-sets I have ever used was a Honda Diesel... really just a whisper... this was at least 20 years ago... don't think they have been sold here for a long time...

 

[KubotainNH]

The Honda EU's are sweet machines but I couldn't justify the price. My FIL has one and I have used it, it is enough to get by on our house so I wanted one slightly larger to do a bit more comfortably (fridge, freezer, oil fired hot water/furnace, some lights). I started with a generac 4k, was quiet for it's time but loud compared to the inverter units plus the idle down on it only worked with 0 load. I got rid of it and ended up with this 3k+ inverter unit similar to this one- LIFAN Energy Storm 3,500-Watt 9 HP 270 cc Gasoline Powered Electric Start Inverter Generator with Remote - CARB-ESI3600iERCA - The Home Depot, bought from Sears on sale. It isn't quite as quiet as the Honda but still very quiet. I hear the neighbor's gen but not mine unless I'm at the window it is near, he's a few hundred feet away. I also started by putting a plug on the furnace and using extension cords. I now have a 6 pole transfer switch. The gen is set up so my wife or kids can easier get it online, I added big tires to it and the electric start is a huge plus. I never had issues with either the Honda or my current Lifan on ECO mode, the inverter is supposed to keep it clean. We seem to lose power between 3 and 5 days every other year or so. In 2014 we didn't have it on Thanksgiving day, that gen was running full tilt with micros and hotplates heating food. We did trip the overload a couple times before I unplugged one of the fridges. I don't generally run the gen at night, the house maintains temps pretty well but I would need to if it was below 0F.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

At our age we do not do camping very well, even though we are rural area tree farmers, we like our creature comforts. Also like other posters we are at the end of an aging overhead power distribution and the last to get back up in the area. So, we have a 100A emergency panel w/ all essential loads in it. Only the outside stuff, range/oven, drier, and electric furnace are not covered. This spring/summer I am going to feed the furnace blower from the aux panel so air can be circulated from wood heat. I have a 17.5KW Generac that powers the 100A panel. It powers all very nice and never full loaded even with all the aux electric heat units and plug in portables working. Have a 1 KW UPS ahead of the computers and other electronic gear associated. With the fireplace insert stoked up we are almost normal. The genny burns about 15 GL (tank size) of gas every 12 hours at that loading. I use Staybil 360 Marine in the gas and have a 50 GL transfer tank. Next step is a propane conversion kit (this spring). i have accumulated two 38 GL motor home propane tanks for fuel and need to fab up a rack so I can move out for re-fill. It's cheaper to take tanks out for filing than a delivery service here.

Just another idea someone may be interested in. Ask questions.

 

[dragoneggs]

In Washington the sound really carries... otherwise it is dead calm...

A few years back the condenser motor on the heat pump was going out and the noise really travels...

I like quiet and willing to pay extra for it.

One of the nicest gen-sets I have ever used was a Honda Diesel... really just a whisper... this was at least 20 years ago... don't think they have been sold here for a long time...

Quiet is good. :thumbsup: Thanks for the tip on Honda Diesel.. I will have to keep my eyes open.

 

[dragoneggs]

At our age we do not do camping very well, even though we are rural area tree farmers, we like our creature comforts. Also like other posters we are at the end of an aging overhead power distribution and the last to get back up in the area. So, we have a 100A emergency panel w/ all essential loads in it. Only the outside stuff, range/oven, drier, and electric furnace are not covered. This spring/summer I am going to feed the furnace blower from the aux panel so air can be circulated from wood heat. I have a 17.5KW Generac that powers the 100A panel. It powers all very nice and never full loaded even with all the aux electric heat units and plug in portables working. Have a 1 KW UPS ahead of the computers and other electronic gear associated. With the fireplace insert stoked up we are almost normal. The genny burns about 15 GL (tank size) of gas every 12 hours at that loading. I use Staybil 360 Marine in the gas and have a 50 GL transfer tank. Next step is a propane conversion kit (this spring). i have accumulated two 38 GL motor home propane tanks for fuel and need to fab up a rack so I can move out for re-fill. It's cheaper to take tanks out for filing than a delivery service here.

Just another idea someone may be interested in. Ask questions.

Hi Ron,

Good to hear from you... I am paying a penny or so under $2/gallon for LP here. Now that I own my own tank... got smart. I used to lease a big tank and that got me stuck with will overpriced fills... had to argue the $/gal each time. Back on topic, your 175.KW is almost 6 times the size of my 3K back up but dang, I cringed when I read your consumption rate.

 

[TomSeller]

I hate loud generators!!! Finally bought a Honda 3000is a few years back. Expensive but I love it. If I went bigger I would suck it up and pay for Honda. Don't know why I feel I have to sing the praises of Honda but I just do.

You should hear my air cooled 6 HP Yamaha pull start diesel. I only use it on a remote property that does not have commercial power with a LONG extension cord. But if my neighbors get out of hand I may use at my house

 

[dragoneggs]

You should hear my air cooled 6 HP Yamaha pull start diesel. I only use it on a remote property that does not have commercial power with a LONG extension cord. But if my neighbors get out of hand I may use at my house

Is your neighbor on 'your' remote property? :confused3: I'm understanding you are using a long extension cord off your neighbor's generator. :laughing:

Seriously I am getting interested in a diesel gen if they are as quiet as some say... diesel engine and quiet is an oxymoron in my book. What am I missing?

 

[3930dave]

Is your neighbor on 'your' remote property? :confused3: I'm understanding you are using a long extension cord off your neighbor's generator. :laughing:

Seriously I am getting interested in a diesel gen if they are as quiet as some say... diesel engine and quiet is an oxymoron in my book. What am I missing?

If ur is talking about the Honda diesel that I'm thinking of..... you probably have better odds with the Powerball... those Honda diesels are scarce, at least in Can/USA.

Fast answer..... start adding zeroes on the end of the price.....

Power Solutions

IIRC, they came up by supplying the movie industry - makes sense - shoot in remote locations, but need QUIET on set, and will pay a premium.....

If I ever come across a used one, I'd be willing to drive a few hours to check it out.

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

Multiquip seems to have the market for the small quiet diesel units today... both standalone, trailer mounted, light tower, etc...

Priced one years ago and it was around 6k

 

[Toyboy]

I'm not one to be the first with new technology aka. battery. If I ever decided to go that route, it'd have to be several years down the road when it's been proven to be all that was advertised.

Now with that being said, a few years back I had a Generac 20kw natural gas whole house gen-set installed. No muss, no fuss with fuel. As for the sound of it running, we have no problem with that. You can hardly hear it in the winter, and with it also powering our AC, summer is not an issue either. Some of you fellows must have some awful noisy units, or are more sensitive to the sound then we are.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Hi Ron,

Good to hear from you... I am paying a penny or so under $2/gallon for LP here. Now that I own my own tank... got smart. I used to lease a big tank and that got me stuck with will overpriced fills... had to argue the $/gal each time. Back on topic, your 175.KW is almost 6 times the size of my 3K back up but dang, I cringed when I read your consumption rate.

Mark, remember I am probably running 6 times as much stuff too. Two rooms with aux wall heaters plus 4 bathroom heaters; that adds up to around 6 KW potential right there on a cold day.

 

[4570Man]

I went outside and tested my Generac generator. It runs amazingly constant, but doesn't handle high start up loads well. It runs with about 1 volt either way of variation which is pretty darn good for a generator. It puts out about 123 volts under no load. Under 80% load which was a 1500 watt heat gun it maintains about 119 volts. My house outlets maintained 117 volts with the same load and about 125 volts under no load. What kills the electronics was start up voltage. The generator dropped to about 110 volts by unplugging and plugging the heat gun up. That is acceptable, so I decided to try a miter saw. This miter saw was rated to pull 10 amps, but start up must have been much greater. My generator is rated to produce a tad over 13 amps continues. Starting the miter saw dropped the generator down to about 40 volts. After about 3 attempts to start it it tripped the overload on the generator. I have a cheap, extremely loud 3,500 watt generator that I'm going to test later. The miter saw dropped the house outlet down to about 100 volts. We recently ran the house for about 5 days with a 8,000 watt welder/generator that had about 10 volts variation. It was loud and very thirsty.

 

[Industrial Toys]

One of many things I built after my experiences with the BIG ice storm. DVMs tended not to have frequency functions back then.

It's big and clunky (the way I like things) uses no batteries, and has no computer. The nicest thing is, you can easily adjust the two red lines with the knobs and have over voltage and under voltage alarming. LED or buzzer.

 

[3930dave]

I went outside and tested my Generac generator. It runs amazingly constant, but doesn't handle high start up loads well. It runs with about 1 volt either way of variation which is pretty darn good for a generator. It puts out about 123 volts under no load. Under 80% load which was a 1500 watt heat gun it maintains about 119 volts. My house outlets maintained 117 volts with the same load and about 125 volts under no load. What kills the electronics was start up voltage. The generator dropped to about 110 volts by unplugging and plugging the heat gun up. That is acceptable, so I decided to try a miter saw. This miter saw was rated to pull 10 amps, but start up must have been much greater. My generator is rated to produce a tad over 13 amps continues. Starting the miter saw dropped the generator down to about 40 volts. After about 3 attempts to start it it tripped the overload on the generator. I have a cheap, extremely loud 3,500 watt generator that I'm going to test later. The miter saw dropped the house outlet down to about 100 volts. We recently ran the house for about 5 days with a 8,000 watt welder/generator that had about 10 volts variation. It was loud and very thirsty.

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Older consumer level generators used to come with Tables in the Owner's Manual, that gave listings of typical motor Running watts and Starting watts. Startup takes way more power than many people realize.

In an extended outage, the odds keep creeping up that with a fridge, sump pump, freezer.... connected, you may have a chance alignment where more than one motor tries to start at the same time. Makes upsizing a gen or a solution like 90cummins is using attractive (4kw inverter w. Gen assist).

IMO any well designed consumer product should be able to handle short-term brownouts (a reality with some grid connections too), but it's nothing I like to push my luck on - I bought a 7kw gen last time.

Size up your loads, add at least 25%, then buy the quietest generator that fits your budget is what I suggest to real-world friends.

Rgds, D.

 

[4570Man]

Older consumer level generators used to come with Tables in the Owner's Manual, that gave listings of typical motor Running watts and Starting watts. Startup takes way more power than many people realize. In an extended outage, the odds keep creeping up that with a fridge, sump pump, freezer.... connected, you may have a chance alignment where more than one motor tries to start at the same time. Makes upsizing a gen or a solution like 90cummins is using attractive (4kw inverter w. Gen assist). IMO any well designed consumer product should be able to handle short-term brownouts (a reality with some grid connections too), but it's nothing I like to push my luck on - I bought a 7kw gen last time. Size up your loads, add at least 25%, then buy the quietest generator that fits your budget is what I suggest to real-world friends. Rgds, D.

I have a whole house 22,000 watt natural gas powered generator. If that doesn't keep up I'm doing something wrong.,