welders welders welders

[Sodo]

My projects keep getting smaller......especially since they talked me into the TIG.

But honestly,,,,,really,,,,, who, in the last 5 years has had any welder shutdown due to duty cycle? Please

1) describe the size of the job
2) the number of weeks until the newbie will encounter a job of this size.

We have one data point. Shield Arc started welding 2 weeks ago and had a job big enough to run up against duty cycle in the 3rd week. But that's not enough data to advise that 20% is insufficient.

Anybody else?

 

[sd455dan]

The welder i have owned the longest and had the most experience with is a 150 amp mig that is rated at a 12%@140 amps and 20% @ 120 amps, yet in over 25 years of use i can't remember it ever shutting down or even lighting the over temp light.

But now that I am trying to learn to tig Aluminum with my (new to me 1962 lincoln tig 300 -300 with it's 60% duty cycle @300 amps ) It becomes obvious when learning to weld 1/4 and 3/8s Aluminum that amperage at duty cycle is important.

Aluminum tig welding of thick pieces is the duty cycle/amp problem child jmo and:2cents:

 

[roadhunter]

I can't say I've had many issues with duty cycle in my welding projects. I'm sure it's an issue for some people but for the average hobby welder it's probably not that important. I can only think of a handful of times I 've had that happen and it never was a big deal. Take a quick break or find something else to do on the project for a few minutes. Outside tems seems to make a difference from my experience so it might be a bigger deal than I realize if you live in an area with temps about 100.

 

[Shield Arc]

When we built the Alaska ferry terminal in Bellingham Washington. I got stuck welding the pre cast concrete deck panels to the structural beams. I ran 70-pounds of wire a day at over 400-amps. 20% duty cycle wouldn't cut it on that project! :laughing:

 

[blue9249]

I bought a MIG/TIG/Stick Miller MultiMatic 200. It runs on 120v or 240v. All said and done (bottle, TIG kit, spoolgun) it's somewhere towards $3000. If I had to do it again I'd buy two $1149 Everlasts 211s then I wouldn't have to transport the Miller between my two shops. Or that 251 looks cool too.

It doesn't take much to get your MIG welding such that welds don't break. You could be making some simple error. I don't know how to tell what you're doing wrong but possibly could if I was watching you weld. Good luck with that one. Hopefully someone nearby can help you with that before you get working on that trailer. My MM200 stick-welds very nicely, much better than I recall with the old buzz-box, but I only stick weld for sport. Or if I have to jam it down into a dirty old crack. :shocked: MIG is much more productive (for me).

In that case I forgot to turn on the gas lol

 

[Sodo]

Blue next time turn on the gas. There I just added something to my teaching repertoire, I'm that much close to being an a TBN expert on "the gas". Or maybe you just gave me some hot air.

My experience is with "20% machines" and I have never had one shut down in 25 years. And if it did once, I'd pat myself on the back, not go buy a bigger machine. I tried HARD to get my 20% machine to shut down. I did a test, welded 25 minutes straight, 147 inches of welding.
I was beat :shocked: but the machine did not shut down (see this thread).
Understood the high power requirements of Aluminum welding are more of a concern but rarely is aluminum discussed on TBN, I bet 1 in 1,000 newbies is gearing up for aluminum.

Almost all newbies here are tractor fellas (not production-welders) looking at small projects in steel, and often advised to concern themselves with Duty-Cycle. Any employer who willing to pay a journeyman welder's wages to sit there while the machine cools down, is kind of a fool. But this problem does not exist on TBN, so my question is, how did this "Duty-cycle" always make it into TBN's list of things to watch for?

There is a very important part of that advice and it's a NUMBER, in %. Nobody seems to know. The guy at the welding store gets more $$$ for a bigger %, that we know. Newbies are going to the store, giving their money to a salesman simply because forum peers cant tell them "the number"? We can do better.

What is "the number" that will satisfy 97% of TBN's welder purchases, for Steel?

The thread mentioned above (called "Question about duty cycle") ran 4 pages without anyone contesting that 20% all good. Since no GENUINE expert is gonna step out and say "Enough about the duty cycles - 20% is plenty!" I'm going to say it. Howzzat? Sodo is the TBN expert on Duty-Cycle! The world is run by those who show up. Steve would be proud.




Send me your detailed questions on Duty-cycle, and I will answer it "20%", Need more than that? Sorry I'm tapped out.




C4Ranch I hope I'm not pi**ing you off I enjoy your posts - I'm just having some fun, but seems like duty-cycle needs discussion.

 

[ThomasH]

<snip>How did this "Duty-cycle" always make it into TBN's list of things to watch for?

I responded to this BS in previous discussions, and you insinuated that I was lying. No matter how you try, this is a simple discussion of needs, and others needs are not exactly the same as yours, believe it or not. From what he has said, very briefly, there is not enough specifics to know what "the ceiling" should be for him.

If you are interested in helping the guy you might want to inquire what metals, thicknesses, etc. that he knows he might be working with instead of going on and on about duty cycles...

 

[Shield Arc]

20% duty cycle means you can weld for 2-minutes in a 10-minute time frame. :thumbdown:

 

[Jim Timber]

My projects keep getting smaller......especially since they talked me into the TIG.

But honestly,,,,,really,,,,, who, in the last 5 years has had any welder shutdown due to duty cycle? Please

1) describe the size of the job
2) the number of weeks until the newbie will encounter a job of this size.

We have one data point. Shield Arc started welding 2 weeks ago and had a job big enough to run up against duty cycle in the 3rd week. But that's not enough data to advise that 20% is insufficient.

Anybody else?

Hit the thermal overload constantly with a Hobart Tigmate (econotig) transformer based welder. Haven't hit it since getting the replacement, but at 310A for 20% duty cycle my gloves run out of duty cycle long before the machine does. :laughing:

Seriously, 20% is nothing. There's a reason all the bigger machines are amperage rated to where they're 60% duty cycle. You still have 4 minutes out of 10 for arc off, but with a 20% you can only run 2 minutes out of the 10 minute window. 12 minutes useful arc time in an hour is not a lot. Even for a student it's downright painfully slow.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I've listed this before I think. But I've shut down or broken machines due to duty cycle several times.
I am not patient once items are fit and tacked - time to work and the welding machine needs to keep up.

This is why I recommended the tweco 211. A machine in this class has a high duty cycle in the midrange where most hobby/home use is done. Duty cycle becomes a non-issue.

The recommendation to look at duty cycles should not create arguments - a person should buy a machine that has a duty cycle in a range that they need at the amperage they intend to weld in.

For some it's 20% and never will be a problem, for others it's much higher - big deal.

I fail to understand the ranting being displayed over a very normal welder rating.