Backhoe JD 410C lost all hydraulics.

dmcb · Apr 9, 2016

The good news is I am about an hour from completing the task I bought this backhoe for.
The bad news is I have no hydraulics.
The story.
Blew a hyd. hose and replaced.
Oil is full and it worked fine.
For a few digs.
While doing a dig the hydraulics wouldn't pick up the load. Dumped the load and got it up.
Tried it again and it was normal so I started digging again. 2 loads and I lost hydraulics again but this time I couldn't get it up even empty.
Let it set overnight and tried it again. Hydraulics work enough for me to get the stabilizers and the hoe up. Also the bucket.
I moved it and the transmission worked normal.
Parked it and no hydraulics. Tranny still normal.
Changed the filter and nothing.
I do have a little power steering. Turns harder than it should but I can turn it with the machine stopped.
I suspect its the hydraulic pump and I'm OK with changing that. These things happen but I want to be sure that is what it is before I do.
Also is it as easy as it looks to replace. Ya I know nothing ever is but it looks like its not to bad a job.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Doug

beenthere · Apr 9, 2016

I'd suggest getting a pressure gauge and do some checking of pressures at various places and times. Need to track down the problem.
Are there any in-line screens that may have blown through and lodged in the control valves? Not sure if you have any or not on the 410C
Wish you good luck tracking it down. The work/not-work is puzzling.

bvahjen · Apr 9, 2016

beenthere said:
I'd suggest getting a pressure gauge and do some checking of pressures at various places and times. Need to track down the problem.
Are there any in-line screens that may have blown through and lodged in the control valves? Not sure if you have any or not on the 410C
Wish you good luck tracking it down. The work/not-work is puzzling.

Sounds like your hydraulic pump is air bound. Disconnect the output and pump some fluid into a bucket, similar to bleeding brakes.

Tx Jim · Apr 10, 2016

1st check to be sure frt pump shaft is turning with engine crankshaft. How long since hyd filters were changed & sump screen(parts key 25) checked?? I agree that one needs a hyd gauge and perform some diagnostics. Many frt hyd pumps have been replaced only to find out that hyd pump that was removed wasn't the hyd problem. JD CC hyd's such as a 410C should bleed any air out just by operation. Personally I think air isn't your tractors hyd problem. It's possible that a piece of trash has gotten lodged in the stroke control valve seat area which puts the frt hyd pump out of stroke therefore stopping pump from pumping oil.

Tx Jim · Apr 10, 2016

Does your tractor have the electric destroking solenoid? It would be located on frt hyd pump on I think LH side.

beenthere · Apr 10, 2016

Tx Jim
What does the electric destroking solenoid do ? just curious..

jenkinsph · Apr 10, 2016

beenthere said:
Tx Jim
What does the electric destroking solenoid do ? just curious..

It takes the hydraulic pump out of stroke so that it isn't pumping while you crank up the engine. Performs the same task as an unloader valve would making the pump easier to turn.

Tx Jim · Apr 10, 2016

Ditto what jenkinsph stated. Makes engine & hyd pump easier to turn over/start running

beenthere · Apr 10, 2016

:thumbsup:
Makes perfect sense now... tks

dmcb · Apr 10, 2016

Tx Jim said:
Does your tractor have the electric destroking solenoid? It would be located on frt hyd pump on I think LH side.

Yes it does. I wondered what that was.
I just changed the filter which was very clean.
The shaft is turning.
I should mention I lost a lot of oil when I blew the hose. I filled it and it worked after I replaced the hose.
One more thing I need to mention.
Since I have had this machine I felt it didn't lift a load like it should but never running one before I didn't have anything to compare it with.
I have been digging sand in water. The bucket was heaping but when extended all the way it wouldn't lift it straight up or struggled very hard to move it. If I brought the load in some it worked better. Today I ask a guy who operates one about that and he said it should lift the load or the front of the tractor. It has never came close to doing that.

Tx Jim · Apr 11, 2016

I think you need to get a 5000# gauge and check stand-by pressure. Pressure according to Tractordata.com should be 2755 psi. Just for grins after engine is started disconnect the electric destroking valve to be sure it's not causing the hyd problem.

Zebrafive · Apr 11, 2016

Tx Jim, does the pump I self have a filter/screen? I know my 2030 does.

jenkinsph · Apr 11, 2016

Zebrafive said:
Tx Jim, does the pump I self have a filter/screen? I know my 2030 does.

Cant hurt to check that too. Should be next to the stroke control on these pumps. Lots of people miss checking the small shot gun shell sized filters in the pump inlet. I have had it blocked on a used 4020 to the point the 3 pt lift would not raise.

I would agree with others on diagnosis before changing the pump, need to know where the problem is first.

Tx Jim · Apr 11, 2016

Zebra5
It appears neither style pump of 410C has a filter in the pump. I only posted photo of one style.
Jim

dmcb · Apr 12, 2016

Ordered a gauge. Of course I won't know what to do with it when I get it.

I will pull the radiator guard off and try disconnecting the switch when I get a free moment.
Looks like this will sit for the summer. Have to leave for Michigan May 1 and I have a lot to finish up before I go. Hate leaving something not working but what is, is.
Thanks for all the advise.
Will let you know about the valve.
Doug

KyleB83 · Jul 23, 2022

Tx Jim said:
Does your tractor have the electric destroking solenoid? It would be located on frt hyd pump on I think LH side.

Jim, would this have a single wire coming off the end of it? I am digging through everything 410c related here to see if it gets me closer on mine. Pre-starter problems, and even still, when cranking, the bucket starts pushing down, almost as if you are holding the lever while starting it. I thought it may be a leaking seal until I found a wire, well.. part of a wire on the pump just in front of the cab under the door where we fill it with hyd fluid

Tx Jim · Jul 24, 2022

410C hyd destroking valve(item 27) has 2 wire connections.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/59730/referrer/search/pgId/76832/partnumber/RE32529/callout/27

KyleB83 · Jul 24, 2022

Would this be it, victim to some aftermarket wiring?

Tx Jim · Jul 24, 2022

I don't recognize that electric component in your photo. My knowledge of JD industrial tractors is limited due to having been employed by "AG only equipment" JD dealer with NO industrial equipment sold at that particular dealership