Third function

[Bandit2026]

My son and I want to put a third function on a ck35. We have most of it figured out except fitting to replace banjo fitting. Also mounting of some parts. I'm sure someone has done or had it done for a grapple. Would love to have some pictures to help this along. Thanks

 

[countrybumpkin]

The fitting you will need to replace the banjo fitting is a male BSPP , you will have to measure the thread size to find out what size you need. I will look around and see if I can find the specs for BSPP fittings.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

My son and I want to put a third function on a ck35. We have most of it figured out except fitting to replace banjo fitting. Also mounting of some parts. I'm sure someone has done or had it done for a grapple. Would love to have some pictures to help this along. Thanks

British standard pipe perpetual. Hit up your local Parker or hydraulics jobber.

 

[N2DFire]

Thanks for the help so far guys!

As luck (or Murphys Law) would have it, when we had the bolt pulled, the calipers were at my place and not dad's so this was the best I could do with what I had.



Based on what you all are telling us & some standard dimensions I found HERE (and since 3/8" = 9.5ish mm) I'm guessing that we now need a 3/8" BSPP Male to NPT Female adapter (as I was previously leaning towards an M18X1.5 to NPT)

If someone out there with a bit more know how could "check my math" I would appreciate it.

I did run by the local Parker distributor today but trying to guess from pictures wasn't very productive.


Thanks again!

 

[countrybumpkin]

Look at the chart in the pic, it gives the O.D. In mm and inches for the BSPP

3/8 is 16.5 mm or 0.65 in

 

[N2DFire]

Look at the chart in the pic, it gives the O.D. In mm and inches for the BSPP

3/8 is 16.5 mm or 0.65 in

And this is where the world of hydraulic fittings gets confusing - just exactly what dimension of a "3/8 inch fitting" is the 3/8 inch referring to?

If you look at the 2nd picture I posted it looks like the width of our bolt is between 16 and 17 mm - which matches the 16.5mm or .65" in the chart you list.

Additionally, If you look at the 3rd picture I attached, the orifice opening is just under 10mm.

3/8" (or 0.375") is mathematically 9.5 mm and in the link I have there that shows the orifice size of the "3/8-19" banjo bolt as 9mm. Unfortunately it does not give a total OD of the threaded portion but obviously it must be larger than 3/8"

So with yours and Eric's vote on the BSPP as thread type, I think we've confirmed the size as a 3/8"

Now lets see if we can find some. LOL

Thank you for all the help thus far. Any other tips, tricks, or been there - done that's are still welcome.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Check surplus city or discount hydraulics.

 

[Xfaxman]

---------------------

Thank you for all the help thus far. Any other tips, tricks, or been there - done that's are still welcome.

When you don't have calipers, use an adjustable (Cresent) wrench on the OD, then measure the gap of the jaws with a ruler.

I have also used a C clamp on large diameter pipe or tubing, then measure the opening. Not super accurate, but better than eyeballing it.

 

[N2DFire]

Check surplus city or discount hydraulics.

Put my order in yesterday with Discount hydraulics. Got the BSPP conversion fittings, my couplers, some dual hose clamp blocks and some other misc fittings.

Already have our solenoid, subplate, and control grip (went w/ the piece mill JD setup). And I built a small controller board for the relays between the grip & the solenoid.

Basically we have everything in hand or on the way except the hoses and I have found a local supply house to make those.

Good Lord willing - this weekend we will:
Start fabbing up the mounting plate for the solenoid/subplate and get it mounted.
Get the new grip installed and all the wiring / electronic work done.
Fab & mount the front couplers on the cross tube
Get the measurements for all the hoses and decide which fittings we want on each & I'll get those fabbed up next week.

Should probably start ordering a grapple at some point too LOL :cool2:

When you don't have calipers, use an adjustable (Cresent) wrench on the OD, then measure the gap of the jaws with a ruler.

I have also used a C clamp on large diameter pipe or tubing, then measure the opening. Not super accurate, but better than eyeballing it.

Ya know - I dunno why I didn't think of that. Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best. :thumbsup:

Thanks Again everyone for the Hints & Help

 

[jabelding]

Any chance you would share the part numbers you ordered I want to do the same to my CK35.

 

[N2DFire]

Any chance you would share the part numbers you ordered I want to do the same to my CK35.

Absolutely! That's what we're all here for. :thumbsup:

We are actually planning on doing a complete write-up of this project with pictures, parts list (with sources), and cost; but for the sake of this thread the fittings I ordered are:

9035-06-06 | 3/8" BSPP Male x 3/8" NPTF Female
9035 - Male BSPP x Female NPTF

I opted for the 3/8" to 3/8" for 2 reasons
1) I'm cheap & the 3/8" to 1/2" was $10 more (each)
2) For the very short distance of the adapter & hose fitting - I don't *think* 3/8" vs 1/2" will make a big difference. I am planning on running 1/2" hose w/ 3/8" fittings from the loader valve to the subplate & subplate to 3pt connection and all the fluid flow is going thru the smaller orifices on the subplate & valve anyway.

Package Tracking shows I should have them today, and I will be test fitting them on Saturday while we have the seat off to do the other work so I'll be 100% sure then if I have the right thing or not.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Sounds as if your well on your way, I too ordered the JD grip and have been very pleased with it. I did the relays and also a master on/ off switch so i didn't accidentally hit a button and dead head the valve, when not in use.

 

[N2DFire]

Sounds as if your well on your way, I too ordered the JD grip and have been very pleased with it. I did the relays and also a master on/ off switch so i didn't accidentally hit a button and dead head the valve, when not in use.

A very good idea. I picked up a weatherproof toggle switch today and we'll add that to the wiring.

 

[N2DFire]

9035-06-06 | 3/8" BSPP Male x 3/8" NPTF Female
9035 - Male BSPP x Female NPTF

Package Tracking shows I should have them today, and I will be test fitting them on Saturday while we have the seat off to do the other work so I'll be 100% sure then if I have the right thing or not.

Well I did the test fitting today and these ain't it.

2 Things were clear though
1) The threads at least matched
2) 3/8" is too small

I did some more measuring (with real tools this time) and it looks like I needed 1/2" after all. I'll be placing a new order and sending parts back on Monday and hope to have better news by next weekend.

That would make the new part number 9035-08-08 for those following along at home.

 

[N2DFire]

Well I'll get to the good news another day in another thread.

The bad news is I STILL don't have the right fitting.

3/8" BSPP was too small. 1/2" BSPP (shown here) is too big.



I finally just yanked the bolt and brought it home with me and found my "good" calipers.

After several measurements the Max Dia is 17.73 mm and the Crown to Crown spacing on the threads is 1.5 mm leading me to believe this is in fact an M18 X 1.5

I will be taking the offending bolt to the local shop to see if they can measure / cross it with anything on Monday (which is probably what I should have done in the first place. :confused2: )

Further updates to follow.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

So with yours and Eric's vote on the BSPP as thread type, I think we've confirmed the size as a 3/8"

At one point I hoped to develop a kit for dealers to install but I couldn't get my cost down to $800 for the dealer cost and a margin worth my effort without an initial big order. Everything is perfectly custom fitted and my kit would look like an OEM application. My master parts list is on a different computer that isn't plugged in and my tractor is still at the shop with a mystery engine check light problem or I'd shoot a photo of how I did the rear adaptor.

At any-rate, I believe I used a JIC adaptor which is the same thread pitch as BSPP. I used all Eaton, Parker, and Kioti components to build my the hydraulic of my 3rd function.

Here is my original design.

On my application I located the Eaton electric over hydraulic valve and sub plate directly on top of the transmission where it would be safe from gook and brush. I built guards that also act as "wiring looms" to keep things from chaffing and all painted with Kioti's charcoal paint. My wiring harness uses Delphi weather pack electrical connectors, and solid-state relays. The entire harness is shielded in sheathing, and fully wrapped with 3M Super 33+ electrical tape. My wiring harness is better than the OEM harness and it was all able to be added in without touching, cutting, or messing with the factory wiring harness.

It would have been cool but I wasn't able to find anybody willing to build my electrical harness in low volumes to try and market the kit myself. The hydraulic side, and cutting out the metal brackets is actually the easy part, but fabbing up the wiring harness is the time consuming part. My selling dealer wanted to put my 3rd function on every tractor he sold, he was so impressed. I tried contacting Kioti corporate about my kit, but nobody ever called me back even after repeated attempts.

It would take a competent tech about three hours to install my kit. The dealer would have paid $800 and sold it for a SRP of $1400 plus labor and compared to the universal kits, my kit with its hardlines, properly-fitting, soft hydraulic lines, top drawer American-made hydraulic components, and best-practicies wiring harness would have been well worth the extra money.

 

[N2DFire]

OK this will (hopefully) be my last post in this thread and soon I will be working on our build thread as I am almost finished with everything now.

Just to clarify the correct fitting to replace the Banjo Bolts & Hard line from the Loader Valve PB to the 3Pt Lift is indeed an M18X1.5 thread.

I finally bit the bullet & pulled the bolt and took it to a local shop that actually stocked Metric fittings (took a few phone calls to even find that). They verified the size & thread I thought it was by test threading it into a fitting.

Since I already had hosed made, I needed a M18-1.5 to 1/2" NPT (he only had 3/8" in stock) so he had them sent over from a store in another city and had them for me the next day (and he was also cheaper than any online price I found before shipping). Sometimes it pays to shop local.

Any how for the 1/2" version the part numbers are:
Parker - M18-1/2F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-08

If you'd rather use 3/8" then they are:
Parker - M18-3/8F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-06

 

[dfkrug]

Any how for the 1/2" version the part numbers are:
Parker - M18-1/2F8OHG
Discount Hydraulics - 9235-18-08

Just found your thread. I eventually plan to replace this hardline with hoses as well.

Why did you go with an NPT fitting instead of JIC? I see the part for JIC would be
a 9605S-08-L12-18 (1/2" JIC male to M18-1.5 Metric Male) and is only $6.50 at
DiscountHydHose.com (+ $6 ship). JIC is much better than NPT in terms of leaks,
and hoses often come pre-made with JICF ends.

You DO want -8 and not -6 here, since all pump flow all the time goes thru it.
The work port hoses on your grapple valve can be as small as -4, since they are intermittant.

 

[N2DFire]

Why did you go with an NPT fitting instead of JIC?

Honestly - because before I found the cool local place to get hoses made I was worried about having to order hoses if something broke and the local Tractor Supply has pre-made NPT stuff in stock. If I had it to do over again I would have gone with JIC in several places (and I ended up with some custom made hoses anyway).

You DO want -8 and not -6 here, since all pump flow all the time goes thru it.
The work port hoses on your grapple valve can be as small as -4, since they are intermittant.

The ports on the D03 Subplate & solenoid are smaller than a 3/8" hose already and your total flow has to go thru that as well (this solenoid is rated for 16gpm flow actually and the entire pump flow of the CK35 is only 12.9 gpm which includes the power steering circuit output so again were not talking a huge flow).

The relative length of the flow path through the subplate & solenoid is so short compared to the entire length of the system that the resulting friction loss and related pressure / velocity increases are negligible. The same would apply to the fitting here as well. I would NOT however advise using 3/8" hose for the whole path and I did in fact use 1/2" hoses for this w/ 3/8" couplings on the subplate ends and 1/2" on the adapter ends.


I have actually just posted a full write up of the entire build today over in the Customization section.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/358086-kioti-ck-35-3rd-function.html

 

[dfkrug]

The ports on the D03 Subplate & solenoid are smaller than a 3/8" hose already and your total flow has to go thru that as well (this solenoid is rated for 16gpm flow actually and the entire pump flow of the CK35 is only 12.9 gpm which includes the power steering circuit output so again were not talking a huge flow).

Yeah, the total flow is only 8.3GPM, but restrictions should be avoided, if feasible. That's the reason I am considering the changeover. My fluid heats up a lot when I use the AUX valve work ports to power my backhoe. I would rather connect the hoe between two valves as you did.