Mowing Nervous about mowing this hill with my new BX1870

[brasco426]

Lots of great info on this particular thread. That's one of the great things about TBN and the people that contribute to it. The best advice I might be able to give is to start easy by going up and down hills first until you learn what the machine can and can't do. Seat time is the best schooling one can get, just ease into it and don't take on more than your skill set can handle.

 

[dgraves49]

Wondering out loud if you might not have as much clearance as you want if you lower the whole tractor with smaller tires (?) One of my complaints with small Kubotas is that you can't lift the MMM very high to clear things. That's especially a nuisance when doing something besides mowing & sometimes trying to load onto a trailer with a raised threshold. The duals would certainly give you more "anti-tip-over" margin. Of course spacers are made for Kubota wheels to get wider stance in the mid size tractors. Not seen any for the small ones.

My plan is to run the slightly smaller tires on the outside and the stock tires on the inside, so I wouldn't be losing any clearance. That way I would be running on the inside tires most of the time. The smaller outside tires would hit the ground as soon as the machine started to tip.
I can do the duals cheaper than the spacers I have seen. since the set up uses the wheel weight holes to tie them together they wont have to be Kubota wheels. I have found used 12 inch wheels with tires that fit my requirements on craigs list for $50.00 and the adapter set up is just over $50.00.

 

[JWR]

A ha ! Sounds like a plan. I guess you would not want the outer tires to be much smaller diameter since when they touch you would already be tipped over a little bit. Still a neat idea.

 

[Xfaxman]

Since JWR's chart didn't show in post #18, I will post one that shows angles, degrees and ratio:

And side hill mowing the 1/2 ratio, 26.6 degree, 50% slope, back of the dam.

 

[JWR]

Good chart with a little more detail than the one I had. It is always hard to tell from a picture but 2 out of 3 of your pictures don't really seem to be as steep as 50%. A 50% slope is pretty much my limit for mowing with a bush hog unless it is just a short section I can come straight down.

 

[CurtisC]

I'll take issue with this and relate a story that I've written up here several other times.
I had my BX in full loader/weighted/dig mode. FEL on, 275 lb bar on the 3ph, 50 lbs of wheel weights on each rear tire. My rear tires are filled. I drove to my sidehill where I've felt uncomfortable at times. My FEL was about 3 inches off the ground, the weight bar was about axle height. I dismounted, stepped to the rear and pushed on the ROPS from the uphill side. I lifted the rear wheel off the ground with one hand. I then went back to the garage and stripped it down to mowing mode (sans MMM, which would improve the situation even more). I took off the weight bar, wheel weights and FEL, drove back to the exact same spot and conducted the same experiment. I was unable to push the ROPS enough to lift the back wheel at all, certainly not with one hand.

The FEL can be a great emergency brake on a hill. It *might* save you from rolling *if* you got it down quick enough to take the weight off the front axle. But it will also put you a *LONG* ways toward rolling in the first place.



Agree with this 100%. A 15 degree slope will not bother a BX. My hill measures about 23 degrees.

Here's the thing about lateral stability (rollover) - unlike a car or truck, resistance to rollover only comes from the rear axle not the front. The front axle is connected to the frame on a pivot pin offering no resistance to rollover until it has reached its max angle of pivot -usually well after the tractor is on its way over. Keeping the bucket low is a must, taking the FEL off or making other adjustments that lower or move the total CG aft toward a line between the rear tire contact points improves stability. Picture a triangular sided box formed by four points: front axle pivot, rear wheel ground contact points, and location of the total tractor CG with a plumb bob hanging from that CG point. As you lift each corner of the triangular base there's a point where plumb bob swings outside of the box (rollover). As you move the CG forward or higher you don't have to lift the base as far for that to happen. You can see why a fully loaded and raised FEL (maximum height and distance forward for total tractor CG) provides the highest risk of rollover. Putting the bucket on the ground not only lowers the CG but it changes the base from a triangle to rectangle replacing the axle pivot point with the two outer bucket contact points - greatly increasing how far you must raise one side of the base. Low CG just forward of the rear axle provides maximum stability traversing a hill.

 

[RaydaKub]

Here's the thing about lateral stability (rollover) - unlike a car or truck, resistance to rollover only comes from the rear axle not the front. The front axle is connected to the frame on a pivot pin offering no resistance to rollover until it has reached its max angle of pivot -usually well after the tractor is on its way over. Keeping the bucket low is a must, taking the FEL off or making other adjustments that lower or move the total CG aft toward a line between the rear tire contact points improves stability. Picture a triangular sided box formed by four points: front axle pivot, rear wheel ground contact points, and location of the total tractor CG with a plumb bob hanging from that CG point. As you lift each corner of the triangular base there's a point where plumb bob swings outside of the box (rollover). As you move the CG forward or higher you don't have to lift the base as far for that to happen. You can see why a fully loaded and raised FEL (maximum height and distance forward for total tractor CG) provides the highest risk of rollover. Putting the bucket on the ground not only lowers the CG but it changes the base from a triangle to rectangle replacing the axle pivot point with the two outer bucket contact points - greatly increasing how far you must raise one side of the base. Low CG just forward of the rear axle provides maximum stability traversing a hill.

Nicely explained, CurtisC.
Just to poke at a couple of your points:
1) Putting the bucket on the ground lowers CG and changes base to a rectangle.
Both are true, but the base doesn't change until it hits the ground. 1 mm off the ground and you still have the triangle. Once it hits the ground, be aware that it could become a sled and slide down, probably no worse safety-wise than the tip, but could add to the drama. In addition, this relies on the operator to provide it at just the right instant,
I'm not at all sure that a FEL on the ground would cause a lower CG than the bare tractor. Would be an interesting calculation.
2) Low CG just forward of the rear axle provides maximum stability traversing a hill.
And that is something that a FEL will *NEVER* help achieve because it is mostly forward of the front axle, not by the rear.

 

[Xfaxman]

Good chart with a little more detail than the one I had. It is always hard to tell from a picture but 2 out of 3 of your pictures don't really seem to be as steep as 50%. A 50% slope is pretty much my limit for mowing with a bush hog unless it is just a short section I can come straight down.

Yep, that is why I took these pictures in the same area.

The hanging tow rope compensates for any camera lean and shows true straight up and down. The protractor shows 30 degrees of body lean on the 50% slope.

 

[tractorshopper]

This is about the steepest spot I side-hill mow. I need to measure it over the width of the tractor one of these days to accurately report on it. I can still comfortably turn up or down in this spot. While sitting on the tractor, I have stopped in this spot and wiggled my weight back and forth and no wheel leaves the ground, so it could go steeper; I just don't have a steeper spot at the house or the property that I feel uncomfortable on. I don't purposely lean uphill on this slope either. My weight doesn't seem to make a difference.

I have my rear wheels filled and I would never attempt this with the FEL on or any implement on the back. Every time I've come close to rolling a tractor, it's because of the loader or rear implement raising the COG. I've always been able to drop the loader in time luckily so far.

I never took my old lawn tractor side hill in this spot. I never felt comfortable enough on it, so mowed up and down. I also would have never taken my L3800 on this spot either. Just would have felt way too scared to do so.

 

[CurtisC]

Nicely explained, CurtisC.
Just to poke at a couple of your points:
1) Putting the bucket on the ground lowers CG and changes base to a rectangle.
Both are true, but the base doesn't change until it hits the ground. 1 mm off the ground and you still have the triangle. Once it hits the ground, be aware that it could become a sled and slide down, probably no worse safety-wise than the tip, but could add to the drama. In addition, this relies on the operator to provide it at just the right instant,
I'm not at all sure that a FEL on the ground would cause a lower CG than the bare tractor. Would be an interesting calculation.
2) Low CG just forward of the rear axle provides maximum stability traversing a hill.
And that is something that a FEL will *NEVER* help achieve because it is mostly forward of the front axle, not by the rear.

Raydakub,
I agree completely with both of your observations. Meant to say keeping bucket low is a must but taking FEL off was better. I spend a lot of time sideways on a steep driveway spring cleaning the drainage ditches with the B/H extended out behind, low and uphill to bring CG back and "inside the box". My sense is to many folks don't appreciate how fast the handy but front end heavy FEL can get them in trouble.

 

[AStanton]

Not to get off topic, but I'm curious about how the OP cleans the stack on his woodstove. Do you remove the cap and clean down or clean up from the firebox?
As for steep slopes, one of my tractor manuals recommends attacking them by going up and down. However, it recommends doing it in reverse. I'm also thinking, now that you have a machine, maybe you could construct a retaining wall or two on that slope and tame it.

 

[Gunksrocker]

Thanks! I clean the wood stove pipe through the clean out below.

 

[timswi]

Cutting grass with the FEL installed is more of a PITA than it's worth in my opinion...Just one more thing to watch out for...Plus the addition of the top side weight. I've cut 75% up my sand mound with my BX and it was always stable although I hit a pucker factor a few times...Up and down in 4x4 was never a problem. Don't remember the slope, but it's steep...Still getting used to crossing the whole thing on my Z724 and it shows no sign of even thinking about tipping, although it will stand up on the rear wheels going up the hill in spots....just go slow, you'll figure out what you can do...These aren't like a garden tractor where you can sit on the fender and counter balance unless you go 400#+...Plus with the ROPS up, seatbelt is an absolute must.

I bought the Z724 because I got tired of removing the BH ad FEL every time I wanted to mow...Lazy I guess after 11 years of happy BX mowing.

 

[KYKub]

I have a lot that looks very similar to the OP. My Kubota G1900 never feels tippy, but my BX1860 does at times, especially with the FEL on. Rear 2" spacers helped.

Go slow. Ease up to the most worrisome areas and get off and try to tip the machine. I did this and was surprised that I couldn't lift the upper wheels off the ground. Not even close. Yet, sitting in the seat, it felt very tippy. Be careful, go slow, and get to know your ground and your machine. You "probably" are much safer than you think, but better to know from cautious experience than to play the probability game!

 

[civilian]

So my BX2230 has a metal cab on it, Sims I think. Does that cab change the stability for mowing or traveling on hills? I know it is better to go up and down a hill instead across the hill. But does the cab have the same results as a FEL? Just wondering. Thanks, Jon

 

[aczlan]

So my BX2230 has a metal cab on it, Sims I think. Does that cab change the stability for mowing or traveling on hills? I know it is better to go up and down a hill instead across the hill. But does the cab have the same results as a FEL? Just wondering. Thanks, Jon

That will raise the center of gravity and make it tippier just like a loader would.

Aaron Z

 

[Snowback]

Please be careful. It looks doable, BUT, if you have any divots, ruts or loose soil when turning around near top, or traversing at an angle then tipping can happen very quickly. Up and down no problem, side to side would require care.

I watched this video many times before mowing and moving dirt on any slopes. You can clearly see how the front axle pivot reacts to produce the weight transfer. Be safe and have fun!

 

[JWR]

Please be careful. It looks doable, BUT, if you have any divots, ruts or loose soil when turning around near top, or traversing at an angle then tipping can happen very quickly. Up and down no problem, side to side would require care.

I watched this video many times before mowing and moving dirt on any slopes. You can clearly see how the front axle pivot reacts to produce the weight transfer. Be safe and have fun!

I've seen that one live. The blue machine is used to demo rollover when hitting a hole on the downhill side every year at the PA Ag progress show just south of State College PA. Notice that they use a remote controlled tractor with wheels set way too narrow for use on steep ground. The guy in the background is using a cable type remote control. Point is well made however.

 

[flusher]

I've seen that one live. The blue machine is used to demo rollover when hitting a hole on the downhill side every year at the PA Ag progress show just south of State College PA. Notice that they use a remote controlled tractor with wheels set way too narrow for use on steep ground. The guy in the background is using a cable type remote control. Point is well made however.

Good demo showing how quickly a tractor can roll on an "easy" slope when the up-hill front tire hits a small bump. The only way to mitigate this problem is low center of gravity and wide wheel track--for example with my lowered 1964 Massey Ferguson 135 diesel.



Also, at times it's very difficult to shut off the diesel engine on a rolled tractor. The problem is that the upside down diesel engine will burn the engine oil as easily as diesel fuel. If that happens you can ruin the engine. Just Google "diesel engine runaway" to see what can happen. One method to stop a runaway is to stuff a towel in the air intake.

Good luck

 

[hillsandtrees]

I have some steep slopes. I find that backing up in 4WD without FEL and with belly mower allows me to get all the way up without ever feeling unstable.