Trenching - worth trying for a novice?

[dhagood]

i did the trenching for the electrical service for my barn and well from the power company's pedestal to both termination points. i saved a thousand dollars off the quote and spent $680 on the trencher rental (i had to rent the trencher twice as it took much longer than i had anticipated). as has previously been mentioned this is hard, dirty work.

as far as cleaning out the bottom of the trench, i have a bad back which really doesn't appreciate doing things like shoveling while bent over. using a shovel to clean out a narrow trench just wasn't going to happen, so i plugged a big shop-vac into my generator and sucked the dirt out. it was kind of time consuming but it really did a good job. i don't have hardly any rocks on my place but did have a bunch of hard dirt clods which continually got stuck in the hose and had to be dealt with.

like i said: hard, dirty work. if i had known then what i know now i'd might well have paid the thousand bucks and smiled when i did it. i did save some money, i know exactly where the cable is, and i can say i did that myself.

 

[hghvolt]

Are you saying I should dig it deeper to account for that or just get one capable?

Yes, you need to dig deeper than the required depth. With the chain type trenchers soil falls back into the trench as you dig. The soil is normally loose but it will hold you pipe or conduit above the required depth so you have to account for that. The other advise I can give you is to make sure you use the 811 services. The utilities for your area will come out and mark where they have lines underground.

 

[LD1]

Delco's website is a typo for sure.

SDR is the correct pipe lingo. As per their reccomendations, SDR7 PE pipe (the black coil stuff) for up to 500' and over that use SDR21 PVC.

That said, for 600', I'd consider just staying with the 1" coils, and get full length for ease of instillation, maybe upsize to 1-1/4", but I certainly wouldnt want 2" PVC.

But before you make this decision, you may want to talk to them in person, and check this out Tap Fees – Del-Co Water

there is a steep price jump going with more meter than you really need.

Also, why 48"??? Is that a delaware county thing? I know they have some pretty strange (and expensive) building requirements down there. But find this one unusually odd. Are you actually in sunbury? I am assuming you are outside the corp limits based on your run lengths. But even so, Trenching that should still be ~$3/ft or less. But you did say that was including pipe right? If that price includes 2" PVC + laying and filling....probably aint bad given the labor of installing and gluing the pipe every 20'.

Electric: assuming consolidated electric????? Standard is 24" min for secondary, and thats what I am assuming since its only a 200' run. If its primary, 36". And you can do as you wish and research as there is endless reading, but around here, it sint common to burry the electric in conduit. URD cable, is meant to be directly burried. And its cheap. 4/0-4/0-2/0 is the standard 200a service stuff. IF you do have consolidated, there wire is about $1/ft cheaper than menards, which is $2.72/ft. And its good stuff.

The dirt, this whole area is varied. You will either have brown clay with sandy rocky mix beyond 2' deep, or you will have soft black mucky clay (great for ponds) down about 2'. No way of knowing til you dig it. And 1/2 mile either direction may be totally different.

We do have alot of rental places around here as well. All the big ones in columbus, like nations rent, sunbelt, etc. Then some local ones. I usually go to ohio rental or holmes rental both in mt vernon.

 

[Nic3456]

Delco's website is a typo for sure.

SDR is the correct pipe lingo. As per their reccomendations, SDR7 PE pipe (the black coil stuff) for up to 500' and over that use SDR21 PVC.

That said, for 600', I'd consider just staying with the 1" coils, and get full length for ease of instillation, maybe upsize to 1-1/4", but I certainly wouldnt want 2" PVC.

But before you make this decision, you may want to talk to them in person, and check this out Tap Fees Del-Co Water

there is a steep price jump going with more meter than you really need.

Also, why 48"??? Is that a delaware county thing? I know they have some pretty strange (and expensive) building requirements down there. But find this one unusually odd. Are you actually in sunbury? I am assuming you are outside the corp limits based on your run lengths. But even so, Trenching that should still be ~$3/ft or less. But you did say that was including pipe right? If that price includes 2" PVC + laying and filling....probably aint bad given the labor of installing and gluing the pipe every 20'.

Electric: assuming consolidated electric????? Standard is 24" min for secondary, and thats what I am assuming since its only a 200' run. If its primary, 36". And you can do as you wish and research as there is endless reading, but around here, it sint common to burry the electric in conduit. URD cable, is meant to be directly burried. And its cheap. 4/0-4/0-2/0 is the standard 200a service stuff. IF you do have consolidated, there wire is about $1/ft cheaper than menards, which is $2.72/ft. And its good stuff.

The dirt, this whole area is varied. You will either have brown clay with sandy rocky mix beyond 2' deep, or you will have soft black mucky clay (great for ponds) down about 2'. No way of knowing til you dig it. And 1/2 mile either direction may be totally different.

We do have alot of rental places around here as well. All the big ones in columbus, like nations rent, sunbelt, etc. Then some local ones. I usually go to ohio rental or holmes rental both in mt vernon.

I'm am outside the Sunbury limits.

Confirmed that the SOR was a typo on their site (another part of their website said SDR). They also give the option of 1.5" copper tube size (CTS) polyethylene (PE) pipes. From what I've read the 1.5" would be better because they come in like 400' rolls?

As far as depth goes looks like they have mismatched info on that too - one place says "bury service lines a minimum of 36", but another says "bury water lines a minimum depth of 48" to the top of the pipe"

I have AEP and there is an existing transformer about 400' back which is why it's less. AEP isn't giving me the option to run my own wire.

As far as soil - a soil test in the general area doesn't show any rocks,but does mention dense till at about 38" (soil guy mentioned it was very tough - I'm assuming stuff me thing like brick hard clay.

 

[D2Cat]

Yes, you need to dig deeper than the required depth. With the chain type trenchers soil falls back into the trench as you dig. The soil is normally loose but it will hold you pipe or conduit above the required depth so you have to account for that. The other advise I can give you is to make sure you use the 811 services. The utilities for your area will come out and mark where they have lines underground.

Can't you find a trencher in Texas with a crumber? That solves all the problems you describe.

What many DIY'ers don't know is, when the utilities say depth of bury is..... (whatever) that is the measurement from the TOP of the line to finish grade!

Anyone who digs without calling for locates will eventually be paying a STUPID tax. And it is expensive!!

 

[CCWKen]

The trencher I rented did a pretty good job in sandy clay. The screw blade piled the dirt on the sides. What did fall back in was easy to spade and made it easy to get a level bottom. As long as I could keep the dogs from playing in the dirt. But, I didn't have to go as deep as the OP requires. With electric, well and co-op water, I put in over a half a mile of trench.

 

[Nic3456]

Can't you find a trencher in Texas with a crumber? That solves all the problems you describe.

What many DIY'ers don't know is, when the utilities say depth of bury is..... (whatever) that is the measurement from the TOP of the line to finish grade!

Anyone who digs without calling for locates will eventually be paying a STUPID tax. And it is expensive!!

So if I need 36" and use a 1.5" pipe I need to dig 37.5" deep?

 

[D2Cat]

Yes, an inspector measures from the top of the pipe, not to bottom of the ditch. Lay a shovel handle across the ditch and measure from the bottom of the handle to the top of the pipe. That is the depth of bury.

 

[LD1]

Find out if you have inspections for utilities. Up here in morrow county, we do not. So who cares if the top of the pipe is 33" or 38". Just trench and lay and don't over think it. Either is still well below frost. I've been doing tile repair before and uncovered delco lines less than 20" before. The delco locate guys are good guys too. They said there is no rhyme or reason but their line can be anywhere from 12" to 48". They never have issues.

AEP sucks. Sorry to hear that. Let them handle trenching ald laying if that's an option. I cannot speak for AEP, but consolidated owns everything up to the meter. And irlt sounds like you will be having the meter on your house????? And this run in question is going from xfmr to meter???..like I say, if that were consolidated, it's their line....their responsibility. Let them worry about it.

And shop around. You can probably find the poly pipe in longer rolls too. Try to find one that is long enough you won't have to worry about connections in the ground

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

I've learned from years of doing underground electrical services that you need a trencher that will dig 12" deeper than the lowest depth you want. The chain will fill about that amount back in as you dig.

Yes, an inspector measures from the top of the pipe, not to bottom of the ditch. Lay a shovel handle across the ditch and measure from the bottom of the handle to the top of the pipe. That is the depth of bury.

No inspector is going to fail you because the code requires 36" and he measures 42". Deeper is better. Get that trencher that goes 12" deeper, like the man said, or you will be cursing yourself.

But please, do NOT try to do that much trenching with a walk-behind trencher! Get something in the 20 hp range at LEAST and make it a rider.

I did my electrical, cable, and telephone about a year ago. Only 70 feet or so, but three trenches. I rented a 14 hp DitchWitch walk-behind, and it about killed us. I gave up on getting the phone and cable as deep as I wanted them. It was just too much fight. A cantaloupe sized rock will STOP you. A 2" root will STOP you. Heavy clay (which is about all we have here) will make you cry. I had myself and two grown sons helping me, with each of them pulling on that stupid trencher with a cargo strap around their waists (and they are big boys!) and it was still slow going. A nightmare two days of VERY hard work, and I was not satisfied with the result for all of that.

Better yet, rent a backhoe or mini-excavator You'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. That's why I'm a temporary Kubota owner. I bought a BX25 for the cost of the drainage trenching and grading that I need to do.

My 4 oldest sons have all learned to run it quite well. We may not be as fast as a pro, but we are getting the job done, and this time, I'm pleased with the results.

Water is going to need a smooth bottom on your trench, which means a lot of shoveling to get it cleaned out.

Hogwash, sir. Just tamp the bottom, lay in the pipe, and bury it.


As for running the cable being difficult, well, it doesn't have to be. Lay out your conduit next to the trench and put the cable in it one section at at time, THEN go back and join the segments, then go along and drop it in the trench.