Preparing/seeding 2.5 acre property - Advice please

[bayds]

Hello everyone,
New member to the forum here. I have very much enjoyed reading up on the variety of topics found on the forum and was hoping I could get some advice on the situation I am in.

Situation:
- Newly built house on 2.5 acre lot. The property was pretty much entirely overgrown with weeds. I have spent this past summer cutting down the weeds and spraying them with herbicide to try and get them under control. So far it's been pretty successful as they have been reduced significantly from when I first started.
- We live in Canada so winters are cold so I was planning on seeding next fall. Want to take the time to get the property prepared correctly to hopefully increase the chances of success in planting the seed next year. I recently had the property rough graded using a bobcat so the ground is now fairly packed in certain areas and has tire ruts all over the place which will need to be leveled out again prior to laying the seed.

My thoughts/plan - this is where any input or advice will be very much appreciated!!

This fall:
- Give the entire property another good spray of roundup to try and kill all remaining vegetation on the property.
- Till the entire yard to break up the packed clay ground. My fear in doing this is that it is going to open the seed bed to just create even more weeds that have been controlled. Not sure how else I can break up the compacted and rough ground though.

Next year:
- Continue to spray herbicide to kill existing weeds that pop up in the spring.
- Till ground in late summer to get rid of all the dead weeds and break up ground further.
- Harrow entire property to try and smooth out the ground for seeding.
- Seed in the fall

Based on my all of my research, I just can't seem to find a consistent method of going about this so I'm not sure if I'm heading down the correct path or if i'm going about this in the wrong way. If anyone has some experience with this or can share their advice it will be very much appreciated!

Thanks

 

[flusher]

I'd use a moldboard plow, one that turns the soil over and buries the weed seed. Then use a tandem disc with an attached drag to break up the clods and smooth the seed bed. Use a broadcast seeder and roll the seed into good contact with the soil. Then water frequently.

Good luck

 

[jeff9366]

I would use a Chisel Plow, a Primary Tillage implement, or a the lighter version of a Chisel Plow, the Field Cultivator, a Secondary Tillage implement.

Either will aerate your ground without bringing up new seeds.

 

[teg]

I don't know about Canada, eh! I would RoundUp, wait 10 days then till (do you have a tractor tiller or walk behind? Tractor tilling is so much better...) This will bring up weed seeds but if you plant grass seeds correctly (soil test, fertilize before tilling and cultipacking for a good seed bed) the grass seed will get a better start.

Next year, follow up with broad leaf herbicides that will kill weeds and not grasses... Longer you wait the more of the good top soil will wash away. :2cents:

 

[prichard]

By "next fall" do you mean a year from now? If so you'll spend the next year fighting weeds. If for some reason you can't plant this year I'd put a heavy layer of some mulch. Then next year right before seeding turn the mulch in.

 

[bayds]

Thanks very much for all the responses.

- We do have access to a tractor tiller (thanks to our neighbor).
- We were planning on seeding next fall (year from now) for a few reasons. We are kind of running out of time to do it this year and second I wanted to give it some time to see some rainfalls to ensure we have no significant low areas or poor drainage. I see other properties in the area that have significant pools of water after every rainfall. I just want to make sure the grade is how we want it or it's just going to create more work for ourselves later.

Thanks.

 

[prichard]

Down here I'd broadcast winter rye and spread straw. That would help to suppress weeds and control erosion. I had to do this a few winters ago when we had to replace a drain field in winter. This works here because the rye dies back in the warmer months. We then planted Fescue in the spring - wrong time of year but we had to get something growing.

 

[jeff9366]

I see other properties in the area that have significant pools of water after every rainfall.

I want to make sure the grade is how we want it or it's just going to create more work for ourselves later.

Pools and puddles are from poor drainage. Solve by aerating as in Post #3.

 

[KWRB]

I'm a little bit later getting to you with a reply than the others, but I am currently working through a similar project in northern NY. I have four acres of old brushy overgrown pasture, that I'm turning into a wildflower meadow, so I don't have to mow it.

Day 0: I brush hogged for a whole season, then moldboard plowed it over in the fall #1. This worked pretty well at killing the sod and most of the weed vegetation. It did turn up a bunch of little woody roots from the stuff I brush hogged which are a pain, but by turning them, it helps kill them permanently so they don't re-shoot from the roots. Then I bought a disc and I've been discing it every few weeks during spring and summer #1, whenever I get a good crop of weeds. It's true that these old fields have a TON of ungerminated dormant weed seeds that will germinate after each tillage, as long as they have the rain and rain. By tilling and allowing them to germinate followed by re-tilling, the idea is to consume to whole lot of seeds before planting. You must do so before they too go to seed, obviously. Because this summer has been dry, I'm not convinced I've gotten all, or even most, of the seeds to germinate. I know this actually, because when we finally started getting rain again about a week ago, the weeds took right off again. Because of the hot dry summer, I'm going to give it another year. I'm not in a huge hurry.

I'm going to continue to till through this fall (fall #2) and hopefully have a very loose soil when the frosts come, to kill even more. Then I'll evaluate as I till through next summer. In fall #3 I plan to to a final shallow till and seed with a 3PT broadcast spreader. I may even spray at this point, so I don't have to get real aggressive with the final till, or posisbly could skip the last till. This will prevent encouraging more deep dormant seeds germinating, and wild flowers don't need to be real deep anyway. If you think about the natural process, the seeds don't usually have a chance to get real deep, so there's no need to till deep and chance more weeds coming up after the sod is properly tilled up. Once they're spread, I'll roll them in during fall and wait for spring.

Like you, I will do a fall planting, because what I want to plant includes perennials. It's extremely important with a perennial like grass or certain wildflowers, that the first season be as long as possible in order to develop healthy enough roots to over winter the first year, so I feel you're right on there.

Anyway, things like this are where people will have a lot of opinions, but I've done a lot of homework and for my soil and my climate, this is certainly best.

One thing I considered and opted against was a drag. My soil is rocky and has a high-ish clay content. The drag harrow wasn't going to do the job without several more passes. The disc is smoothing things out nicely and not bringing every last rock to the surface like a drag. Another thing, is that I had nasty pooling, but that is related to the amount of clay in my soil. I've had to disc mine more than people in other places to break of the soil enough to allow the water through. Right now, my water table is extremely low, from the drought, but I still had water sitting on the pasture in a few places. It takes a lot of work to get that clay broken up.

 

[Sprinklerman]

Round up , then Go find a slit seeder for a tractor. And read about dormant seeding . I have had good sucess with it .

 

[jenkinsph]

Hello everyone,
New member to the forum here. I have very much enjoyed reading up on the variety of topics found on the forum and was hoping I could get some advice on the situation I am in.

Situation:
- Newly built house on 2.5 acre lot. The property was pretty much entirely overgrown with weeds. I have spent this past summer cutting down the weeds and spraying them with herbicide to try and get them under control. So far it's been pretty successful as they have been reduced significantly from when I first started.
- We live in Canada so winters are cold so I was planning on seeding next fall. Want to take the time to get the property prepared correctly to hopefully increase the chances of success in planting the seed next year. I recently had the property rough graded using a bobcat so the ground is now fairly packed in certain areas and has tire ruts all over the place which will need to be leveled out again prior to laying the seed.

My thoughts/plan - this is where any input or advice will be very much appreciated!!

This fall:
- Give the entire property another good spray of roundup to try and kill all remaining vegetation on the property.
- Till the entire yard to break up the packed clay ground. My fear in doing this is that it is going to open the seed bed to just create even more weeds that have been controlled. Not sure how else I can break up the compacted and rough ground though.

Next year:
- Continue to spray herbicide to kill existing weeds that pop up in the spring.
- Till ground in late summer to get rid of all the dead weeds and break up ground further.
- Harrow entire property to try and smooth out the ground for seeding.
- Seed in the fall

Based on my all of my research, I just can't seem to find a consistent method of going about this so I'm not sure if I'm heading down the correct path or if i'm going about this in the wrong way. If anyone has some experience with this or can share their advice it will be very much appreciated!

Thanks

If you need to grade the property to correct drainage I would do this first. This will bring up new weed seeds but I would not be concerned about this, when the time is right you can till them under for green manure. Usually tilling the weeds under in late summer or fall will reduce the chances of them coming back until next year.

This year I would correct drainage and smooth out the area for easy mowing in the future, then broadcast some annual rye to reduce erosion and provide cover.

I would seed the area in the fall after tilling the weeds in next year. As long as you have enough rain in the fall and use proper fertilizers and winter root stimulators you should have the grass well rooted by the time the spring weeds start.

I would spend more money on seeds and less on weed killer. Do everything you can to promote the grass and its root growth, this will help choke out the weeds. When you have a solid mat of grass roots the weeds don't have much of a chance. When you spray and kill weeds they die and leave a void, with time another one fill in this blank spot.

My lawn below was seeded at 350 lbs./acre in tall Fescue. Planted in late August and used sprinklers to get started. Never had any weed killer on it. It has had starter fertilizers, root stimulators in the fall, Ironite once a year and some Nitrogen based fertilizers as needed.

 

[bayds]

Thanks everyone for the advice provided, very much appreciated.

Jenkinsph,
Your lawn in the picture looks great. So my plan was to wait and till a little bit closer to fall. Hopefully by doing this the seeds that are brought up will die over the winter. Can you explain your thoughts around broadcasting annual rye? Did you mean to do this this year? What exactly will this do and do I just till it up again next year prior to seeding the grass?

Also, when it comes time to seeding next fall. Would you till the yard again and then immediately seed right after? What was your process in seeding in the fall and not having the grass seed compete with the weed seeds leading into the winter?

Thanks

 

[Thall303]

If you need to grade the property to correct drainage I would do this first. This will bring up new weed seeds but I would not be concerned about this, when the time is right you can till them under for green manure. Usually tilling the weeds under in late summer or fall will reduce the chances of them coming back until next year.

This year I would correct drainage and smooth out the area for easy mowing in the future, then broadcast some annual rye to reduce erosion and provide cover.

I would seed the area in the fall after tilling the weeds in next year. As long as you have enough rain in the fall and use proper fertilizers and winter root stimulators you should have the grass well rooted by the time the spring weeds start.

I would spend more money on seeds and less on weed killer. Do everything you can to promote the grass and its root growth, this will help choke out the weeds. When you have a solid mat of grass roots the weeds don't have much of a chance. When you spray and kill weeds they die and leave a void, with time another one fill in this blank spot.

My lawn below was seeded at 350 lbs./acre in tall Fescue. Planted in late August and used sprinklers to get started. Never had any weed killer on it. It has had starter fertilizers, root stimulators in the fall, Ironite once a year and some Nitrogen based fertilizers as needed.

Wished I had that grass here n Texas.

 

[KWRB]

Thanks everyone for the advice provided, very much appreciated.

Jenkinsph,
Your lawn in the picture looks great. So my plan was to wait and till a little bit closer to fall. Hopefully by doing this the seeds that are brought up will die over the winter. Can you explain your thoughts around broadcasting annual rye? Did you mean to do this this year? What exactly will this do and do I just till it up again next year prior to seeding the grass?

Also, when it comes time to seeding next fall. Would you till the yard again and then immediately seed right after? What was your process in seeding in the fall and not having the grass seed compete with the weed seeds leading into the winter?

Thanks

My opinion:

If and only if you are certain there aren't any more dormant weed seeds, another round of tillage should break up the soil and help the new planting take root. On the other hand, if you've relied on spraying the final time, tillage could further encourage more weed seeds to germinate. Grass and wildflowers typically don't needs crazy depth so again, unless you're certain that tillage won't bring up any more dormant weeds, I would just seed and roll with a roller/cultipacker. For my project, I'm tilling every few weeks during the growing season until no more weeds germinate. Then I won't have to worry about the repercussions of tilling right before I cast seed.

As for not competing with weeds, the idea is to A) repeatedly, mechanically till them all so there aren't any perennial root systems or dormant seeds left to compete, or B) spray and don't till, leaving the (hopefully) few dormant weeds to be out-competed by your dense seeding of grass.

 

[jenkinsph]

I don't think you ever get rid of all weed seeds, ain't happening. But it is possible with proper timing and grass seed density to grow grass roots that will limit the weeds from coming up. I suspect in Canada you could plant earlier maybe August 1st. and have a better head start on the grass and root growth. Irrigation is important for my locale (in southeast New Mexico) and suspect for good results is important everywhere as it allows timing the application for optimum root growth. Most of the weeds I have to deal with seem to come up in May but if tilled up in mid August will not come back until the following year. The key is to get the grass and subsequent roots growing to block the weeds before next May.

Over the winter at least in my locale the grass may brown out but the roots are still growing. I do what ever I can to promote the root growth from Dec. through Feb. applying root stimulator and watering. I also promote the importance of getting a good soil analysis early on in the project to see what amendments are needed prior to planting. Some of these amendments need time to work and that should be accounted for.

I prefer tilling prior to planting, I have had better results with uniform seedbeds this way. I have spent the last few years improving my own skills in finish grading and smoothing. Combining a smooth, tilled, and rolled seedbed helps quite a lot with the end result a smooth lawn without bumps or any ponding with good drainage. This makes mowing and maintaining the lawn so much easier to do.

I suggested rye grass as a cover crop to provide a more respectable appearance over the winter months this year. It also helps provide a little organic growth which can be helpful in many areas. Rye grass, local grasses and weeds can all be tilled under prior to planting your new prepared seedbed. The green manure helps more than some might think.

Just my opinion but I have never understood why so many members on TBN are reluctant to rework the entire lawn area to improve it. Instead it seems a lot of members concern themselves with suspension seats and all terrain tires to get over their rough ground. If you fix the rough ground first then a good mower can yield great results in much less time over several years following. With the growing popularity of ztr mowers you would think being able to mow fast without bumps would be the next logical step.

My older box store mower can easily mow my own lawn areas with good results (if the transmission would hold up) and the x749 premium mower is not necessary. My customers with tough terrain issues is why I have the x749. This mower quickly paid for itself raking pine needles using a pine straw rake over two years time and about 300 clock hours. I also use the mower for close quarters work around trees and pipelines to reduce the amount of manual labor required for finish and clean up work. That said since I have the x749 I use it to mow my lawn.

Last but not least I would hope to see more project about improving actual properties and how these were accomplished. It seems that 95% of all forums is equipment discussion with 5% discussion of actual use and the corresponding results posted. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.