Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket

[downsizingnow48]

Yep size of rollback gussets and horizontal reinforcement are two additional considerations depending on intended use.

 

[downsizingnow48]

And later, some of them said that they should have put more rollback into it.

Looking through my notes I think ALL of them said that! Including me.:laughing:

 

[mike69440]

Guess I'll fart around doing a 3D CAD model at Lunch, I'll Post it when I get something drawn up for comments.

 

[mike69440]

Guess I'll fart around doing a 3D CAD model at Lunch, I'll Post it when I get something drawn up for comments.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/372240-3pt-stuff-your-loader.html

Not quite finished, but you should get the idea.

 

[mike69440]

Re: Back Dragging with a FEL Bucket, I change my Plow bots on Cutting edge,

The old plow bolt heads were so worn out one pulled through.

The Local dealer sold by stepson 1/4" too short grade 2 junk steel carriage bolts to replace them. They were returned, and I ordered some Grade 8 Blow bolts from Global. Plow Bolts - GlobalIndustrial.com

Note the 2 x 2 x 1/2 L angle at rear of bucket for back dragging.

I love the ESCO teeth, much better than CAT teeth.

 

[JWR]

Mike 69440 -- My application is very different, kind of the inverse of the toothed bar that you show in the picture. Mine was intended for improving the "grapple bucket" nature of my 4-in-1 bucket. Keeps me from slipping losing, or dropping logs, small trees, limbs, etc. I had teeth welded on a bar that bolts onto the 4-in-1 bucket -- very, very similar to yours, your's just lacks the clamshell to comedown over top of it. All that makes me realize -- I can use my "teeth on 4-in-1 bucket" to back drag as well. Here are a couple of pictures.

 

[mike69440]

Mike 69440 -- My application is very different, kind of the inverse of the toothed bar that you show in the picture. Mine was intended for improving the "grapple bucket" nature of my 4-in-1 bucket. Keeps me from slipping losing, or dropping logs, small trees, limbs, etc. I had teeth welded on a bar that bolts onto the 4-in-1 bucket -- very, very similar to yours, your's just lacks the clamshell to comedown over top of it. All that makes me realize -- I can use my "teeth on 4-in-1 bucket" to back drag as well. Here are a couple of pictures.View attachment 490581 View attachment 490582

That is so cool, makes me want to sell my grapple and get a 4 in 1. You should have patented the idea. Too late now.

 

[CharlieKtractor]

I have a SSQA plate with attachment points for 3 ph and 2" reese hitch built on the front of it. I bought it to use boxblade on the front of a skid steer but now have it attached to a 72" snow plow. Not sure where I bought it but was around the $100 price range.
I also have a front mount backhoe on my B2650 with 25 hours and two new fel cylinder arms that replaced the bent ones.:confused3:
I have been a back dragger with bucket edge at every angle on all dirt/clay surfaces but will be more attentive in the future. Glad my replacement cylinder arms were under warranty.:thumbsup:
PS The front mount backhoe is now for sale for $1500 in like new condition and my front bucket mount Landpride HD25 post hole digger is on order with Barlows in Somerset, Ky.

learned a big lesson reading these posts---i will be more attentive in the future also with my L3130 GST & 724 loader

 

[mike69440]

" Quote Originally Posted by JOHNTHOMAS View Post
I have a SSQA plate with attachment points for 3 ph and 2" reese hitch built on the front of it. I bought it to use boxblade on the front of a skid steer but now have it attached to a 72" snow plow. Not sure where I bought it but was around the $100 price range.
I also have a front mount backhoe on my B2650 with 25 hours and two new fel cylinder arms that replaced the bent ones.
I have been a back dragger with bucket edge at every angle on all dirt/clay surfaces but will be more attentive in the future. Glad my replacement cylinder arms were under warranty.
PS The front mount backhoe is now for sale for $1500 in like new condition and my front bucket mount Landpride HD25 post hole digger is on order with Barlows in Somerset, Ky."


A front mounted back hoe on a skid steer is a sketchy idea. On a tractor, just get that idea out of your head.

 

[dfkrug]

A front mounted back hoe on a skid steer is a sketchy idea.

I know this is off-topic, but....

A lot of these were sold for skidsteers, tho I do not think most got used a lot. Most required
that you get off the SS seat and move to the hoe seat. Not easy in-and-out of a SS.

I have seen the ones you can operate from your SS seat (Caterpillar), and they are much
better.

 

[Fallon]

I know this is off-topic, but....

A lot of these were sold for skidsteers, tho I do not think most got used a lot. Most required
that you get off the SS seat and move to the hoe seat. Not easy in-and-out of a SS.

I have seen the ones you can operate from your SS seat (Caterpillar), and they are much
better.

There are 2 types I've seen. A full SSQA mounted hoe & SSQA mounted dipper & bucket. Dipper & bucket setup can be run from the seat, not sure if it has any side to side pivot. I'd almost think about trying one if I could get it for the right price, but I suspect the curl cylinders on the loader wouldn't be up to the task. I blew a fork off my pallet forks luckily when doing back dragging with a bucket spade before I knew better. Luckily it was only some hammering & grinding to fix the fork frame & not a bent curl cylinder.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

" Quote Originally Posted by JOHNTHOMAS View Post
I have a SSQA plate with attachment points for 3 ph and 2" reese hitch built on the front of it. I bought it to use boxblade on the front of a skid steer but now have it attached to a 72" snow plow. Not sure where I bought it but was around the $100 price range.
I also have a front mount backhoe on my B2650 with 25 hours and two new fel cylinder arms that replaced the bent ones.
I have been a back dragger with bucket edge at every angle on all dirt/clay surfaces but will be more attentive in the future. Glad my replacement cylinder arms were under warranty.
PS The front mount backhoe is now for sale for $1500 in like new condition and my front bucket mount Landpride HD25 post hole digger is on order with Barlows in Somerset, Ky."


A front mounted back hoe on a skid steer is a sketchy idea. On a tractor, just get that idea out of your head.

I know this is off-topic, but....

A lot of these were sold for skidsteers, tho I do not think most got used a lot. Most required
that you get off the SS seat and move to the hoe seat. Not easy in-and-out of a SS.

I have seen the ones you can operate from your SS seat (Caterpillar), and they are much
better.

There are 2 types I've seen. A full SSQA mounted hoe & SSQA mounted dipper & bucket. Dipper & bucket setup can be run from the seat, not sure if it has any side to side pivot. I'd almost think about trying one if I could get it for the right price, but I suspect the curl cylinders on the loader wouldn't be up to the task. I blew a fork off my pallet forks luckily when doing back dragging with a bucket spade before I knew better. Luckily it was only some hammering & grinding to fix the fork frame & not a bent curl cylinder.

Looks like info from people that have never used sonething only dreamed about them or researched thme online. I do a lot of that myself but I also buy a lot of "stuff" and try it and post my actual experience with the "item". I bought the front "hoe" for my SS after watching one being used on a SS video. I sold my SS and replaced it with a Kubota B2650, my 20th or so Kubota. I had hydraulics installed on the tractor so I could use the "hoe". Yes, there are two types, one pivots for much more dollars and mine did not pivot for much less dollars. I actually used the non pivot one on my B2650 and dug some holes and a 150' ditch. The non pivot aspect wasn't much of an issue since one digs, slight movement, dump, slight movement back and dig more and repeat. Easier than it sounds but really not an issue with SS or tractor. I'll post pics if TBN is now taking pictures.
I did sell the "hoe" the day after I decided to keep it but man showed up with 15 one hundred bills. Another man I know had came by to visit me, saw the "hoe" and called me later wanting it but told him he was to late. He has owned track hoes, tractors, SSs and other construction equipment.
The thing appeared to be indestructible piece of heavy steel with a solid heavy duty piston for bucket digging. Doubt any one could tear it up or break it on any reasonable size machine.

 

[JWR]

Couple of comments: The rig pictured above is a great tool if you can live with straight line work and do not need to pivot sideways to dump or dig. I'd say it is a beneficial tool only if there is no need to dump to the side (I'd think everyone really wants to dump to the side??) and if it is a supplemental occasional use tool. Most smaller Kubotas do not have the hydraulic remotes to drive this and adding them is expensive. If it gets used a lot I'd do something different. Second comment: No tractor manufacturer has (or is willing to divulge) torque data on what their front end loaders will stand in the "twist" mode. A really useful FEL mounted tool is going to involve twist on the FEL and 10X more if it dumps to the side. Even large tractor FELs can fairly easily get bent or distorted if you apply a lot of twist to them. Many SSLA interface mfrs caution AGAINST using them on tractor FELs.

 

[rScotty]

Couple of comments: The rig pictured above is a great tool if you can live with straight line work and do not need to pivot sideways to dump or dig. I'd say it is a beneficial tool only if there is no need to dump to the side (I'd think everyone really wants to dump to the side??) Many SSLA interface mfrs caution AGAINST using them on tractor FELs.

Here's a front bucket mod that is even more primitive. It's one I put together somewhat more than 30 years ago. The crazy thing about it is that it not only worked, it did useful work for at least a decade. I think you can see that the FEL is lightly built by anyone's standards. Nonetheless, this rig worked in rocky ground and sure beat working with a shovel. It did useful trenching work without damage to the tractor.
rScotty

 

[JWR]

rScotty -- now that deserves an award of some kind. Not universal. Not fancy. Won't do many things. But what it DOES do is save some back-breaking labor with very, very little cost. What I like is the attitude of "making do with what we have." I can remember growing up when we converted from horses to a Massey Harris Pacer. Anything that you could kludge together and make it work was good. Anything else was way too expensive and not going to happen.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Couple of comments: The rig pictured above is a great tool if you can live with straight line work and do not need to pivot sideways to dump or dig. I'd say it is a beneficial tool only if there is no need to dump to the side (I'd think everyone really wants to dump to the side??) and if it is a supplemental occasional use tool. Most smaller Kubotas do not have the hydraulic remotes to drive this and adding them is expensive. If it gets used a lot I'd do something different. Second comment: No tractor manufacturer has (or is willing to divulge) torque data on what their front end loaders will stand in the "twist" mode. A really useful FEL mounted tool is going to involve twist on the FEL and 10X more if it dumps to the side. Even large tractor FELs can fairly easily get bent or distorted if you apply a lot of twist to them. Many SSLA interface mfrs caution AGAINST using them on tractor FELs.

I always "dumped to the side" but if you mean while sitting still like my other backhoes on my other Kubotas, no, it doesn't sit in one spot and dump to the side. I'd owned other BHs before buying this and understood it's limitations and benefits. Yep, it had benefits over a standard piviting BH with the seperate or turning seat and side arms/feet that had to be lowered and raised to move (usually).
Yep, there are even some actions that required more attention to keep from damaging the tractor like with almost all implements. But for $1500!!!!!! You'll not find a better digger and yes the hydraulics were added to the front to the tune of $900 but they are still there for my hydraulic post hole digger and maybe grapple. I laugh at people that buy we.... b.... and r... b..... and t.... b... and l........ r.... and I've owned them all and sold them all but I admit they each have their place and purpose. I've had many posts here that said a BH cost could rarely ever be justified and I can almost agree and bought three or 4 machines with them. You got yhe need and money or like me great credit, get it before you die and your replacement gets it all.:laughing::cool2:

 

[Xfaxman]

This is the other style that John mentioned in post #32, the swing arm backhoe attachment, it costs more, but it pivots:

 

[mike69440]

An option for occasional use with a skid steer, as a skid steer easily skid steers to the side to dump, plus the loader on a skid steer can take the twisting and loading better than a tractor's FEL

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

An option for occasional use with a skid steer, as a skid steer easily skid steers to the side to dump, plus the loader on a skid steer can take the twisting and loading better than a tractor's FEL

Yep, I bought it for my SS but sold SS and kept it for my tractor and yep, the SS is heavier duty and most implements for an SS cost more than the same implements for a tractor because they are made for heavier duty. The back/front hoe is very usable on a tractor of the proper size, and with proper use of the implement. Raising it high with cylinder arms extended to the max and keeping them there to use is not a good thing no more than driving across a hill with ones bucket totally raised up in the air. I guess any idiot can buy a tractor and that's why there are funeral homes and repair shops. But most of us learn what's acceptable and what causes damage and death.
I know it's easy to poo pa things ones never tried or used or operated and is really cheap/not out any of ones own money. I like to buy stuff and find out from experience instead of theory or opinion.:cool2: