Need Help w/Conduit & Pulling Cable

[RedNeckGeek]

A couple years ago I buried about 50' of 1" PVC conduit using sprinkler system type 45 and 90 degree elbows to get an RG6 coax cable between the pump house and my home. It was part of a cell phone booster installation. Now I'd like to run CAT5 cable through that same conduit, but I'm having trouble getting an electrician's tape past the 90 degree elbows. It's one of those flat steel tapes and is very stiff. I tried to hook up a shop vac to one end using duct tape, but didn't get any air being pulled from the other end, probably because the exposed end I taped to was short and there were air leaks around the RG6 cable. Are there any other techniques I could use to fish the wire? Maybe a different kind of fish tape? Short of that, I'll end up digging up the ends of the conduit, which will make a mess of the landscaping at each end.

 

[reb]

I'd probably use the existing cable to pull a new one and the Cat5 cable. Or use the old one to pull a wire to use to pull both at the same time.

 

[k0ua]

Get a spring nose to put on your fish tape. Halfway down this page Or you can make a facsimile with an old timey screen door spring. You want something that can guide you around the bends easier. Or use a fiberglass fish tape.

 

[k0ua]

I'd probably use the existing cable to pull a new one and the Cat5 cable. Or use the old one to pull a wire to use to pull both at the same time.

That can work too, and has the added advantage of no chance of getting your second wire wound up in your first wire. Which can sometimes happen when pulling in a second wire with an existing wire already in the conduit.

 

[prichard]

What's a sprinkler 90? Is that like a plumbing 90? If so good luck. There's a reason electical 90s are sweeps.

 

[davesl708]

I'd probably use the existing cable to pull a new one and the Cat5 cable. Or use the old one to pull a wire to use to pull both at the same time.

I would go with reb's suggestion with plenty of lub on the cable. Include a pull line to leave in the conduit for the next future pull.

 

[Industrial Toys]

There are media adapters that convert 75 ohm coax to eithernet, well beyond the speed most people have service levels at. I use Verocity High Wire Units to go about 500 feet, to get my Internet. They are a bit pricey and are active units, but there are passive, much cheaper units that I have never tried. They still claim good speed.

I have a access to wholesale veracity stuff, but bought mine even cheaper on E-Bay.

 

[Billrog]

Put a small piece or rag on the end of a good nylon string and stick your vacuum cleaner at the other end it will pull it through in 1/2 a sec. flat. then you can pull your wire threw with the string. Soap or grease your wire.

 

[beowulf]

How many 90s and 45s and what kind? PVC or electrical sweeps? Many of the suggestions here should work. I have navigated a fish tape for about 60 feet in 3/4 inch pvc with two 90s but both were sweeps. I don't think I could have managed that if the 90s were the abrupt turns in sprinkler type pvc.

 

[MossRoad]

As others have mentioned, a problem with pulling a second wire through a small tube with existing wire is it may get tangled around the existing wire, or burn the insulation with friction as you pull it in.

If it were me, again, as others have mentioned, I'd tie a clump of cotton or a plastic baggie to a piece of strong fishing line and suck it through the conduit with a vacuum. It should pop through in an instant. Crazy fast. Then use the fishing line to pull in a heavier cord, then the cord to pull the new wire.

If that doesn't work, then there's probably a blockage in the conduit. Next bet is to use the old wire as the pull cable. Cut it off at one end, tie the new wire onto it(run another pull cord with it this time for future use), and pull it through.

Either way you do it, use plenty of pulling lube. It makes a HUGE difference and helps prevent friction burn-through.

And it's cheap!!!

Shop IDEAL 32-fl oz Yellow Wire Pulling Lubricant at Lowes.com

 

[2458n]

MossRoad offers you the best method. Pour lube in the tube and on a rag for the wire going in. Additional nylon pull line for future need. The 90's will get you every time.

 

[k0ua]

As others have mentioned, a problem with pulling a second wire through a small tube with existing wire is it may get tangled around the existing wire, or burn the insulation with friction as you pull it in.

If it were me, again, as others have mentioned, I'd tie a clump of cotton or a plastic baggie to a piece of strong fishing line and suck it through the conduit with a vacuum. It should pop through in an instant. Crazy fast. Then use the fishing line to pull in a heavier cord, then the cord to pull the new wire.

If that doesn't work, then there's probably a blockage in the conduit. Next bet is to use the old wire as the pull cable. Cut it off at one end, tie the new wire onto it(run another pull cord with it this time for future use), and pull it through.

Either way you do it, use plenty of pulling lube. It makes a HUGE difference and helps prevent friction burn-through.

And it's cheap!!!

Shop IDEAL 32-fl oz Yellow Wire Pulling Lubricant at Lowes.com

All good advice. I have pulled a few thousands of cables into conduits, many with wire already in them. Each situation is different. Nothing beats a nice empty conduit with a nice sturdy pull wire in it already.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Thanks for all the suggestions, but due to my use of short 90 degree elbows (not sweeps), it looks like I'm gonna be doing some digging, cutting, and patching. When I put this thing together a few years ago I had trouble getting the RG6 through, and ended up working it through as the pieces were assembled, kind of like stringing beads. I don't think there's any way it's gonna come out by pulling on one end, as it's just too stiff. I also don't know why I'm not able to generate any vacuum at the opposite end of the conduit using a shop vac, unless there's a break in the conduit somewhere, or the duct tape holding the shop vac nozzle to the end of the conduit is leaking. Heck, I know it's leaking, but access is poor and trying to get a better seal is a challenge.

So the plan now is to dig out each end of the conduit, both of which terminate directly below the outside walls of the two buildings in two short 90 degree elbows, one in the ground and one above it on the building wall penetration. Then I'll very carefully cut the conduit past the buried elbow, and try to feed enough RG6 back through the wall to give me the slack to form a gap large enough to feed in the CAT5. Same deal at the other end, but there the goal is to somehow hook up the shop vac with a good enough seal to pull a fishing line. It's been raining pretty good here for the last week, so I'll give things a few days to dry out, which will also give me some time to snag some cable lube next time I'm in town. Assuming I'm successful, I'l split a PVC union and lots of glue to put the conduit back together.

I actually did think about leaving a pull line in this conduit when it was originally installed, but realized that the four short 90s were going to make it difficult to pull anything else through there, and I was in a hurry to get it done and didn't want to make a special trip for the correct sweeps. Now I'm paying the piper.

 

[k0ua]

Hindsight is alway pretty good. Perhaps your dilemma will help others with their planning.

 

[newbury]

Reading RNG's statement:

<snip> about 50' of 1" PVC conduit <snip> RG6 coax cable <snip>I tried to hook up a shop vac to one end using duct tape, but didn't get any air being pulled from the other end, probably because the exposed end I taped to was short and there were air leaks around the RG6 cable. <snip>

IF he can't suck air it seems the best solution is first make sure he can suck air, what if he has leaky joints?
If not pulling the coax through with a fine wire attached (as reb suggested in post #2), then pulling the old RG6, new CAT 6, and another length of "pull wire" through, along with some appropriate lubrication. I recommend he gets the extra pull wire so when he decides to go to fiber optic in few years the next pull will be easier. And I recommend CAT 6 because it will be just as easy to stuff 6 cats through the pipe as 5, and 6 cats can carry more data.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

And I recommend CAT 6 because it will be just as easy to stuff 6 cats through the pipe as 5, and 6 cats can carry more data.

I've had plenty of experience building sprinkler systems that don't leak, and used plenty of primer and glue on this conduit. I'd be surprised if any of the joints are leaking, certainly attempts to break the ones on the exposed ends have not already been successful. At least the ground will be soft from the recent rains, and digging something up is always easier than digging the original trench.

Already have the CAT5 in hand; all I have to do is remember where I put it.:laughing:

Hind site is always 20/20, right?

 

[PILOON]

Yep, that Ideal Lube works great.
I have used it to insert heat tracing lines in 200 ft runs of water line, and that is by pushing the trace which is just rigid enough to do so.
Dry we could not go past 20-30 ft as it wold buckle and bunch up.

 

[Egon]

Any chance you can blow air through. Use a light line/rope/string with a rag wad on the end and use air to blow it thru. Then pull a sturdier line thru.

( did this once but used the exhaust from a small engine for pressure. No air. )

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Any chance you can blow air through. Use a light line/rope/string with a rag wad on the end and use air to blow it thru. Then pull a sturdier line thru.

( did this once but used the exhaust from a small engine for pressure. No air. )

I did give that some thought, but I couldn't figure out how to seal the duster nozzle to the conduit and still feed the string. Or does it even need a good seal to work? Only one way to find out...:laughing:

 

[Big Barn]

Need Help w/Conduit &amp; Pulling Cable

Get you a $20 Hooker to suck a pull string through the conduit.

Might even be able to write that off...

Edit: if your wife does the books, then disregard.