Idiots and winter driving

[square1]

Co-worker of mine was near the front of it when it started.. Said conditions went from being an easy 70 MPH expressway cruise to zero traction in the blink of an eye. Amazingly and quite luckily he wasn't hit even though the car in front of and behind him were. He watched helplessly as a third car bounced of a concrete abutment as it avoided hitting him. He finally saw a big enough opening to squeeze through and get away from the carnage.

I was on a different road in the vicinity and not a hint of slippery, nonetheless I did consciously and purposely remind myself to slow down and pay attention before crossing the first overpass.

 

[LD48750]

Every LEO & news caster will tell you, SLOW DOWN!!!!

Too many people think that is the answer to every situation on the hiway.

I've spent many years earning a living on the road & find over cautious people driving slow cause more problems then they solve.
True, in most cases, hey themselves are not involved in the accident s they cause but make no mistake, they do cause them.

 

[Deere Dude]

Everybody is an expert till they hit black ice.
I slid past people at stop signs on the right or on the left a few times and it is a scary time. I moved form WI to TN 3 years ago but the most important thing is to slow down, keep the wheels straight and don't hit the brakes in snow. Baby them.

In Wisconsin i haven't been in a ditch or had an accident in 40+ years probably even though I had to venture out everyday and drive 20 miles to work on 2 lane roads. And I went through some heavy snow and drove faster than I should have most of the time using these principles. Maybe a little luck was involved.

Where I live now, a couple inches of snow will shut everything down for a week.

 

[Garandman]

Second that lol, 3-5 inches of snow people drive like it's a dry summer day in a hurry, if it rains people drive 50mph under the speed limit in Ohio lol. /

The MSP calls 4WD pickups and SUV's "ditchfinders."

 

[powerscol]

Not to pick on Texans :thumbsup:, but many years back over Christmas We visited my sister in Huston, On the day we left there had been a major Ice storm overnight, I was pulling my 18' TT with a full size bronco and we had to thread out way through the carnage. All the bridges were glare black ice and folks would drive fast and hit the breaks on the deck and just spin out of control, instead of just driving slowly and neutralizing the drive train on the deck. I probably should not have been driving, but needed to get back for work, God blessed us that day on not getting hit. We had more than one vehicle pass us and loos it right in front . 4x4 and not more than 35MPH made for a very long morning. I did hook up with some truckers and followed their lead. Not sure I would do that now a days.

 

[aczlan]

And they've never heard of winter tires.
First storm in Boston las year, I was driving out of town in about 2" of snow and there was a guy driving a brand new BMW in the passing lane at 20mph. Why spend $50,000 on a car and cheap out over $800 worth of tires?
Usually, though, the 20mph tieup is due to a "I've been driving in snow for nn years and don't need winter tires because of my mad skillz" driver.

My new-to-me car isn't on the road yet and I have already picked up a set of good used studded snowtires for it ($300 mounted, balanced and ready to go, 80% tread depth, all studs are still there, the car they went to was totaled this summer).
IMO, its a good investment. I put together a set for the wife's Yukon this fall, those were around $425, but I sprang for TPMS for her car. If it keeps it out of one accident, it will more than pay for itself (our deductible is $500).

Aaron Z

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

My new-to-me car isn't on the road yet and I have already picked up a set of good used studded snowtires for it ($300 mounted, balanced and ready to go, 80% tread depth, all studs are still there, the car they went to was totaled this summer).
IMO, its a good investment. I put together a set for the wife's Yukon this fall, those were around $425, but I sprang for TPMS for her car. If it keeps it out of one accident, it will more than pay for itself (our deductible is $500).

Aaron Z

Can't run studded tires here

 

[Soldier415]

People don't seem to understand that having 4WD with snow tires helps you GO...but does nothing to help you STOP.

 

[aczlan]

Can't run studded tires here

Here you can from Oct to Apr. I wouldn't pay extra for studs, but they came with studs, so I will leave them in.

Aaron Z

 

[MossRoad]

People don't seem to understand that having 4WD with snow tires helps you GO...but does nothing to help you STOP.

It was my understanding the snow tires will help you stop better.

 

[LD48750]

It was my understanding the snow tires will help you stop better.

It's his fantasy , let him have it.

Unbelievable how many people want to bash 4x4's that have no idea what they are talking about.
It's the fashionable thing to do.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

It's his fantasy , let him have it.

Unbelievable how many people want to bash 4x4's that have no idea what they are talking about.
It's the fashionable thing to do.

Any 4x4 I have ever had wasn't driven on the road in 4x4, if it's that bad on the roads I'm packing in wood and enjoying my fireplace. Luckily around here the roads stay nice and clean usually and they can stay on top of the snow, ice on the other hand is another story.

As far as how 4x4s vs regulars handle in snow, I have had bad experiences in them all, I made a left turn in a small town with a rwd trail blazer in 2wd and before I know it was facing the wrong way in the road lol spun around so fast and I had parked cars on both sides of the street, didn't hit anything luckily.

I had a lifted 1985 F150 with 33in mud tires, snow got bad when I was at work and took my truck into town for lunch, funny thing about those old trucks is 90% of breaking is up front lol front kept locking up and I had to swerve around cars and stop on the shoulder, never hit anyone on that one.

In my experience if you put lots of weight above the drive tires it helps you get around 1000 times better. I have owned front and rear wheel drive cars, 2wd and 4wd pick ups and in Ohio we get a decent amount of snow per year, 98 times out of 100 it's the inability to stop that makes me almost have accidents. I have never really had a traction issue accelerating, but trucks get 400-800lbs in the bed and cars have a motor sitting on the drive wheels so I have never needed 4x4 unless I was somewhere I shouldn't be like in a snowy field ext.

Only drawback I see with 4x4 owners is they think they can get away with going faster is all, they forget about turns and stopping sometimes. But no big deal, that's what AAA is for.

Another thing to add is I see people stopped in the middle of the road or going 15mph when the conditions can easily handle 45 safely, I have had a few white knuckle moments because of people like that, especially is snow picks up and they start coming up really fast and that thought of not being able to stop fast enough pops into your mind, thinking of ditching it or gambling on a safe pass in the left lane.

I love snow but driving in it is stressful and I avoid it unless I have to.

 

[Garandman]

It's his fantasy , let him have it.

Unbelievable how many people want to bash 4x4's that have no idea what they are talking about.
It's the fashionable thing to do.

:laughing: That's probably what they are talking about!

The big problem is that most OEM tires are terrible in snow, and "All Season" tires can have highly variable performance on snow and ice. You can have the most sophisticated drive system imaginable but that won't help you much if the tires have no grip.

The "No Season" problem became so significant that the Canadians and NIST developed the Severe Snow rating. This is a performance-based standard and tires that achieve that standard have the "Mountain Snowflake" icon. If manufacturers of "No Reason" tires could pass the standard, they would: they can't. There are a very small number of "All Weather" tires that have a treadwear rating (not required for winter tires), a treadwear warranty (most winter tires don't), and the Mountain/Snowflake. "M+S" isn't a performance standard: it just indicates there is 25% open tread.

The Nokian WRG3 (cars, light trucks and SUV's) and Rotiiva (truck) have both. There are a couple others.

We used to put Nokian WR's on all our company cars. But the newest winter tires last longer, aren't as noisy, get better mpg, and are better on dry roads than older designs. Most of our vehicles now have Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2's, but we also have one set of Blizzak WS80's and one set of General Altimax Arctic for comparison. We also used Michelin X-Ice but while they performed well they are as expensive as the Nokians but didn't last nearly as long, so we gave up on them.

Don't have an A/S for comparison but here's the difference between the Nokian WRG2 and Hakkapeliitta R [one generation back] showing the difference. We don't use studded tires anymore because the new "friction" tires work better in most weather conditions.

 

[aeblank]

I'm working on a set (wheels, tires, TPMS, & TPMS learning tool) for my 2500HD. Spendy proposition....

 

[Garandman]

I'm working on a set (wheels, tires, TPMS, & TPMS learning tool) for my 2500HD. Spendy proposition....

We hate the new cars. My 2006 Outback has a very unobtrusive light, so I ignore it.

Our Honda Odyssey is suppsed to recognize two sets of TPMS: it never works and we have to reset them. The Chevy Cruze diesels we have are pretty easy to reset and we got take-off rims from a Chevrolet Volt on eBay. For $10 a wheel the local garage swaps the wheels are resets the TPMS.

Have you looked on eBay for rims? The kids all want monster meats now so you can often find stock take-offs pretty cheap.

 

[aczlan]

My wife's 2005 Yukon doesn't require a tool, there is a procedure (something like key on/off 5 times, then let air out of LF, RF, RR, LR tires in turn until the horn chirps).

Aaron Z

 

[aeblank]

That air down doesn't work on newer (2011?) GMCs... Need the $85 tool, or I'm getting the smarter $185 tool to fix the snows on my other car (Honda). They used to work (different $100 tool to swap the codes in the computer), but one of them must be bad or have a dead battery. No idea which one. The spendy tool does a 2-way communication, instead of just "pinging" them like the cheap tool. Thanks FMVSS for requiring this. Thanks engineers (and I am one, but not automotive) for designing a stupid system.

Actually, the only thing I DO have are the wheels. 17" takeoffs from a 3/4 ton van. Look silly vs my (stock) 20s, but I don't care.....
I've since painted them black, at least....

 

[Egon]

Any 4x4 I have ever had wasn't driven on the road in 4x4, if it's that bad on the roads I'm packing in wood and enjoying my fireplace. Luckily around here the roads stay nice and clean usually and they can stay on top of the snow, ice on the other hand is another story.

As far as how 4x4s vs regulars handle in snow, I have had bad experiences in them all, I made a left turn in a small town with a rwd trail blazer in 2wd and before I know it was facing the wrong way in the road lol spun around so fast and I had parked cars on both sides of the street, didn't hit anything luckily.

I had a lifted 1985 F150 with 33in mud tires, snow got bad when I was at work and took my truck into town for lunch, funny thing about those old trucks is 90% of breaking is up front lol front kept locking up and I had to swerve around cars and stop on the shoulder, never hit anyone on that one.

In my experience if you put lots of weight above the drive tires it helps you get around 1000 times better. I have owned front and rear wheel drive cars, 2wd and 4wd pick ups and in Ohio we get a decent amount of snow per year, 98 times out of 100 it's the inability to stop that makes me almost have accidents. I have never really had a traction issue accelerating, but trucks get 400-800lbs in the bed and cars have a motor sitting on the drive wheels so I have never needed 4x4 unless I was somewhere I shouldn't be like in a snowy field ext.

Only drawback I see with 4x4 owners is they think they can get away with going faster is all, they forget about turns and stopping sometimes. But no big deal, that's what AAA is for.

Another thing to add is I see people stopped in the middle of the road or going 15mph when the conditions can easily handle 45 safely, I have had a few white knuckle moments because of people like that, especially is snow picks up and they start coming up really fast and that thought of not being able to stop fast enough pops into your mind, thinking of ditching it or gambling on a safe pass in the left lane.

I love snow but driving in it is stressful and I avoid it unless I have to.

Oh no; I have full time four wheel drive. Add in traction control, load levelling and braking control that should really be a disaster. I didn't realize it was a handicap? Should I take the studded winter tire's off and put the summer tire's back on?

 

[Garandman]

FWIW HD and Lowes etc sell "Tube Sand." 60 lbs of sand in a plastic tube so you can stack them between the wheel wells. We use up to ten of them in our Transit van, and the Express before it. They're $5 each or less.

 

[aeblank]

Oh no; I have full time four wheel drive. I didn't realize it was a handicap? Should I take the studded winter tire's off and put the summer tire's back on?

haha!

I don't care for categorically calling out 4x4s. Though I do like the SUVs that don't know that they have to *put it into* 4-wheel drive.

I'm sure I drive too fast if I'm in my 4 wheel drive truck, full-time all wheel drive charger, or front wheel drive civic.
In city/traffic, AWD or 4WD can't be duplicated. Even with snow tires.

I'll handle the stopping as a completely different function than going. I'm able to separate the two.....