Three Point Hitch Log Splitter not working - ideas?

[UncleDaddy]

Hi, I've tried searching the forum and can't find an answer to this question. I would love any feedback you all have on this.

I bought a Speeco "county line" 3pt hitch style log splitter from tractor supply to run on my 2001 New Holland TN75D. It uses the remote hydraulics, not PTO power. I assembled the unit and hooked up two hydraulic hoses to the unit's switch housing area. I hooked these hoses to the tractor remotes. I read the manual but it is very basic and doesn't seem to cover what I am experiencing. When I hooked up the unit I engaged the hydraulic lever in the cab to the right direction which will apply pressure to the outgoing line. The log splitter moved in a jerky fashion, with the switch handle jumping back and forth. I climbed down and engaged the switch handle and then tried this again. The cylinder stroked out halfway and then stopped. The switch handle on the splitter was still shaking back and forth, as though it couldn't decide if it could stay shut or open.

My dad is a pretty competent mechanical guy. He came over and we worked on it for a bit. Still the same thing occurred, even with him holding the switch lever in various positions while I applied hydraulic pressure. The switch is not working the way we think it should or we are failing to do something correctly. The cylinder will not move--neither retract or finish the stroke. It is halfway extended. I thought it might be air in the lines. I removed the lines and bled them to see fluid, and they appear pressurized and full. I tried the lines in a different configuration. I tried different combinations of moving the hydraulic control lever in the cab of the tractor. I cannot seem to get it to work. Any thoughts? I am concerned because as I read online people talk about severely damaging the tractor's hydraulic pump if blockage of flow occurs. Before I go any further I'd like some feedback from someone who knows more than me about these remote hydraulic systems and how to use them with log splitters. Also, there is a shaft that was included in the bag that came with the splitter. As to this, the manual reads: "A closed spool kit is included in the hardware kit for converting open center valves to closed center." There are no instructions as to what this means and I can't find anything online. Is this something to try?

Thanks a lot.

 

[KYErik]

Your system is probably closed center- you will probably need to add the kit to the valve.

 

[LD1]

The tractor should be an open center system. The logsplitter valve needs to also be an open center valve. Which should be the default way the valve comes. And installing an optional CC plug for a closed center system.

Step one is we need to know it's hooked up correctly.

This isn't meant to offend you, but it's clear you don't know hydraulics. So when you say you hooked the hoses to the "switch" I assume you meant the valve.

We need pictures. Need to assure it is hooked correctly

 

[KYErik]

Yes- please do send a pic of how all the hoses are connected to the valve. I was my understanding that most tractors made since the 1970's used closed center systems- but I could be wrong. My 1963 Ford 4000 has an open system while my dad's 1980's JD 2840 has a closed center system.

How many pairs of remotes do you have on the back of your tractor? If you have more than one pair, is it possible that you connected each of the logsplitter valve lines to non- paired remotes on the tractor?

 

[LD1]

Most tractors are indeed open center.

JD was the big one that always used CC systems, but even they have several models that are open center.

Just think about all the threads on here talking about power beyond. If most tractors were indeed CC, we wouldn't be walking through remote and 3rd function installs and explaining power beyond all the time. It would simply be a tee in the pressure line.

 

[UncleDaddy]

Thanks for the replies. I can take a picture tomorrow if I don't get it solved. I dug around online and did more reading and it looks to me like this extra closed center conversion kit may be the answer. I read this: Hydraulics 11 for Beginners | Agriculture | Tractor Supply Co. --- which is aptly titled "hydraulics for beginners." Halfway through it goes into the open vs closed center system. I still have no idea what it means, but it's making me think I need to change this part out in the valve (not switch...hehe).

And yes I hooked the two lines to the same remote pair and hooked them according to what I thought was the output and return line on that remote pair. No, I don't know anything about hydraulics and I do not take offense to that. I usually have my mechanic do this stuff but he is working on other things for me and I thought I'd do this easy little project myself but here I am...

I'll see if I can throw this part at it tomorrow and maybe it will solve the issue. The url I included above said that "newer" equipment has the closed center system more commonly than the open center. Maybe that's why they include that kit stock with the package... Maybe an '01 tractor is considered newer... Who knows... Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate your time and input.

 

[KYErik]

LD1- thanks for that info. I was assuming wrong.

Hydraulic Pump Selection Guide

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I could be wrong, but I think you cannot mix open and closed center valves in the same system. Does your Speeco manual have a hydraulic diagram and/or discuss whether it is closed or open? I would be surprised if the TS help knows this answer but doesn't hurt to ask. Better yet call the factory tech help desk. You may need your tractor hydraulic diagram also. These things are hard to diagnose via a forum especially when the OP isn't familial with the lingo of the trade. Pictures can help a lot if they portray both systems well.

Ron

 

[LD1]

Thanks for the replies. I can take a picture tomorrow if I don't get it solved. I dug around online and did more reading and it looks to me like this extra closed center conversion kit may be the answer. I read this: Hydraulics 11 for Beginners | Agriculture | Tractor Supply Co. --- which is aptly titled "hydraulics for beginners." Halfway through it goes into the open vs closed center system. I still have no idea what it means, but it's making me think I need to change this part out in the valve (not switch...hehe).

And yes I hooked the two lines to the same remote pair and hooked them according to what I thought was the output and return line on that remote pair. No, I don't know anything about hydraulics and I do not take offense to that. I usually have my mechanic do this stuff but he is working on other things for me and I thought I'd do this easy little project myself but here I am...

I'll see if I can throw this part at it tomorrow and maybe it will solve the issue. The url I included above said that "newer" equipment has the closed center system more commonly than the open center. Maybe that's why they include that kit stock with the package... Maybe an '01 tractor is considered newer... Who knows... Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate your time and input.

You may have more going on than a simple open vs closed center incompatibility between tractor and valve. Thus why I want to see how you have it hooked.

The only difference between open and CC in the valve....Is when the logsplitter valve is in neutral. When the handle is pulled to operate the splitter....Functionally they are the same.

So even if the valve is CC and tractor an open center position.....The logsplitter should still work. And vice versa.

The issue that causes you to NEED to make sure they are both the same is only when the valve is in neutral. Because a CC tractor on an open center valve will continue to pump fluid through the valve and never generate any pressure if you were to want to use another hydraulic function. (Like the 3ph keeping the splitter suspended). And reverse the scenario, and have a CC valve on an open center system, and you dead head the pump and cook your fluid and burn stuff up. But that's not something that happens immediately. It takes awhile to heat up all that fluid and cause any real damage.

So while you need to be sure the valve matches the tractor system....It won't cause the issues you describe. But air certainly will.

It's a new splitter with no oil. Pull the lever and it tries to pump oil in the cylinder that is full of air. It compresses the air up to the point that the cylinder moves. But that compressed air isn't a nice and smooth motion, it will go all at once and quickly until the friction of the piston seals overcome the air pressure and it stops again. Keep holding the lever and the cycle repeats....Compress the remaining air....Cylinder jumps out a bit more....Then stops again.

Once you manage to get the cylinder fully extended....There will still be compressed air in there. But now we need to retract. And that side of the cylinder is also full of air. Do it will act just the same.

It will take several full cycles to get all the air out. I suspect this is the only issue, but wanted to see pictures of how you have the lines hooked just to be sure

 

[enfield]

Resurrecting this thread because we've sold the Kubota that was always used to run our Speeco 3ph splitter. Now our only tractor is a John Deere 2240 - with closed center hydraulics. If I understood the previous post correctly, there is no harm in running an OC splitter valve so long as no other hydraulic function on the tractor is needed while the supply to the splitter valve is in use. I also assume that there will be no problems at all when the control valve on the tractor is in the "neutral" position.
Looking for some experienced guidance here. I have a spool for CC, but no one at Speeco seems to be able to tell me how to remove the valve detent assembly from the current OC spool. tia,
Enfield

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Lets all sit back and breath deeply.

Our best solution can only be derived by reviewing piping diagrams for both the tractor and the splitter. Pictures also help a lot.

Most modern tractors are piped as open center hydraulic system and most splitter valves are open center.

Unless your tractor has a closed system (CC) (which I doubt) we only need to address open center (OC) systems. I agree the TS manual short changes the definitions of the two type systems. A simple phone call to SpeeCo and your tractor supplier will get you the answers to the tractor and splitter valve types. The tractor supplier's service manager may be willing to explain how to connect your splitter. Many shop mechanics know how to work on their tractors systems but cannot explain how or why things work.

There is a lot of info on hydraulic systems on the net. In OC systems the key is there is continuous flow of fluid through the systems valves back to the sump (commonly identified as T).

By the way the remote outputs (2) are the up and down for a cylinder, the controlling valve circuit provides the return to the T.

To really understand hydraulic systems you need to know the definitions, symbols, and acronyms.

It took me many hours of study to get a rudimentary knowledge of hydraulics but that did not make me an expert.

I have a tractor that is plumbed for an open center back hoe system. It use 3 hoses, one connects the flow back to the system to complete the flow pattern called the power beyond (PB). I set my splitter up to connect to the back hoe lines same as the hoe with 3 hoses. One hose is the power (P), another returns to sump T and the other is the PB back to the main system.

The OP needs to provide drawings, data, and pictures for us armchair engineers. Sorry if I have muddied the water worse.

Ron

 

[ericm979]

I'd look for the manufacturer info on the valve and ask them, or look up their docs. The log splitter company just buys whatever valve is cheapest at the time.

 

[enfield]

I reopened this thread today, but I am not the OP. Having run into problems in dealing with Speeco, I began looking for good advice here. Our JD 2240 tractor was bought new, and it has successfully powered many different implements over the years. It has one valve block. When we bought the Speeco, its manual advised against using the splitter with a JD 2240, so the splitter always got used with the Kubota 8540. Now the Kubota is gone, so I bought a spool to install into the Speeco splitter valve to make it compatible with the JD. But, do I even need to switch the spools if there is no need to use other hydraulic functions while the tractor's hydraulic control valve is held open to power the splitter? Will the auto return feature work with the John Deere? Hope this clarifies the matter,
Enfield

 

[K5lwq]

I reopened this thread today, but I am not the OP. Having run into problems in dealing with Speeco, I began looking for good advice here. Our JD 2240 tractor was bought new, and it has successfully powered many different implements over the years. It has one valve block. When we bought the Speeco, its manual advised against using the splitter with a JD 2240, so the splitter always got used with the Kubota 8540. Now the Kubota is gone, so I bought a spool to install into the Speeco splitter valve to make it compatible with the JD. But, do I even need to switch the spools if there is no need to use other hydraulic functions while the tractor's hydraulic control valve is held open to power the splitter? Will the auto return feature work with the John Deere? Hope this clarifies the matter,
Enfield

I would think it will work just fine. All the splitter valve needs is power in and return to tank correct? If you have a remote valve on the 2240 and it is held open, you have power on one line and return to tank on the other. Certainly would not hurt to try it.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Where is the OP with answers/pictures we have been asking for?

Here are 2 paragraphs from another forum on this subject:

Open center hydraulics allow the oil to pass through the control valve when the valve is in the neutral position. A closed center valve shuts off the flow through the valve unless it is in a demand position. Using a closed center control valve on an open center system will force the relief valve to open to bypass oil when the valve is in the neutral position.

You can't just use a closed center valve if the system is designed for an open center one. A closed center valve will keep the oil from returning to reservoir with the valve in neutral causing the relief valve to open. Running in this condition will cause the system to overheat.

Ron

 

[LD1]

Where is the OP with answers/pictures we have been asking for?

Here are 2 paragraphs from another forum on this subject:

Open center hydraulics allow the oil to pass through the control valve when the valve is in the neutral position. A closed center valve shuts off the flow through the valve unless it is in a demand position. Using a closed center control valve on an open center system will force the relief valve to open to bypass oil when the valve is in the neutral position.

You can't just use a closed center valve if the system is designed for an open center one. A closed center valve will keep the oil from returning to reservoir with the valve in neutral causing the relief valve to open. Running in this condition will cause the system to overheat.

Ron

Probably long since figured out his issue since it was almost 5 years ago. This thread was just resurrected yesterday

 

[enfield]

Yes, the current question is: can you use an open center splitter valve with a closed center system?
Enfield

 

[CADplans]

Yes, the current question is: can you use an open center splitter valve with a closed center system?
Enfield

94% chance is that it will work.

The JD usually stops pumping oil when there is no use, saving fuel. Hence the name, Closed Center valve.
The little hydraulic oil (with no pressure load) that is pumped when the splitter is "waiting",,
will cause the tractor to consume WAY less extra fuel ever,, as compared to what a new valve will cost.

Proof of my hypothesis will only cost the purchase price of the two hydraulic connectors,,
Those connectors will need to be purchased anyways, even if you later find the CCH valve IS needed.

We ran a hydraulic driven water pump off of the closed center hydraulics of a JD 4430.
That hydraulic system is basically identical to the 2240,,
AND, running a pump is very similar to the wood splitter valve passing hydraulic oil through, and back to the tractor.
(compared to the tractor, the water pump virtually took zero horsepower to operate, It was similar to one of those little 12 volt pumps that comes with the 40 gallon weed sprayer tank, when we engaged the pump, there was no change in engine sound.)

There is ONE very big, important point, DO NOT connect the hoses to the valve such that flow is reversed!!
If that occurs, there will be no local pressure relief at the wood splitter.

The valve handle will lock, you will think you "BLEW UP" your wood slitter,,
Normally, there is no problem, other than needing to reverse the position of the valve in the tractor.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I reopened this thread today, but I am not the OP. Having run into problems in dealing with Speeco, I began looking for good advice here. Our JD 2240 tractor was bought new, and it has successfully powered many different implements over the years. It has one valve block. When we bought the Speeco, its manual advised against using the splitter with a JD 2240, so the splitter always got used with the Kubota 8540. Now the Kubota is gone, so I bought a spool to install into the Speeco splitter valve to make it compatible with the JD. But, do I even need to switch the spools if there is no need to use other hydraulic functions while the tractor's hydraulic control valve is held open to power the splitter? Will the auto return feature work with the John Deere? Hope this clarifies the matter,
Enfield

Enfield:
The spool (plug) blocks the internal functions of the open system power beyond port. Installing it makes your SpeeCo valve a closed center same as your JD system, so you need it. The primary thing is assuring the fluid gets back to the tank through your remote valve. Make sure the PB outlet is plugged and the power side of the remote connections is connected to the Power inlet of the SpeeCO. The other hose then connects to the other connector. You will know in a hurry if they are reversed as CAD stated. Should work.

Ron