Robotic Following Cart to Replace Light Duty Tractor Tasks?

[Shaneard]

Joe, thanks for the tech tip, we have a background in autoguidance technology in the big ag equipment space so have some good ideas on how to do it (perhaps similar to what you mentioned although there are other solutions).

We know we can get it to work, but what we are looking for is a target market to launch into where there is an actual pain point for shuttling smaller payloads by hand back and forth. Grape harvest (when by hand), vegetables (when by hand), and perhaps refuse collection in certain segments (i.e. picking up dead birds in broiler/turkey growouts) are our top ones at the moment.

In essence, a Burro would function as a virtual conveyor belt from a pick point to a collection point.

View attachment 498724

That front wheel looks like it's carrying a lot of weight on it. What will happen when it rains? You know people still have to harvest when it rains or shortly thereafter and that front wheel will be stuck.

 

[aczlan]

That front wheel looks like it's carrying a lot of weight on it. What will happen when it rains? You know people still have to harvest when it rains or shortly thereafter and that front wheel will be stuck.

That was one reason I suggested tracks.
Are you looking at electric or hydraulic motors to drive the wheels?

Aaron Z

 

[candersen10]

What does the laborer do while waiting on the cart to return to him?



TBS

The cart can take many bins. The laborer leaves one empty, and when the last one remains empty, removes it from the cart and picks into it while the cart goes back to be emptied.

 

[candersen10]

That was one reason I suggested tracks.
Are you looking at electric or hydraulic motors to drive the wheels?

Aaron Z

Electric motors of course. Hydraulic motors with a diesel engine would be cost prohibitive. It would run off of removable sealed lead-acid 12V batteries.

 

[candersen10]

That front wheel looks like it's carrying a lot of weight on it. What will happen when it rains? You know people still have to harvest when it rains or shortly thereafter and that front wheel will be stuck.

The mechanical stuff is easy to solve. We grew up on working farms and know the needs of the space. Double wheels up front, second set of wheels instead of the castor, tracks, are all feasible, but at a cost.

Re: payload comments, what's the max amount of produce you can carry yourself? Perhaps 80 pounds? That's been our thinking, and thus a machine that can carry about triple the amount should be valuable, and if it does the transit as well and allows you to just keep working that should be valuable.

In essence, a virtual conveyor belt that can carry up to 250 pounds back and forth from picker to collection point, and then come back empty and ready for refill.

If it worked, would you see value in it to the point that you might pay $4-5K? If not, do you think anyone would?

 

[MossRoad]

Electric motors of course. Hydraulic motors with a diesel engine would be cost prohibitive. It would run off of removable sealed lead-acid 12V batteries.

For the past 3 years, one of my responsibilities is to maintain about 30 electric pallet jacks, several electric skid movers, a few electric skid wrappers and two electric forklifts. They all use lead-acid 12V batteries (not sealed). The batteries rarely last more than three years and the chargers fail often as well. For 25 years before that, I was in I.T., and one of my responsibilities was maintaining uninterruptible power supplies. Those use sealed lead acid batteries. They also had an expected life of only 3 years. Have you done any studies on expected battery life and replacement costs, as well as charging? Will the charger be included in the price or purchased separately? How long is the recharge time? Will it last all day out in the field or require a battery swap mid-day? etc... just some more things to think about.

 

[MossRoad]

...

In essence, a virtual conveyor belt that can carry up to 250 pounds back and forth from picker to collection point, and then come back empty and ready for refill.

...

You're counting on it being able to keep up with the human picker. Most pickers I've seen in commercial settings pick really, really fast because they get payed by how much they pick in a day. How will this machine be able to account for who picked which bin? Now you're adding coding to bins and an accounting system to keep track.

 

[aczlan]

You're counting on it being able to keep up with the human picker. Most pickers I've seen in commercial settings pick really, really fast because they get payed by how much they pick in a day. How will this machine be able to account for who picked which bin? Now you're adding coding to bins and an accounting system to keep track.

Usually they put a number with chalk, or a tag with a crew/picker number on the apple bins.

Aaron Z

 

[MossRoad]

Usually they put a number with chalk, or a tag with a crew/picker number on the apple bins.

Aaron Z

Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[candersen10]

For the past 3 years, one of my responsibilities is to maintain about 30 electric pallet jacks, several electric skid movers, a few electric skid wrappers and two electric forklifts. They all use lead-acid 12V batteries (not sealed). The batteries rarely last more than three years and the chargers fail often as well. For 25 years before that, I was in I.T., and one of my responsibilities was maintaining uninterruptible power supplies. Those use sealed lead acid batteries. They also had an expected life of only 3 years. Have you done any studies on expected battery life and replacement costs, as well as charging? Will the charger be included in the price or purchased separately? How long is the recharge time? Will it last all day out in the field or require a battery swap mid-day? etc... just some more things to think about.

Single sealed lead acid battery to run it for 7-10 miles with a 250 pound payload is maybe 100 bucks. Does 3 years of life out of it sound so bad?

 

[MossRoad]

This is what I'm used to thinking when thinking about commercial harvests...

Lettuce... hand picked directly to packing.
How Lettuce Gets Harvested - YouTube

Pickles and cucumbers are all mechanical up here in Michigan similar to this.
The Best Maid Pickle Farm - YouTube

Tomatoes are almost all mechanical here. Pretty much every commercial tomato in Indiana goes to Red Gold.
THIS VIDEO IS GREAT!!! MUD EVERYWHERE! They pick directly to the semi trailers. This happens every fall here.
Red Gold Tomato Harvest 216 Muddy Indiana - YouTube

Raspberries are all mechanical now, too...
Washington Red Raspberry Harvest - YouTube

Here's humans picking strawberries... but they're picking directly into packing cartons in the field. AND THEY ARE RUNNING WITH THEIR BOXES!
Strawberries - Harvesting - YouTube

This is probably my favorite... advance to 1:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPP6INGU1AI

Apples, peaches, pears, plums are picked by hand, but in quantities large than the auto cart can handle.
Peaches by hand, and directly into pallet boxes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiI5nF7feNg

Pears by hand, and directly into pallets. Good video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFTRnvYiNYE

Bell pepper picked by hand. At 2:09 the crates show up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG-82ArDkxc

So what I'm saying is this...

Around here, produce is grown for:
1. Small, as in home grown for personal consumption or sold in roadside stands. You won't pick enough to justify the cost of an auto cart.
2. U-Pick operations... your customers provide their own labor.
3. Commercial harvest.... and everyone knows that's go big or go home. Every year there are fewer and fewer small farms as they consolidate and automate, or contract out to large corps, supermarkets, etc... for example, most of the grapes grown here go to Welch's. Most of the tomatoes go to Red Gold, etc...
4. Greenhouse year-round operations. These are becoming more popular for tomatoes sold in grocery stores. This one, in particular, in Coldwater, Michigan shows how its done. This is the future of growing for grocery stores... a perfect, repeatable, product...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNBRfHZ7t-8

 

[candersen10]

You're counting on it being able to keep up with the human picker. Most pickers I've seen in commercial settings pick really, really fast because they get payed by how much they pick in a day. How will this machine be able to account for who picked which bin? Now you're adding coding to bins and an accounting system to keep track.

We've been assuming each picker would have their own Burro, and that they would be no more than perhaps 500 feel from a collection point such that the time from picker to collection point would be no more than 5 minutes or so. Each Burro could also have a weight sensor to record how much each picker picked.

Does that address any concerns? Valuable at all?

 

[MossRoad]

Single sealed lead acid battery to run it for 7-10 miles with a 250 pound payload is maybe 100 bucks. Does 3 years of life out of it sound so bad?

No, that sounds good. But I don't think a $100 battery is going to stand up to the loads you are wanting to accomplish day in and day out. Do some load testing on it to make sure it will last as long as you need it to last.

 

[MossRoad]

We've been assuming each picker would have their own Burro, and that they would be no more than perhaps 500 feel from a collection point such that the time from picker to collection point would be no more than 5 minutes or so. Each Burro could also have a weight sensor to record how much each picker picked.

Does that address any concerns? Valuable at all?

The humans get piece work rates. The autocart actually ads to the cost of the harvest.

 

[candersen10]

You're counting on it being able to keep up with the human picker. Most pickers I've seen in commercial settings pick really, really fast because they get payed by how much they pick in a day. How will this machine be able to account for who picked which bin? Now you're adding coding to bins and an accounting system to keep track.

This is what I'm used to thinking when thinking about commercial harvests...

Lettuce... hand picked directly to packing.
How Lettuce Gets Harvested - YouTube

Pickles and cucumbers are all mechanical up here in Michigan similar to this.
The Best Maid Pickle Farm - YouTube

Tomatoes are almost all mechanical here. Pretty much every commercial tomato in Indiana goes to Red Gold.
THIS VIDEO IS GREAT!!! MUD EVERYWHERE! They pick directly to the semi trailers. This happens every fall here.
Red Gold Tomato Harvest 216 Muddy Indiana - YouTube

Raspberries are all mechanical now, too...
Washington Red Raspberry Harvest - YouTube

Here's humans picking strawberries... but they're picking directly into packing cartons in the field. AND THEY ARE RUNNING WITH THEIR BOXES!
Strawberries - Harvesting - YouTube

This is probably my favorite... advance to 1:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPP6INGU1AI

Apples, peaches, pears, plums are picked by hand, but in quantities large than the auto cart can handle.
Peaches by hand, and directly into pallet boxes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiI5nF7feNg

Pears by hand, and directly into pallets. Good video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFTRnvYiNYE

Bell pepper picked by hand. At 2:09 the crates show up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG-82ArDkxc

So what I'm saying is this...

Around here, produce is grown for:
1. Small, as in home grown for personal consumption or sold in roadside stands. You won't pick enough to justify the cost of an auto cart.
2. U-Pick operations... your customers provide their own labor.
3. Commercial harvest.... and everyone knows that's go big or go home. Every year there are fewer and fewer small farms as they consolidate and automate, or contract out to large corps, supermarkets, etc... for example, most of the grapes grown here go to Welch's. Most of the tomatoes go to Red Gold, etc...
4. Greenhouse year-round operations. These are becoming more popular for tomatoes sold in grocery stores. This one, in particular, in Coldwater, Michigan shows how its done. This is the future of growing for grocery stores... a perfect, repeatable, product...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNBRfHZ7t-8

Moss road, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Super useful. I will reply in more detail tomorrow.

What about green onions, fresh market tomatoes, t-bar grapes, and other non mechanical harvested things? Is anyone harvesting those mechanically?

The other thing; re capacity. If something has 100% utiltization and runs back and forth constantly rather ban sitting for a bit and then being utilized for a small portion for time, could that create any value? You go with 1000 pound bins in apples because you want to minimize the cost of an operator moving the stuff back and forth. But what if the operator has no cost because he/she is a smaller robot running 100% of the time?

 

[MossRoad]

Moss road, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Super useful. I will reply in more detail tomorrow.

What about green onions, fresh market tomatoes, t-bar grapes, and other non mechanical harvested things? Is anyone harvesting those mechanically?

The other thing; re capacity. If something has 100% utiltization and runs back and forth constantly rather ban sitting for a bit and then being utilized for a small portion for time, could that create any value? You go with 1000 pound bins in apples because you want to minimize the cost of an operator moving the stuff back and forth. But what if the operator has no cost because he/she is a smaller robot running 100% of the time?

I don't know. I was thinking a bit more and maybe it should be marketed to the picker, not the grower? Can it enable the picker to pick more in a given time? Since they're paid by how much they pick, they pick pretty darn fast. Will this device help them pick any faster?

Take that link with the pepper pickers, for example. The grower says he gets 25-35 thousand pounds of peppers per acre over three picks. Each pick lasts about 2 weeks. So lets go for 30,000# in three picks. That's 10,000# per pick. Three times a season. The pickers get paid by how many containers they fill, not by how fast they fill them. So if it takes them a week to pick 10,000# or it takes them two weeks to pick 10,000#, they still get the same amount of money at the end of the pick. There's no incentive to the farmer to have them pick faster, but there's incentive to the picker to pick faster, as they'll have more time to pick elsewhere, or free time.

Maybe there's more incentive to the smaller farmer that doesn't pay anyone else to harvest the crop, but harvests it himself? But that small is usually frugal. So, again, a tractor would be more useful. Any machine that isn't moving isn't making money. I don't see this machine moving all the time. A tractor is more useful for more tasks.

And again, I go back to the question of once the user sends it back to the drop point, how does it find its way back to the user that's moved while the machine is making its round trip? How does it know how much further down the row the picker has moved?

 

[Industrial Toys]

If that thing could follow me around on a hot day with a cooler of cold beer, you might be on to something.

It would have to learn to get out of my way in a hurry though.

My 48 volt E-Gator gives me pretty much a day of farting around. Beyond that, you had better be near the charger.

 

[daugen]

IT, you got it. A following beer ice chest for Bubba. Optional mini keg setup.
Always have it close at hand. No issue of cost when it comes to a man's beer...
and when you get so sloshed you can't find home, you can hit the home button and it will drag you back to
your front door.
Bubba's Big Bin
Found only at Walmart

ok ok, probably not the highest and best use of high tech

I'm planting a nut orchard this weekend, mostly pecans. but nut trees probably aren't the best application either.
No one hand picks nuts any more

 

[two_bit_score]

The cart can take many bins. The laborer leaves one empty, and when the last one remains empty, removes it from the cart and picks into it while the cart goes back to be emptied.

I just don't see it working in actual practice like you describe. Good theory but not likely to work.


TBS

 

[joefromga]

Watermelons are hand picked.
Need something to follow you with bluetooth perimeter sensing. GPS included for location. You'd need obstacle sensitivity as well to not run into stuff.