Grading Tractor and HD Box Blade vs. a small Dozer?

[fried1765]

I started out renting a John Deere 450G dozer on my land and quickly realized it was too small for what I wanted to do. It couldn't break through the hard packed, dry red clay, and when pushing a full blade of dirt, it would quickly become too much and spin its tracks or kill the engine. It was great at shaping and spreading loose dirt. I bought a bigger Case dozer similar in size to a D6 at 170 hp. It does everything I want a dozer to do. It's also a never ending project of fixing things. I could never afford to rent one to do everything I want to do, or hire it out, so wrenching on it is how I save money. Hoses go all the time, cylinders fail one at a time until you've rebuilt every one of them. Then I think they start the process all over again. Branches are your worse enemy. Never run over them, they will catch on the tracks and then get through your belly pans and break something. I had a small, green pine branch bust off the oil sensor on the side of my engine block that created quite the mess of oil spraying through the engine covers!!!

Buying means that you have it there 24/7 and you can use it for as long as you want, or just let it sit until it's needed. Never expect it to work right away, there will always be something to fix on it. Renting means killing yourself to get the most out of it while you have it. Usually it will run perfectly while you have it, but hoses break, things happen, so even renting brand new, don't be surprised if you break down.

As to your original question, I personally hated my box blade. I never became proficient at it and found it to be extremely frustrating to smooth anything out with it. I tried digging ditches along my trails with it, but I just created a mess. I tried using the back blade for filling trenches when running water lines, but found it painful twisting in my seat going backwards all the time. After sitting around in my yard for ten years, I gave it to a friend who is now experiencing the same issues I had with it.

My personal favorite way to smooth out a road or a pad is to back drag with the front bucket on my loader. I have the best control that way, and my results are always good. The dozer is great for filling trenches, or spreading dirt, or digging the pond. It doesn't move dirt very far, but for short distances, it's good. Hopefully this year I will level off about an acre to create a parking area close to my pond, build up a pad for an event center and shape a two lane road to get there. I'm also clearing trees for my fence line and it looks like a war zone with all the craters left from digging them out. I'll reshape the side of the hill with the dozer and use that dirt to fill in where the holes from the stumps.

The one thing that I find that most people don't understand is how much running a dozer beats you up. The first hour is fun, but then it turns into work, and after you've been on it all day, your beat up. Both mentally and physically. My brain feels numb, and my body is exhausted. If you break down, you are doing the repairs right where you stopped. Most of the time it's on uneven ground, or in a location that's not ideal. I've had to cut down trees and haul off debris to get to where the problem was. I've had to use my backhoe to dig a pit so I could get under the dozer, and I've resorted to digging with a small, garden hand shovel to get to where I needed to be.

Whatever you do, NEVER GET STUCK in the mud with a dozer!!!!!

Hope this helps,
Eddie

The lesson here is obvious: Unless you are a ********* DO NOT buy a dozer!

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I love running a dozer. I would buy.
My dad bought a small 1010 crawler, with a blade we could only angle manually. Yes, it broke down, but we made so much with it, it was worth it. He finally sold it several yrs ago, for more than he paid for it.

 

[Oldoak]

Just proves how true the old axiom is "To each, their own".

Years back I purchased a well worn J.D. 350B crawler loader. I thoroughly enjoyed working with it but found it too small to be efficient for my intended use. Also it quickly became a money pit when the reverser and final drives needed work.

I then sold it for less than I had paid for it. I probably paid too much to begin with. Like was suggested by others, I should have hired a professional to at least get his advice while still realizing there are no guarantees.

Would I like to have another crawler? I certainly would. But my lesson was learned. Not for me. I am older and wiser now and also being older, no longer have the strength to be my own mechanic on heavy equipment such as crawlers. Although I am still open to renting one should the need arise.

Oh well, that's my story.

 

[Deere Dude]

Just proves how true the old axiom is "To each, their own".
Like was suggested by others, I should have hired a professional to at least get his advice while still realizing there are no guarantees.

If you could even get an owner operator or a good mechanic to run it for an hour putting it through the paces, I think that would be a big help locating hidden issues.

 

[TerryR]

When I was growing up in California in the 1950's my Dad ran IH TD-40's, which were already obsolete. Everyone there used track engines for tillage to avoid compacting the heavy clay soil, and I suppose there weren't good rubber-tired options then. The 40's were cheap, and just small enough to be hauled on our flat-bed farm trucks. Dad was known to buy two - one with a busted final drive housing and another that had put a connecting rod through the block and pan, and put the pieces together.

He kept our top farm hands employed most winters rebuilding one of them -- final drive, transmission, engine, even the fuel injector pump -- in our farm shop. They ran well when kept up, but you needed to tools and expertise to do it. Our local IH dealer (my Mom's uncle) hated that he had to keep parts for them in stock, but he did.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I have mixed feelings on this one. I read through your intended uses several times. Each time I came to the same conclusion. I would rent a rubber tracked bobcat to do what you want to do. If you need to buy something then buy a bobcat but I would leave the crawler alone unless you like to work slow and have your body shook to pieces at the end of each day.

That machine has looked like it's been parked for while. Usually there is a reason for that.

I've run both and they each have pro's and con's but in the end a good bobcat operator will run circles around a small cat in terms of the amount of work that gets done at the end of the day. The cat will undoubtedly push more but the maneuverability of the bobcat wins the day.

 

[Surreal001]

I have mixed feelings on this one. I read through your intended uses several times. Each time I came to the same conclusion. I would rent a rubber tracked bobcat to do what you want to do. If you need to buy something then buy a bobcat but I would leave the crawler alone unless you like to work slow and have your body shook to pieces at the end of each day.

That machine has looked like it's been parked for while. Usually there is a reason for that.

I've run both and they each have pro's and con's but in the end a good bobcat operator will run circles around a small cat in terms of the amount of work that gets done at the end of the day. The cat will undoubtedly push more but the maneuverability of the bobcat wins the day.

This is good advice. While I too dream of owning a dozer, a tracked skid steer is a better option in the long run, and gives you more toy options as well. Also, a skid steer can be hauled by pick up and trailer. That dozer is going to require some major hauling equipment to get home!

 

[jenkinsph]

My first dozer was a Deere 450 used and well worn. It was easy to buy but I had to work on it constantly. My next dozer was a brand new Deere 850 it was easy to operate and ran very well but it was hard to pay for. Just my experience.

I find old tractors a lot easier to work on and a lot more dependable than old dozers.

 

[sd455dan]

The lesson here is obvious: Unless you are a ********* DO NOT buy a dozer!

Well I wouldn't go that far...

- Having a JD 550 has been great, - a little grease, adjust track tension , oil,filter changes.

That's been about it- and when moving dirt, pushing over trees, or digging stumps out- it has been very helpful.

No machine is perfect but if you check it out carefully and buy at a good price, there are more than a few of us that got a Whole lot of work done and can still get our money out of a dozer if the need arises- but It is nice having it when you need it.

I agree about how your body feels at the end of a long day on a dozer- even the bones hurt:laughing:

If I was the OP a mini EX would be on the radar , imo just more versatile and still have many of the attributes of a dozer if you can find one of similar weight with a blade...but more $$
as far as skid steers go I sold mine... but each their own

 

[Rustyiron]

You just need to be careful purchasing, but it will always be a....

 

[jdtractor]

Have to agree with sd455dan.. I've been around dozers all my life .. owned several big and small. They cost money to run steel on steel but the work produced is what u bought it for . You have to keep ur head out of ur butt and no what to look for and what to do when needed..a dozer is like having a pocket on ur shirt ... handy when it's there. I would stay away from skid steers ... they r overrated for heavy work and u will I say will and can ruin or break rubber tracks . I've seen it happen more then once.. plus rubber is no good in muddy hillside work. If ur on fairly level ground ok but again u got to pay attention. I'm not trying to start trouble but I've got more hrs operating iron then I care to admit.. from pipeline to road work plus farming. A small dozer is nice if you can afford it .. I like mine and wouldn't be with out 1 for my farm. Just my .02cts

 

[pmsmechanic]

Have to agree with sd455dan.. I've been around dozers all my life .. owned several big and small. They cost money to run steel on steel but the work produced is what u bought it for . You have to keep ur head out of ur butt and no what to look for and what to do when needed..a dozer is like having a pocket on ur shirt ... handy when it's there. I would stay away from skid steers ... they r overrated for heavy work and u will I say will and can ruin or break rubber tracks . I've seen it happen more then once.. plus rubber is no good in muddy hillside work. If ur on fairly level ground ok but again u got to pay attention. I'm not trying to start trouble but I've got more hrs operating iron then I care to admit.. from pipeline to road work plus farming. A small dozer is nice if you can afford it .. I like mine and wouldn't be with out 1 for my farm. Just my .02cts

I'm kind of with you on this. That's why I said I had mixed feelings.

I agree that a dozer can do more but if you look at what the op wants to do then I think a dozer is over kill. My reason for suggesting a bobcat is that at least when your done with it you can use it for other things. A dozer would probably end up sitting in the bushes again. I also believe that a bobcat is an easier sell once the job is done.

As you and others have mentioned, you need to know what to look for so that you don't end up with expensive repairs.

My 0.02 cts. Have a great day all

 

[Piston]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I need to apologize in advance for responding individually, as I'm on my phone so it's the only way I know how.
I have a 14 hour flight so what better to do than catch up on TBN

I should clarify that I'm not actually on the hunt for a dozer. I wasn't dozer shopping and looking for a D3 specifically, but I was enjoying a bit of bourbon and wine with this fellow in his barn, and we were chatting about equipment. I told him how I have a strange attraction to heavy equipment and love playing in the dirt. He brought me
out back to show me this dozer he is going to sell. I didn't ask too many questions as I wasn't prepared to look at it and didn't know what to ask.

So rather than finding this specific D3 while I was shopping around, it sort of fell into my lap, and really got me thinking.

I'm glad to hear that there would be a considerable difference between this and my tractor and box blade setup.

I'll try to answer a few of your questions and give a little more info if I can.

 

[Piston]

Dozer, hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Day and night comparison. If the D3 is sound with good undercarriage, reasonable price "to you" which is all that matters, go for it. Won't take you an hour to learn the controls, longer to learn all that you can do with it.

So now that I understand that even a small dozer would be considerably more effective than a box blade, I need to come up with an answer to the statement you made regarding a "reasonable price".

I've read plenty of threads on here and enough to know that none of you can give me a solid estimate of the real value of this thing based on the limited info I can provide.
However, is there a general "range" that you could guesstimate regarding what would be considered "too much" as well as a "good deal"?
If I could purchase this for cheap enough I will do it. And, I would consider "cheap enough" to be a price I could pay, and be reasonably confident that I could sell it for the same price I paid years down the road. (I don't think I'd actually sell it, but just as a frame of reference)

So any wild guesses on what this could be worth?

 

[moriboy]

I'm in the camp that says if you want a dozer, get one! Yes they can be a maintenance headache but if you are like me you won't mind. Out of all my equipment, the dozer is my favorite to operate. Go for it.

 

[Piston]

At almost 9000 hours of use, I would expect that the undercarriage should have been rebuilt once or twice and maybe even the tracks replaced. The tracks look good as do the drive wheel cogs. I would look closely at the idlers and carriers to see if any are frozen up from setting so long as it appears to have been setting for a while.
Check out the engine, I am sure it will use a bit of oil and likely smoke a little with blue smoke with that many hours unless it has had a really gently life. A little oil consumption wouldn't stop me from buying as long as the undercarriage, clutches and brakes were good.

As far as which will be best, a dozer with 6 way blade is about as good as it gets and D3 is about the smallest dozer made for commercial use I think, but still a very capable machine. I used a D6 to level some spoil banks from a drainage ditch that was dug with a drag line back when I was about 18 and I still remember the thrill of operating that machine and the dirt that it would move.

Thanks Gary,
Your post brings up some more questions for me to ask, and some more things to look for. I was glad to see that it did have the 6 way blade, it seems like it would be a lot more handy to use than a 4 way. Too bad it doesn't have a winch on it though.
I'll find out more about the undercarriage, and what was replaced and when.

 

[Piston]

From the pics, the undercarriage looks to have lots of life remaining.
Sprockets and tracks good.
Generally hydraulics are maintainable at modest costs in that seals hose consist of mostly your expense., that is if the pump is in decent shape but that is relatively easy to verify.
One very costly area to venture in is transmission and final drives so you want to verify that closely.
I always suggest having a qualified heavy equipment mechanic with you for a more qualified opinion.
His 1-2 hr fee will be your best investment.

I'm showing my ignorance here, but when you say the hydraulic pump is relatively easy to verify, how do you check that it's in good/bad shape?
Sort of along those lines, does Anyone know what the flow and pressure of this pump should be?

 

[Piston]

Rent. Use your box blade to clean up the mess the Dozer makes. You will insulate yourself from risk.

Although I'm not "against" renting, I don't think I would, only because I do have enough equipment to do what I need to at this point, so it's not really a case of needing this, it's more a case of will I just use what I have, or pick this hunk of junk up for cheap money and take my chances.

I've also never been one of those people who avoid risk at all costs. I understand that some people do, I'm just not one of them. I don't mind taking chances like these.

 

[moriboy]

Regarding the hydraulic pump, unless you notice weird noise, leaks, or slow performance, the pump is probably fine. The current owner should be able to give you the good and bad about the D3.

 

[DieselBound]

Regarding the hydraulic pump, unless you notice weird noise, leaks, or slow performance, the pump is probably fine. The current owner should be able to give you the good and bad about the D3.

And if you can lift the front of the dozer using the blade. I believe that, just like a tractor, the blade is usually capable of going below grade, which means on-grade you should be able to have it pushdown and lift the front of the dozer- if it can do "pushups" then it's fit