Takata airbags

[Streetcar]

I'd expect it is well known, but worth repeating.... as far back as the late 60's, the SAE was warning about fatalities with short drivers, even with properly functioning airbag systems.

Rgds, D.

What cars had airbags in the 60's?

 

[ultrarunner]

I remember seeing a 1973 Olds Tornado with air bag... I think it was advertised as the first available to the public.

Later Chrysler really got on the bandwagon in the 80's for the entire fleet???

 

[3930dave]

What cars had airbags in the 60's?

When they were developed in the 60's, the engineers did the math, and realized that short (at least short of arm) drivers were at risk due to proximity to the steering wheel. Those results were documented in SAE reports of the day.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Another story is the owner left the car at Toyota and said to call when it was safe to drive... the warranty is extended for the time out of service on warranty claims... this really has the potential to snowball...

I hadn't thought of that aspect..... If I ended up with a loaner vehicle, I'd have a place to park a Toyota in my driveway, but plenty of people don't.

Parking spaces for condos in many cities cost a fortune, so many people in that situation have nowhere to park a second vehicle.

Rgds, D.

 

[fried1765]

I hadn't thought of that aspect..... If I ended up with a loaner vehicle, I'd have a place to park a Toyota in my driveway, but plenty of people don't.

Parking spaces for condos in many cities cost a fortune, so many people in that situation have nowhere to park a second vehicle.

Rgds, D.

Why not require the dealer to keep it parked at his dealership?
Tell him you want it parked inside at night too!

 

[3930dave]

Why not require the dealer to keep it parked at his dealership?
Tell him you want it parked inside at night too!

ur's comment about the church lady + ____________ had me thinking of this..... sounded like that person just said "Keep it till it's fixed".

Rgds, D.

 

[chriswheeler]

Got the last one changed out last week. Two vehicles, and had to do limited use for more than a year and a half waiting for these to be changed out. Dealer averaged out 6-8 months to get parts in stock to perform the recalls. Sure wasn't the dealers fault, parts just weren't available. Sure hope we are done with this.
Chris

 

[fried1765]

Got the last one changed out last week. Two vehicles, and had to do limited use for more than a year and a half waiting for these to be changed out. Dealer averaged out 6-8 months to get parts in stock to perform the recalls. Sure wasn't the dealers fault, parts just weren't available. Sure hope we are done with this.
Chris

I RECEIVED MY COROLLA/TAKATA RECALL NOTICE 11 MONTHS AGO.
Car has been stored for the winter, so the problem was dormant.
Car is now back in use, and at my request, tomorrow, Toyota begins furnishing me a rental (Thrifty).
Having providing me with a written warning, I realized that Toyota would be covered in the event of an injury or death.
What I had not thought about, was that if I allowed anyone to use that seat in my car, I would be guilty of "culpable negligence".
I can easily see how MY insurance company might deny a passenger injury claim, since I deliberately ignored the Toyota warning to not use that seat.
This will be interesting!
With a free rental, I really don't care when they fix it now!

 

[3930dave]

With a free rental, I really don't care when they fix it now!

I think it would be productive if more people insisted on getting a long-term rental.

Pain or No Pain choices can be educational..... if the financial losses associated with this mess are massive enough, then maybe the CFOs running these corporations will think twice in the future...... OK, maybe I'm being overly optimistic......

I'm sure that you are glad to have that behind you now Chris ! :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.

 

[chriswheeler]

I guess I do feel better now that all are replaced. But that doesn't change the fact that I had to place 2 vehicles into a very limited service that I paid about $75,000 to acquire. Total limited service time = over a year and a half for both. Service life usually = 10 years or so with us. Not being in full service for more than a year and a half sure made the value received ( or depreciated the value ) in this service life to a much lower useful service life. Don't think I'll ever feel good about that, that equals a loss of value received on the purchase price much less in my book.
Chris

 

[fried1765]

I guess I do feel better now that all are replaced. But that doesn't change the fact that I had to place 2 vehicles into a very limited service that I paid about $75,000 to acquire. Total limited service time = over a year and a half for both. Service life usually = 10 years or so with us. Not being in full service for more than a year and a half sure made the value received ( or depreciated the value ) in this service life to a much lower useful service life. Don't think I'll ever feel good about that, that equals a loss of value received on the purchase price much less in my book.
Chris

I used my Corolla all last summer, and ignored the Toyota/Takata warning.
Obviously, I should not have done that.
The car was stored from early November until just this week.
I now am using a Thrifty rental, provided by Toyota, at $35 per day.
Cost to Toyota for the month of May alone will be $1085.
Toyota dealership states that a Takata fix COULD be available sometime in June.
I don't care when they fix it now!
I love my(?) new 2017 Nissan Sentra .....backup camera and all!

 

[3930dave]

Significant loss of use is quantifiable directly in $. People should have been compensated for loss of use.

If I was given a loaner vehicle gratis, I'd happily put miles on somebody else's vehicle - I'd be in no rush to return it.

Rgds, D.

 

[chriswheeler]

And that takes us back to my first post. The government fining Takata millions does nothing for the consumer, sure we get the bag inflators replaced, but that's it. If the government wanted to do the right thing here, they would split that fine received among the consumers who had the defect on a per airbag inflator basis for loss of use during the long winded replacement time period, or the risks taken by some waiting for the replacement inflators. By the time a lawyer gets ahold of this and turns it into a class action suite, any wins in court go directly into the lawyers pockets in legal fees and we, the consumers still loose when they send us a $5 check for our share of the settlement. We loose both ways.
Chris

 

[GolfAddict]

And that takes us back to my first post. The government fining Takata millions does nothing for the consumer, sure we get the bag inflators replaced, but that's it. If the government wanted to do the right thing here, they would split that fine received among the consumers who had the defect on a per airbag inflator basis for loss of use during the long winded replacement time period, or the risks taken by some waiting for the replacement inflators. By the time a lawyer gets ahold of this and turns it into a class action suite, any wins in court go directly into the lawyers pockets in legal fees and we, the consumers still loose when they send us a $5 check for our share of the settlement. We loose both ways.
Chris

Maybe I misunderstood some of the earlier posts, but I thought I read that Toyota would provide a replacement loaner until the bags were replaced. If that's true, then they are mitigating any loss of use issues. Of course it's up to you to take advantage of that, like fried1765 did.

 

[3930dave]

Maybe I misunderstood some of the earlier posts, but I thought I read that Toyota would provide a replacement loaner until the bags were replaced. If that's true, then they are mitigating any loss of use issues. Of course it's up to you to take advantage of that, like fried1765 did.

Chris may not have any Toyotas. He references a Jeep, but may own other brands too.

Many different brands have been affected, this list has some:

Takata Airbag Recall: A list of cars - NY Daily News

Not all vehicle brands may offer a free loaner, or perhaps they just make the offer less obvious than Toyota ?

Rgds, D.

 

[chriswheeler]

One is a 2009 Dodge diesel 3/4" ton 4X4. Dodge surely wasn't going to loan you one of these $50,000 trucks and put miles on it while you were waiting for air bag replacement. The other is a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4X4, lower cost vehicle, but same problem. My hat is off to Toyota for doing the right thing, don't think many others even considered loaners.
Chris

 

[fried1765]

One is a 2009 Dodge diesel 3/4" ton 4X4. Dodge surely wasn't going to loan you one of these $50,000 trucks and put miles on it while you were waiting for air bag replacement. The other is a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4X4, lower cost vehicle, but same problem. My hat is off to Toyota for doing the right thing, don't think many others even considered loaners.
Chris

No need for your "hat off" to Toyota!
They are covering their Axx for potential lawsuits.
They have told all Takata airbag owners that it is not safe to carry a passenger in that seat.
If you DO carry a passenger in that seat, ...... YOU are then guilty of "willful negligence".
If your passenger is injured or killed, I would be willing to bet that YOUR insurance company will NOT COVER YOU for "willful negligence"!
You were warned (in writing), and you DELIBERATELY chose to ignore the warning!
Do you REALLY think that Toyota did "the right thing",...... or was there an ulterior motive?

 

[3930dave]

No need for your "hat off" to Toyota!
They are covering their Axx for potential lawsuits.
They have told all Takata airbag owners that it is not safe to carry a passenger in that seat.
If you DO carry a passenger in that seat, ...... YOU are then guilty of "willful negligence".
If your passenger is injured or killed, I would be willing to bet that YOUR insurance company will NOT COVER YOU for "willful negligence"!
You were warned (in writing), and you DELIBERATELY chose to ignore the warning!
Do you REALLY think that Toyota did "the right thing",...... or was there an ulterior motive?

On the legal side of things, I'm curious - are these notices sent out by Registered Mail - ie. can the car manufacturer prove that you actually received the notice ?

I'd say that the minimum a vehicle manufacturer has to do is inform the vehicle owner of the fault/recall, and demonstrate "reasonable" effort to change out the part in a timely fashion once they become available from Takata etc. < Those steps would probably keep their Legal Dept happy, on their own.

I'm not aware of legal precedent that requires a vehicle manufacturer to supply free replacement loaners.... so IMO, any manufacturer that provides that free service voluntarily is going out of their way to compensate their customers for inconvenience..... I know it would certainly impress me from a service standpoint, and would seriously increase their chances of having me as a repeat customer.

Companies spend billions every year on media advertising; why not spend some money on loaner vehicles in this type of situation ?

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

There are certain consumer protection statutes that extend warranty for the time a vehicle is out of service due to a manufacturing defect...

If the defect is significant and cannot be remedied in a timely fashion the lemon law allows the consumer to request a buy back.

 

[fried1765]

On the legal side of things, I'm curious - are these notices sent out by Registered Mail - ie. can the car manufacturer prove that you actually received the notice ?

I'd say that the minimum a vehicle manufacturer has to do is inform the vehicle owner of the fault/recall, and demonstrate "reasonable" effort to change out the part in a timely fashion once they become available from Takata etc. < Those steps would probably keep their Legal Dept happy, on their own.

I'm not aware of legal precedent that requires a vehicle manufacturer to supply free replacement loaners.... so IMO, any manufacturer that provides that free service voluntarily is going out of their way to compensate their customers for inconvenience..... I know it would certainly impress me from a service standpoint, and would seriously increase their chances of having me as a repeat customer.

Companies spend billions every year on media advertising; why not spend some money on loaner vehicles in this type of situation ?

Rgds, D.

Perhaps not in Canada, but in the US, registered mail is primarily for shipping high dollar value items.
Certified mail is for documents that must have assured delivery.

I agree that there may not be a requirement that a vehicle manufacturer supply free replacement loaners.
In my, case, requirement or not, I would have rented a car on my own, and filed a case in small claims court against Toyota.
In small claims court the defendant must appear, or the claimant automatically wins.
Is a Toyota representative actually going to be there? Maybe an attorney, but that is going to be an additional expense/nuisance for Toyota.

I do not think it matters if the recall was sent via certified mail. Once you go to the dealership, and inquire about the recall, you are on record as being aware of the recall.
You are kidding yourself, if you think that Toyota is doing this out of consumer benevolence!
Toyota is covering it's Axx !!!!