Dirt Moving Cub Cadet 8454 Buy It?

[CANMAR]

I was close to buying a very used skid steer for $10K.I am now thinking a 45HP tractor with loader 1600lb lift would do the job and would be getting allot more for the money?Both weigh around 5500lbs.
That's why I am looking at a 2006 Cub Cadet 8454 with 640 loader for $13K,it is in good condition with 500hrs.
The very used skid steer's have 2000-4000hrs in this price range.Does anyone think this tractor would do dirt work like a skid steer?

 

[teg]

"dirt work" is pretty vague... Is it commercial dirt work? Or occasionally? IS it moving mountains or leveling out flat spots? I like the tractor since it can do so much more... That seems like a good price for the hours and hp size.

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for your reply teg,sorry I did not explain what I would need it for.I am planning on demo and grading for a new garage for my house,also one or two landscaping projects a year on properties I buy and sell.
With the small tractor I have now I seem to use it mostly for loading heavy items in a truck or on a trailer,I would be replacing it with the 45HP.
My sister bought a new Cub Cadet 7305 for mowing,it is a great machine.I know why now,my small tractor now is a Mitsubishi MT2001D.I have never owned a Kioti tractor like the CC8454.
Would the Cub Cadet 8454SS work well for me for moving 10-20 yards of fill on a project and grading work for concrete like a skid steer?

 

[teg]

Skid steer are fast and powerful and would do the work you need done much faster but the 45 hp tractor can easily do the work. Adding a tooth bar (or teeth on the bucket) and hydraulic Top-N-Tilt for a box blade would be the ticket. Plus if you have a property that needs mowing, the tractor would shine.

ONLY thing I don't like about it, I would prefer HST (hydrostatic) drive. Much easier for tight spaces and less work (shifting) to get the job done. The skid steer would work better with this. Only thing I don't like about skid steers are how they tear the ground up.

I would make sure that you will not need the small tractor before replacing it... they are fine to sit around for awhile.

 

[CADplans]

Why would you consider a tractor that has been out of production for 6 years?
Where will you get parts? Dirt work is abusive to tractor parts,,, you will need parts.

Let someone else own that tractor,, get a tractor that has local dealer support,,
and,,,, GET A HST,,, :thumbsup:

 

[CANMAR]

I do not do grading and landscaping every day and I agree a skid steer would get things done allot faster.I did not think about the tractor being gear drive compared to a skid steer,a tractor would be slower.It would not matter to me much how long a project takes, I am not bidding where I would make more money by getting a project done faster.
Did you mean to tilt the top of a box blade with a hydraulic top link?I have used box blades for grading and they work well for me only when I get it to sit at the correct angle when it lowers to grade level.Is that what the top link cylinder would do?

 

[teg]

Yes, hydraulic top link will change the angle of the box blade from cutting into the dirt to smoothing out the dirt in seconds without getting off the tractor. A real time saver to get it at the angle you want... much easier and faster.

Easy if the tractor has rear remotes, a bit expensive to add those remotes if it doesn't already have them (but worth it).

 

[CANMAR]

I agree a HST tractor would be better for tractor with a loader .My only experience with dealerships is they are more concerned with keeping their grip on availability of parts to keep the prices high and finding ways to reject warranty work.
I found that almost all parts for the Cub Cadet tractors are available on the internet and reasonably priced,I have not tried the Kioti dealer's yet.
I am working on a New Holland 5' 3 point tiller,New Holland wants $150 for a flange that connects to the output of the gear reduction box,and $550 for the other flange connecting to the shaft going to the tiller chain case.I had to make my own flanges,they are just a short piece of 1-3/4" pipe welded to a flat piece of steel with holes to bolt them together.
So if I buy something that is "supported" by a dealership eventually I will have to make my own parts anyway?

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for the suggestion,getting the correct angle must be the trick to getting the most out of a box blade.The Cub Cadet 8454SS has a rear remote with a control for it to the right of the seat.

 

[airbiscuit]

I pretty much agree agree with all the comments so far, which means I am conflicted. I have owned a skid steer and I currently own a 40hp shuttle with a loader. For dirt work, landscaping, concrete prep, the skid steer wins hands down. The maneuverability, being able to see the front edge of the bucket, the compact size, hydro makes the skid steer about 4 times faster with a better result.

That said, I sold my skid steer to buy a CUT. I wanted it for loader work, mowing trails, snow removal, and driveway maintenance. For those tasks, it beats the skid steer. I have been very pleased with my decision, and although I had a 33hp Hydro, I don't mind the shuttle on my 40 hp.

I would suggest you make up your own pros & cons list.

My list would include ...

Skid steer:
Best for dirt working - may cost more-have higher hours. More difficult to maintain and repair. Less versatile for other tasks.

Cub Cadet - less good for dirt work, but more versatile for other tasks. Good price for a 45 hp tractor with loader. Easier to maintain, but kind of an orphan tractor - Cub Cadet CUTs no longer in production. May be hard to get parts and affect resale value.

If it was a 45 hp John Deere, Kioti, Kubota or New Holland for that price, I'd say get the CUT. I'm conflicted about the Cub Cadet. I might keep looking.

Make up your own pros and cons list and see if it speaks to you.

PS: If you're doing a lot of loader work with a CUT, I second the motion about having a tooth bucket. It's like having more free hp and traction, and I actually like how you can use it for backblading (especially if sod/roots are mixed in the dirt)

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for all the good info airbiscuit,I should have explained better that the Cub Cadet 8354SS 8404SS and 8454SS are really Kioti DK35 DK40 and DK45 painted yellow and white,without optional HST.
I bet being able to see the front edge of the bucket is everything when it comes to grading.And if just moving dirt or fill all day or for even an hour,the the CUT would not compare to a skid steer.That is why they were probably invented,here in Minnesota?
It seems like I use a CUT with a loader all year for loading heavy items into trucks or onto trailers,and only move dirt or fill for a couple weeks or so a year.I thought I would be buzzing around instead loading trucks with a skid steer until I thought about it.When I use a CUT to load things,I will chain or strap them to the bucket to lift them and have to stop and get off the tractor to unchain while the loader is up and sitting on the deck of a truck bed or trailer.
From what I hear getting out the front of a running skid steer to unchain something from the bucket is asking to crush a bone or two?
I have been reading old post's of people buying Cub Cadet's or Kioti DK45's from five years ago,back then they were only paying 13K,with 500 or less hrs.I also read of someone buying a new Cub Cadet 8354 in 2005 with loader for 15k.Used prices have not gone down even though the tractors are 5 yrs older?Maybe prices on new 45HP CUT have gone up so much in the last 5 years is the reason?
I am thinking of going ahead and buying the Cub Cadet 8454SS loader tractor this week.Use it to get the few landscaping and grading projects done that I do and mostly use it for loading trucks and other fun tractor stuff.

 

[teg]

....Maybe prices on new 45HP CUT have gone up so much in the last 5 years is the reason?

I am thinking of going ahead and buying the Cub Cadet 8454SS loader tractor this week....

You are correct about prices have gone up... Also, I don't think that Cub Cadet would last a week without being sold down here!

 

[fidowanttobe]

I wouldn't be afraid of the Cub because of the tranny.
I do not have HST and "Ignorance is Bliss". Do I wish I did? Dunno. Would I trade 10 year old, 750 HR tractor off for one? Absolutely not. Loader work I agree, it would be nice. Everything else? Meh. I look at it like an automatic tranny pickup. When it breaks, it goes to their shop and it's gonna be expensive. If/when my clutch goes out, it's going to MY shop and $300ish.
So for me, the convenience is not worth the extra cost for purchase or repairs.

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for your reply fidowanttobe,I have had just two HSD tractors,I do like them,they would be great for doing loader work and grading.But I have never had the HSD go out,I think that would be very spendy and put a bad taste in my mouth.
To me when you are pulling allot of weight or in a real tight spot or trying to get un-stuck a gear tractor works better.I have heard that with Shutle Shift you can use the foot throttle and shuttle between forward and reverse,makes it almost as fast as HST.
Actually I talked to the dealership today and this Cub Cadet 8454SS needed a new clutch a year ago with less than 500hrs on it.The tractor was used mainly with a brush hog mower so maybe that had something to do with it?
I wrote a check for it and now just waiting for the check to clear before bringing it home.

 

[airbiscuit]

Thanks for all the good info airbiscuit,...
I bet being able to see the front edge of the bucket is everything when it comes to grading.And if just moving dirt or fill all day or for even an hour,the the CUT would not compare to a skid steer.That is why they were probably invented,here in Minnesota?

The first "skidsteer" was actually a 3 wheel loader (with a 6.5 hp engine) designed to clean manure out of a 2 story turkey barn! A few iterations later it became a 4 wheel skidsteer.

Congratulations on your tractor. You will like the power and weight, and those Kioti underpinnings. Post pics of it in action.

 

[teg]

Congrats on the tractor... don't forget the photos when you get her home

There has been a HST problem or two on TBN but not many. Yes they are expensive when you need to fix them but were they maintained correctly??? who knows... they are "protected" with a pressure bypass valve. So, unless you don't maintain them, they protect themselves... at least that is my understanding.

All I know is that I've worked with both and I can work a longer day (easier) without having to push the clutch in so much. The older I get the more I like it... Your mileage may vary.

{second thoughts, I do hate to have to rev. the rpms so high to "work" a hst - I hate the whine noise - Love the sound of old tractors running a low rpms, but again it comes down to how much work I can get done}

 

[airbiscuit]

{second thoughts, I do hate to have to rev. the rpms so high to "work" a hst - I hate the whine noise - Love the sound of old tractors running a low rpms, but again it comes down to how much work I can get done}

Kind of like listening to the sound of a Harley :cheerful:

 

[CANMAR]

I finally got it home,it is a beast!

 

[teg]

...I finally got it home,it is a beast!

It looks unstoppable... on your first post you talked about "...2006 Cub Cadet 8454 with 640 loader for $13K..." Is that one of the new Camouflage loaders?

 

[oldpilgrim]

Where's the loader?