Backhoe JD 5205 Power Beyond Model 48 Backhoe

[SmallTexasFarmer]

A fool and his money are soon parted. Welp, I did not know enough to learn what I was getting into. I purchased a Model 48 backhoe to use on my JD 5205. I now have the backhoe mounted thanks to a new $1,100 sub-frame bracket. Now I need to figure out how to get hydraulic power to the backhoe. The dealer says another $2,500 in parts (Power Beyond) and $1,500 in labor. Frankly this is out of my budget. Are there any alternative solutions for less than $1,000?

 

[texasranger556]

A fool and his money are soon parted. Welp, I did not know enough to learn what I was getting into. I purchased a Model 48 backhoe to use on my JD 5205. I now have the backhoe mounted thanks to a new $1,100 sub-frame bracket. Now I need to figure out how to get hydraulic power to the backhoe. The dealer says another $2,500 in parts (Power Beyond) and $1,500 in labor. Frankly this is out of my budget. Are there any alternative solutions for less than $1,000?

Apparently the kit is no longer available from Deere, so either your dealer already has one or they are going to break into the hydraulics without a kit. Some discussion on the same topic:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/276331-jd-5205-power-beyond-kit.html

The 48 hoe on my 4400 only has two hoses, but there are three connections on the back on the tractor. Power beyond port, reservoir port, and 3 point supply hose. With the hoe off, the 3 point hose hooks to the power beyond port. The reservoir port has a dust cap. When mounting the backhoe, you get close enough then shut off the tractor and disconnect the 3 point hose from the power beyond and install a dust cover on the hose. The backhoe supply gets connected to the power beyond port, and the backhoe return hooks to the reservoir port.

Does your tractor have the factory joystick for the loader? Deere sells a power beyond plate for the dual SCV, but the dual SCV might be an option, it is hard to tell from the parts diagrams.

In any case, it's certainly possible to supply your backhoe. Just a matter of finding a way to intercept the oil feeding the 3 point

 

[Quebecguy]

A fool and his money are soon parted.

You can't be that much of a fool if you managed to attach your 48 backhoe to your 5205 tractor without any hydraulics connected to the hoe. The first few times I attached my 48 backhoe to my 5205 tractor it took quite a lot of jiggling of the various hydraulic controls. Now that I'm more used to it I can do the job in just a few minutes but still with lots of jiggling. I'm sorry I can't help you with your hydraulic set-up, I ordered the Power Beyond option when I bought the tractor (and hoe).

 

[SmallTexasFarmer]

Does your tractor have the factory joystick for the loader? Deere sells a power beyond plate for the dual SCV, but the dual SCV might be an option, it is hard to tell from the parts diagrams.

It sounds like the same setup - there are 2 hydraulic hoses with female connectors on the 48 and there are 2 female hydraulic connectors on the 5205. The 2 connectors on the 5205 have a control lever that I identify as the draft control (?). I assumed that the 2 female connectors on the 5205 are a supply and a return (those little icons sure helped. It makes sense that a third supply port would be able to supply power to the 48.



The 5205 FEL is factory installed and I am assuming the joystick is OEM. There are 4 hydraulic connectors at the mid-point of the 5205



However, I do not know and certainly do not understand the plumbing necessities or the part requirements. My greatest concern is that there may be some pressure relief necessities built into the Power Beyond that will save me burning up a hydraulic pump that I am unaware of. I just can't believe that adding a supply connection is as simple as splicing into an existing hydraulic line.

Ebay has a bunch of parts but I am leery of displaying my ignorance a second time without trying to learn what is really needed?

Thank you for the reply

 

[JD5210]

2 suggestions.

1) You may want to get the tech manual. Explains the difference between a Service Control Valve (SCV) and Power Beyond. Go to selectmanuals.com it is only $29.95.

2) Go to JD parts (URL supplied) and look up Power Beyond. Looks like you have mid mount for loader and a third SCV for something else in the back. Maybe someone knows how the third SCV can be put in a float always open mode. I am not saying this will work, but is worth checking. You may need a float detent in the third SCV.

Hope this helps.

What are those 2 hoses in the first picture? The one with the duck tape. I would say to the right of the seat you have 3 levers. 1. Raises and lowers the 3 PT. 2. Draft control. 3. For the third SCV.

John Deere - Parts Catalog

Here is a link to the operators manual if you do not have one.
http://manuals.deere.com/omview/OMRE72817_19/?tM=FR

 

[texasranger556]

The first pic looks like the backhoe side.

 

[texasranger556]

Looks like you have the mid mount joystick plus a single SCV, often referred to as a single set of rear remotes. Agree with JD5210 on explanation of levers.

Can you get a look at item number 24 on from the following diagram on your tractor?

John Deere Parts Catalog

It appears to have 2 or 3 plugs threaded into it. If it was in my shop I'd pull that plate off and see how the oil flows through it. It likely has provisions to divert oil out to your backhoe but may require inserting a plug internally. It may or may not be covered in the tractor tech manual.

 

[larboc]

You're way overthinking this. I see two reasonable options:

1) Connect the loader to the quick connects next to the PTO shaft at the back of the tractor in your second pic (blue and red caps) then use a bungee cord to hold the control lever when using the backhoe.

2) For under $300 you can put a stand alone PTO pump on the shaft that will give you double the GPM of your tractor. May have to add an auxiliary reservoir if the backhoe doesn't have one. Sometimes they do.
Dynamic Hydraulic Tractor PTO Pump GP-PTO-A-9-6-S 21.2 GPM @ 54 RPM 9-892-9 | eBay

 

[texasranger556]

You're way overthinking this. I see two reasonable options:

1) Connect the loader to the quick connects next to the PTO shaft at the back of the tractor in your second pic (blue and red caps) then use a bungee cord to hold the control lever when using the backhoe.

2) For under $300 you can put a stand alone PTO pump on the shaft that will give you double the GPM of your tractor. May have to add an auxiliary reservoir if the backhoe doesn't have one. Sometimes they do.
Dynamic Hydraulic Tractor PTO Pump GP-PTO-A-9-6-S 21.2 GPM @ 54 RPM 9-892-9 | eBay

I agree option 1 is viable if a bungee cord doesn't bother you. However option 2 screwing around with a PTO pump and adding a reservoir would be a pain IMO.

 

[cabover4us]

A fool and his money are soon parted. Welp, I did not know enough to learn what I was getting into. I purchased a Model 48 backhoe to use on my JD 5205. I now have the backhoe mounted thanks to a new $1,100 sub-frame bracket. Now I need to figure out how to get hydraulic power to the backhoe. The dealer says another $2,500 in parts (Power Beyond) and $1,500 in labor. Frankly this is out of my budget. Are there any alternative solutions for less than $1,000?

My brother in law had the same problem with his 855, no kit available anymore, but all the pieces were still available individually, 1\3 more expensive but at least he was successful.

 

[larboc]

I agree option 1 is viable if a bungee cord doesn't bother you. However option 2 screwing around with a PTO pump and adding a reservoir would be a pain IMO.

It's a fairly common way to setup a backhoe attachment on a CUT actually since they typically have lower flow hydraulics compared to what a backhoe can use. To attach you just slide the pump on the pto shaft and clip on a chain to keep it from spinning. No hoses to hook up. Once you get it plumbed and a reservoir added it's just as fast as connecting power beyond lines.

The extra flow capacity of the PTO pump would be well worth it over spending money on power beyond IMHO. I hate using a slow backhoe.

 

[texasranger556]

I know it is common, I just think it's a pain. His tractor is rated at 10.9 GPM which is 30% more that my 4400 running the same hoe. Granted he could run half engine RPMs with a 20 GPM PTO pump to achieve the hydraulic flow. Horsepower isn't the problem.

You'd have to add a pump, hoses, a filter assembly and reservoir, plus another 10 gallons of oil so not exactly cheap. If the hoe sits outside when not in use you run the risk of getting water in the reservoir. The backhoe does have a relief built in, so wouldn't need that.

While I agree the dealer quote way high, you can typically tap in to the tractor hydraulics for a few hundred dollars in materials. Might not look factory but it would be just as functional. Or just plug into the rear remotes and put a bungee on the lever. Cheapest and easiest by far!

 

[Mechanos]

My brother in law had the same problem with his 855, no kit available anymore, but all the pieces were still available individually, 1\3 more expensive but at least he was successful.

That's odd. I put the power beyond on my 955 a few year ago and the kit was still available. However, I found that it was less expensive to buy all the individual pieces that it was to buy the kit. I guess dealer prices vary.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

When I bought my 3320 CAB it had an after market back hoe installed. It was powered from the 3rd rear SCV held open with a bungee cord. I opted to have the JD Power beyond kit installed by the dealer along with a few other things. From the bill it looks like the kit was about $400. The kit mainly consists of a bracket to hold in place, quick connect couplers, a heavy hose and metal tubes with fittings to connect to the tractor hydraulic system.

The following comments are made without going to take a closer look at my tractor and knowing nothing about a 5205, but if you purchased a kit that is available say for a 3x20 or 4x20 series or maybe even a current model, perhaps it would not be that difficult to modify / fabricate the bracket to fit your 5205 and have a custom set of tubes or hoses made to connect into the tractor hydraulic system.

 

[SmallTexasFarmer]

2 suggestions.

1) You may want to get the tech manual. Explains the difference between a Service Control Valve (SCV) and Power Beyond. Go to selectmanuals.com it is only $29.95.

2) Go to JD parts (URL supplied) and look up Power Beyond. Looks like you have mid mount for loader and a third SCV for something else in the back. Maybe someone knows how the third SCV can be put in a float always open mode. I am not saying this will work, but is worth checking. You may need a float detent in the third SCV.

What are those 2 hoses in the first picture? The one with the duck tape. I would say to the right of the seat you have 3 levers. 1. Raises and lowers the 3 PT. 2. Draft control. 3. For the third SCV.

I own the Operators Manual and I will buy the Tech Manual in a few minutes.

The backhoe operator faces 2 levers used to control the dipper stick and the bucket with additional 2 levers for controlling each stabilizer leg

The 2 hoses in the first picture are attached to the backhoe. However, I need to check and re-check if my backhoe has 2 or 3 hydraulic lines - as I was re-reading the posts I started to wonder if I had correctly stated that there were only 2 hoses - I keep thinking there are 3 hoses - I'll need to check. The duck tape was on the 48 when I bought it - maybe some identifier for supply and return - just guessing.

 

[SmallTexasFarmer]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

From my Dealer, I have heard horror stories about burning up hydraulic pumps using a bungee cord - have no idea if this is a myth or reality.

I would sure like to know if anyone has any direct experience using a bungee cord to hold the valve open?

 

[SmallTexasFarmer]

Floor jack, sweat and some ungodly words were responsible for getting that $%*& sub-frame lined up and backing the tractor up. As best I can tell, it worked and I still have all my fingers but I'd rather use the hydraulics - the Man upstairs was being generous and I thank Him for suffering my language.

 

[JD5210]

A friend has a Long tractor, which has only 1 SCV and holds it open with the bungee cord. Then runs a line over to operate his loader. It has been this way since he purchased it used 20 years ago and he has had no problems.

I am going to say your tractor has an open center system, so it will be important to insure the backhoe is this way as well.

 

[Quebecguy]

I need to check and re-check if my backhoe has 2 or 3 hydraulic lines - as I was re-reading the posts I started to wonder if I had correctly stated that there were only 2 hoses - I keep thinking there are 3 hoses.

My 48 backhoe is set up to have just two hoses connected to the tractor but I notice in the Installation Instructions there is a mention of three hoses.
1. Backhoe Sump Return Hose
2. Tractor Pressure Hose
3. Backhoe Pressure Return Hose.
On my set-up there is no Number 3.

 

[SmallTexasFarmer]

Thank you to all who have responded. I truly appreciate it

My 48 backhoe is set up to have just two hoses connected to the tractor but I notice in the Installation Instructions there is a mention of three hoses.
1. Backhoe Sump Return Hose
2. Tractor Pressure Hose
3. Backhoe Pressure Return Hose.
On my set-up there is no Number 3.

In attempting to bring myself up to speed, I found a page that explains some things and has pictures (pictures are great) but I do not have the foundation to understand some of the presented information. The page is at:

Selective control valves (SCVs)

For example, this may not be what I need to understand for my task of connecting my backhoe, but I have no idea what a rockshaft valve is - as mentioned in:

5005 Series tractors can be equipped with as many as four economical and versatile spool-type selective controls valves. Up to two rear and two mid SCVs can be factory or field installed. For additional versatility, a power beyond kit can be adapted to the SCV and rockshaft valve to supply live hydraulic power to hydraulic motors and implements.

My tractor has a single selective control lever to the right side of the operator. However, the statement about "positions" displays my lack of knowledge - what is a "detented float position?" Does float position have anything to do with my being able to use those couplings on my backhoe? Or, is my belief correct that "float" has to do with plow/blade depth control and not an open live hydraulic power flow? The paragraph states:

Single and dual selective control valves are available. Each valve features extend, retract, neutral and float positions. The single SCV features a detented float position. The dual SCV features a detented float position on the #1 valve and regenerative position on the #2 valve.

I have re-checked and can now confirm that there are 3 hoses on my backhoe. The 3 couplers on those hoses are:

Pioneer Female Coupler 4050-15 3/4-16 ORB
Pioneer Male Hydraulic Coupler 8010-15 3/4-16 ORB
Faster HNV 38 12 SAE EFJ 06NO with "Made in Italy" (I am guessing this is metric as the male Pioneer coupler will not even fit into it.)

In attempting to understand how these 3 hoses connect and function? I want to Thank Quebecguy for his help.

I've searched for pictures of a Power Beyond installed - the pictures I have found seem to indicate that the Power Beyond when it is not connected to the backhoe is in a loop back into the hydraulic system (can someone confirm if I am right):


I found a different picture that seems to confirm:


And then I found an explanation and picture

The PB (orange) is plumbed into the DSCV block which is located behind the joystick. The lines run to the top back where a bracket mounts above the 3 point. And a return line (teal) runs to the side of the hydraulic fluid fill. The dark blue is the 3rd function.

Since the Power Beyond Kit is not available - I wonder if the individual parts might be? Comments?

Can anyone make a recommendation of finding the kit RE73308 or sourcing the individual parts?

Lastly, in the interest of a solution, I am wondering if it is possible to purchase longer hydraulic hose extensions to go from the backhoe to the mid-mount hydraulic connections that are used by the front-end loader? However, I am uncertain about where to connect that 3rd hose - the mid-mount shows 2 pair of couplings (I assume 1 pair for boom up and down and the other pair for bucket "open and close." But a connection for 3rd hose remains a mystery.)