Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

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   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #281  
Then fast forward ten years and it turns out that making diesel engines that don't pollute or require expensive and sensitive emissions control equipment is not so easy. It can be done but not cheaply. It also turns out that air pollution standards of ten years ago are not adequate to protect the urban/metro population from toxic effects of diesel emissions so the future will require even cleaner exhaust. It may be that hydrogen fuel cells never make a serious comeback but it is also clear that diesel has had its day in light vehicle propulsion. Look for the next ten years to be an exploration of various combinations of electric and hybrid power for passenger vehicles. Diesel will surely survive for heavy equipment and trucks but it looks increasing like the auto industry has simply given up on diesel as the motor of the future. It may have happened anyway because of the difficulties involved in getting clean exhaust from diesels but the VW fiasco put the nails in the coffin.
I don't believe the standards keeping diesel out of the car market are really putting people at risk. I believe those standards are in place to insure diesel never beats out hybrids, and curtails the big electric agenda. There are no toxic risks or effects. In an ironic twist most if not all the milage gains in gas automobiles in last 17 years have come from the high pressure direct injection diesel technology developed by VW and Bosch in the original VW TDi's.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #282  
Have to wonder how the green weenies who couldn't change out a battery in a car are so certain that pollution free wind and solar power is possible for the entire world . And the news media, politicians and general public believe their happy feel good dreams. Yet engineers and accountants who deal with the real world instead of feelings , they understand the limitations and cost of "free clean" green energy.

Yes it is clear, knowledge encumbrement definetly must hinder the deductive thought processes.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #283  
I don't believe the standards keeping diesel out of the car market are really putting people at risk. I believe those standards are in place to insure diesel never beats out hybrids, and curtails the big electric agenda. There are no toxic risks or effects.

I should have realized there would be a conspiracy in there somewhere.

The EPA standards have very little to do with passenger cars as they were developed long before light duty diesels became popular after VW introduced their "clean diesel" in ?2009. Before that there was relatively little interest in diesel and only MB, VW and a few others really made a go of it for a limited market. Europe went diesel crazy over the past 20 years to the extent that they passed laws that penalized gas engines so if there is a conspiracy here it was pro diesel.

And, diesel emissions of NOx and soot absolutely have bad effects on health. Lots of scientific/epidemiologic data on that point. WHO (conspiracy I know, I know) estimates hundreds of thousands of deaths per year worldwide related to soot and NOx from passenger vehicles. Not an issue in wide open spaces like rural TX but a serious issue in metropolitan areas.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #284  
Yes it is clear, knowledge encumbrement definetly must hinder the deductive thought processes.

Imagine how much simpler life must be when you have the knowledge and anyone who disagrees with you is stupid, deluded, or lying. In some ways I envy that unconditional certainty.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #285  
Best wishes, good intentions and opinion regarding the world, people and the environment still do not change the laws of physics. The Star Trek series of Technological Utopia is not a documentary sent back from the future but is instead science fiction.
The greenies need to set the example and quit using any products manufactured from, manufactured with by or transported via petroleum and coal.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #286  
............ The greenies need to set the example and quit using any products manufactured from, manufactured with by or transported via petroleum and coal.
I would define this as a troll more than any interest in the topic as defined by the opening post.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #287  
Even if we had the most technically advanced, longest ranged electric vehicle available we would still need an ICE powered vehicle to back it up.

An automobile is a tool. Tools have a purpose. An electric auto would be the perfect tool for somebody who lives in a large urban area and seldom travels more that 30-40 miles per day. I would love to have one for running the 6 miles to the grocery and hardware stores. The Bolt would make it on one of our Saturday trips to F-I-L's home (15 mile), youngest daughter's home (15 more miles), oldest daughter's home (20 more miles), Mom's home (20 more miles). Then back home to charge overnight.

BUT!

Get home and get a phone call that F-I-L has fallen and needs to be taken to nearest medical center and we must go to his home and pick up clothes, etc. and then drive 130+ miles to Nashville and we would be nearly out of juice. As I said above, even if we had the most technically advanced, longest ranged electric vehicle available we would still need an ICE powered vehicle to back it up.

RSKY
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #288  
Best wishes, good intentions and opinion regarding the world, people and the environment still do not change the laws of physics. The Star Trek series of Technological Utopia is not a documentary sent back from the future but is instead science fiction.
The greenies need to set the example and quit using any products manufactured from, manufactured with by or transported via petroleum and coal.

That's a lot of gibberish with a few political dog whistles thrown in. You should be able to do better if you have a rational basis for your contrarian opinion.

Nobody is taking Star Trek technology. Electric hybrids on the road today are more fuel efficient than any ICE in light passenger vehicles. Check out the mpg and range ratings. A Honda Accord Hybrid will take you over 700 miles on a tank of gas. And, it will pollute less than any other ICE on the road. Nothing pie in the sky about that. Reality. Today.

Nobody says we should stop pumping oil. Trucks, tractors, generators etc will need that fuel for a long time. And, there are far better things to do with a barrel of oil than to burn it in an inefficient ICE. Plastics, lubricants etc etc are all better uses of oil.

Come down from your podium and talk data if you disagree.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.
  • Thread Starter
#289  
Come on guys. What I intended when I started this thread was exploration of a topic I know nothing about. Most of the posts here have rationally pointed out advantages and disadvantages of EVs and hybrids. I and I hope others, have learned from this discussion, particularly from present owners.

But some seem to see this topic as a podium to stir up the culture wars. Continual name-calling doesn't teach or persuade anyone. An emphatic denial that EV's should ever exist based on one's own unique circumstances - even to the degree of warning me "Oh, we understand, be careful though, you'll end up in a dumpster someday" after I posted that Volvo is accelerating its changeover to 100% EV's - does more harm to the denialists than it persuades. That isn't sharing information, I'm not sure how to interpret it beyond recognizing a possibly dangerous loon among us. Rational people don't make threats.

It's not Star Trek futurism that is going on in China right now, the government there recognized the problem of crushing air pollution and the potential of new motor vehicles to make things even worse, so China is undergoing a massive conversion to producing mostly EVs right now. Our energy costs and pollution issues aren't so critical, we don't need to follow their example. But it is interesting to see how this is working out in various parts of the world, and for the 'early adopters' here.

I personally have learned what I initially set out to study. The Bolt, while admirable, wouldn't be a good match for my application. An off-lease Ford C-Max hybrid would be less expensive initially and there would be less dollars depreciation over a similar lifetime in my use. But neither is an improvement on what I drive today in cost or convenience so I'm not in a hurry to do anything. I remain interested in learning what others have concluded from studying or owning EV's and hybrids.

Peace, everybody.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #290  
I would define this as a troll more than any interest in the topic as defined by the opening post.
I think it's just a sarcastic way of saying there not going to be any battery breakthroughs. It's a very well understood chemistry and technology, deal with it.... Wanting something to be true doesn't make it true.
 
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