Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[IslandTractor]

Meanwhile back at the ranch ...

I bought a hanging patio chair for my wife. On the way home I stopped to look at a Bolt again and compare its cargo space to my Subaru.

Bolt cargo space. Note the anchor (bronze color) that the folding seatback locks to.

View attachment 509958

For comparison: Subaru Outback. (version 1, thru '99). Note how much more cargo space there is measured from its folding seat anchor, back to its tailgate. Enough space to load this bulky chair entirely behind that point.

View attachment 509959

When I was looking to replace my old Outback (same as yours), the hybrid I thought was most equivalent in cargo space was definitely the Prius V. I looked for a used one for six months without finding what I wanted. Apparently the folks who get them new don't lease and hang on to them more than a few years. I was reading about the Prius V when I became aware of the CMax in a comparison review. What impressed the reviewers was that for all the Prius's strengths, it wasn't fun to drive. The CMax was so I decided to look. Turns out the CMax has about ?40 extra HP so is quite zippy and the interior is a German Ford so a lot nicer than typical base Toyota. What really sold me though was that Ford had aggressively leased the CMax when it came out to compete with Toyota and the market was flooded with low mileage 2-3 year old CMax preowned cars. I bought the top of the line fully loaded Energi model with leather, nav, backup cam, panorama moonroof etc etc and paid about 40% of MSRP for a 2 year old car with 20K miles on it. It was cheaper than a high mileage barebones Prius V. However, I did not get the cargo capacity of the Prius V. For my uses it wasn't a big deal as I also have a Honda Element. I believe the Chevy Volts are also available for big discounts off lease and while they have less cabin and cargo space they have also proved to be reliable and very efficient.

 

[Egon]

What pollution ? The greenies like to show images of 1970's vintage coal power plant stacks, vehicles, equipment, industrial sites etc for shock value. Or from 3rd world countries today who undercut western production costs by having no regard for the environment. The greenies had to invent CO2 as a threat after vehicle CO, HC and NOX levels were dropped to nil.
Greenies still need to scare donations from middle aged middle class women who are afraid for the future of their grandchildren. Those greenie working lunches, offices, hotel rooms, wages and jet setting around the world all cost $$$.
Being green has become a cult, religion or a badge of honour to wear to obtain worth and acceptance. Being actually concerned about pollution has dropped to 2nd last place. Otherwise the greenies would not be using thermal generated power or anything that has had any source or association with petroleum . Nor would they ever use fire.
If anyone wants to talk environmentalism , they should not expect to be taken serious while being hypocrites .

Ahh them Greenies!!
The cause of the World's problems.

Now if the Brown's all stopped buying products manufactured by undesirable environmental practices all those products produced would stop being produced as there is no market. Raises Hobb with Brownie wealth accumulation. Greenies don't have enough income to effect the market. They are too busy being Greenies to be able to devote assets to wealth accumulation.

There is a little more to the pollution of the environment than just the end devices.

 

[houstonscott]

Hate to say it but my electric/hybrid can travel further on a tank of gas and full battery than your diesel sedan can. I don't need to wait. The doubling of range is only relevant to the battery powered portion of the range. The car seamlessly switches from battery to ICE so I could travel over 500 miles without stopping if I wore diapers. For practical purposes the electric hybrids are two cars in one. Electric for around town (20-40 miles) and then hybrid for longer distances. And, we'll see double that range in similar sized vehicles in just 10 years, not 20. How long did it take engineers to squeeze 100hp/l out of a diesel? Over a hundred years I believe.

Yeah, your GPS is a calendar.

 

[vvanders]

The higher the rate of charge, the shorter the battery life. The super charger etc is a quick boost of 1/4 to 1/3 of the battery capacity until the battery heats up due to I2R losses while charging. After the 1/3 or so charge the rate reduces down to just a L2 rate which will take a couple of hours then tapersdown to L1 rate for the last 20% of charge.

Nope, wrong.

Don't try and go breaking out Ohm's Law on me, now you're in *my* industry . Battery life is affected by *temperature* not charge rate and Tesla has a massive cooling system on the Model S(see my previous comment about louvers on the front of the car). It'll favor battery temperature over charging speed every time(although I've never seen less than 120kW in WA).

You're also way off on the charge rates. Supercharging keeps above L2 charging until about 90% of the pack(which you'd leave at anyway since 60% is enough to make the next supercharger) and L1 only happens at 97%(I know since I range charge on my Seattle trips).



Here's a random graph I grabbed from a 90kW user. The low graph is probably when he was at a full charger and sharing(in that case you don't quite get the full 120kW), however you can clearly see that it never drops below L2 rates.

Also I've been supercharging about once a week and have yet to see degradation related to it. It's a hot topic on the Tesla forums that people have researched extensively and found no evidence of degradation.

 

[houstonscott]

Read your own post. "What pollution?" you ask and then talk about "3rd world countries" that have "no regard for the environment". Do you realize that US companies polluted just as much before the EPA was created to set air pollution standards. Do you not understand that the only reason we don't have the gross air pollution of the 1970's is because we have become progressively "greener" in the past 50 years. Electric vehicle propulsion is just the next step in a continuing effort to keep air clean as population densities increase and more people consume resources. Green is about being efficient, it isn't a religion.

That's where your wrong. Your exhaling is now pollution. We solved pollution. My new ride, and number one horse. No little piece of crap for me. When you absolutely positively have to get there... I watched ► 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser 200 - KING SUV - ► 216 Toyota Land Cruiser 2 - KING SUV - YouTube using Video Tube. This is some serious technology here. Just so you know what your asking people to give up and move down, way down too, in a little stupid electric car. Air pollution as a reason is a non starter.

 

[IslandTractor]

That's where your wrong. Your exhaling is now pollution. We solved pollution. My new ride, and number one horse. No little piece of crap for me. When you absolutely positively have to get there... I watched ► 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser 200 - KING SUV - ► 216 Toyota Land Cruiser 2 - KING SUV - YouTube using Video Tube. This is some serious technology here. Just so you know what your asking people to give up and move down, way down too, in a little stupid electric car. Air pollution as a reason is a non starter.

Yeah, those are used primarily to drive kids to school and to go to the country club in this country. I've actually never seen a man drive one. Mostly soccer moms. Never seen one off road. Who would risk scratching up a $80,000 SUV in the outback or rock crawling? Of course the Landcruiser is legendary and overseas a stripped down version is useful though not as popular as the Toyota pickup trucks for really tough going. How do you like the 13mpg?

 

[houstonscott]

Yeah, those are used primarily to drive kids to school and to go to the country club in this country. I've actually never seen a man drive one. Mostly soccer moms. Never seen one off road. Who would risk scratching up a $80,000 SUV in the outback or rock crawling? Of course the Landcruiser is legendary and overseas a stripped down version is useful though not as popular as the Toyota pickup trucks for really tough going. How do you like the 13mpg?

Getting about 18mpg combined, above that on long highway cruising, your indoctrination is showing, assuming 13. Funny how you dismissed soccer moms as sub people. Also funny you used the word outback, where the majority of the 200 Land Cruiser are sold. Your blanket statement about stripped down and pickups for really tough going is ignorant, you simply don't know what you are talking about. I'll bet you've never seen a 200 Land Cruiser. Where I live the the guys drive the trucks and off road stuff, the girls drive hybrids. Guess that's Boston where the men are women and drive the hybrids.

 

[IslandTractor]

Getting about 18mpg combined, above that on long highway cruising, your indoctrination is showing, assuming 13. Funny how you dismissed soccer moms as sub people. Also funny you used the word outback, where the majority of the 200 Land Cruiser are sold. Your blanket statement about stripped down and pickups for really tough going is ignorant, you simply don't know what you are talking about. I'll bet you've never seen a 200 Land Cruiser. Where I live the the guys drive the trucks and off road stuff, the girls drive hybrids. Guess that's Boston where the men are women and drive the hybrids.

I believe you are talking about the J200 Land Cruiser which has been around since 2008. Rated 13 in city, 18 on highway. Seriously, they are a soccer mom SUV here on the east coast along with Range Rovers and Escalades. No one in their right mind would take one off road because they are too valuable to beat up. The Mercedes G wagon is a step up the ladder and just as unlikely to go off road and also much more likely to have a female suburban driver around here.

And yes, I've spent quality time overseas in both J200 and J70 Land Cruisers in situations where a breakdown would have been more than just inconvenient. Very reliable but expensive (even without all the Gucci stuff that comes on the USA model) so they have been largely supplanted by Crew Cab Toyota "Tacoma size" pickup trucks. Nissan Patrol is also a tough non lux utility vehicle.

 

[jmc]

Sorry about your thread, California.

 

[IslandTractor]

Sorry about your thread, California.

It will get back to electrics soon enough. Land Cruisers are toys and clearly not a significant part of future transportation.