South west PA and steep hills with a SCUT?

[Rock Crawler]

@RockCrawler-
That's a thorough spread sheet and nice of you to post so others can find and compare models quickly. I promise I'm not a shill for Yanmar, but, for completeness and because others seem to like them, did you consider them? I think they are running a free loader program at the moment so might be price competitive.

Re: Kioti- they are not new to the party. They've been around quite a while and I think you'll find lots of satisfied Kioti customers here. They don't have the wide-spread reputation of Kubota or Deere but if they are in the second tier in quality (that's a big if) they are certainly in the first tier for value.

Done. I have added the Yanmar unit to the list. I do not have a price offering as of the moment, but by looking at the facts and figures you'll see that the Yanmar unit does not shine brightly above it's peers. There may other aesthetic details that must be considered that could or would move any of these units up or down, my collection of data assumes that you are blind to pre-conceived notions, color, shape, style... and are buying strictly on those things that can be weighed and measured. I still see the Kioti and Max as the 2 shining stars of the grouping.

 

[Rock Crawler]

I would like to note, I could not find verification of the differential lock feature on all listed units. I would hope and suspect that such a helpful and handy feature would be standardized and equipped on every listed unit. The ones I found proof of, or that I personally sat on and saw the feature indicate it as YES. The blank ones may or may not have that feature, I just have not been able to confirm one way or another.

 

[woolyAcres]

Done. I have added the Yanmar unit to the list. I do not have a price offering as of the moment, but by looking at the facts and figures you'll see that the Yanmar unit does not shine brightly above it's peers.

I agree. Nothing in the Yanmar column separates if from the others. A spreadsheet like this is the easiest way to see that. I think you can get pricing via their 'Tractor Configurator'. And if I recall, the diff-lock is available, but I'm not sure it's standard. Is the pricing you've marked (when available) from manufacturers websites or is it from dealer interaction? To put it another way is that MSRP or what it actually would cost you, in which case the configurator is probably mis-leading?

Speaking of things you can measure and weigh, I'm curious. Do you have a sense of how you'll fold price into this? (Lift capacity + digging depth * HP)/price to come up with a single metric for the winner? I suspect that's not practical which is why it will come down to a few front runners that are worth going to see/use and at which point ergonomics and dealer will enter the equation.

Best of luck. It's a fun process, no?

 

[dodge man]

Just a warning, and you may have taken it into account, but often the specs can't be compared or you have to sort out the data to make sure its a direct comparision. For example, and the numbers are just rough, my Kubota BX has a spec for the loader that says 700 pounds and another that says 500 pounds. The 500 pounds is a certain distance in front of the lift pins, and is probably a realestic weight of what the bucket could lift, while the 700 pounds is at the pins.

 

[plowhog]

I have no idea what the loader lift capacity of my Massey GC1710 is. If its less than others I don't think that is truly the issue as those are just numbers on a page. Real world application is different of course.

I know from experience I have lifted a bucket overfilled with wet heavy dirt with no problem. That's probably the heaviest thing I could imagine lifting, and I couldn't possibly have added more dirt as it was already heaping above the bucket. If it can lift that, why do I need more capacity? It lifted it with ease, not even running full throttle. But the other part of the story is that once I lifted it I had one rear wheel raising off the ground (I was on unlevel terrain.) Yikes.

I think this is the problem with specs and spreadsheets. They tend to draw you into comparisons that might not be realistic during actual work tasks. If my Massey could lift a million pounds it wouldn't matter-- once it has enough lifting force to bring a rear wheel off the ground, that's the point where I am pushing it no further. Triple its lift capacity and I won't use it. In the case with the bucket full of wet dirt, I dumped a little dirt back out for better stability. I later learned the manufacturers match the lift capacity to the bucket size and frame.

I don't mean to rain on your party of shopping for tractors, as it can be very fun to make these comparisons. I'm just suggesting to keep it in perspective. I kind of did the same thing before buying mine. My Massey GC1710 was the first tractor I ever owned, and I had zero hours of tractor experience as of the day of delivery. Before buying, I also focused on things that maybe didn't so much matter. Like a Kubota BX25, which I considered, has only a single center hydraulic cylinder for the front bucket, whereas Massey and others have one hydraulic cylinder on each side. Does that make the BX25 loader less stable? Well a whole bunch of competing sales people seemed to think it might. But in real world application, I don't think the BX owners give it a second thought ...

 

[paulfun9]

I have no idea what the loader lift capacity of my Massey GC1710 is. If its less than others I don't think that is truly the issue as those are just numbers on a page. Real world application is different of course.

I know from experience I have lifted a bucket overfilled with wet heavy dirt with no problem. That's probably the heaviest thing I could imagine lifting, and I couldn't possibly have added more dirt as it was already heaping above the bucket. If it can lift that, why do I need more capacity? It lifted it with ease, not even running full throttle. But the other part of the story is that once I lifted it I had one rear wheel raising off the ground (I was on unlevel terrain.) Yikes.

I think this is the problem with specs and spreadsheets. They tend to draw you into comparisons that might not be realistic during actual work tasks. If my Massey could lift a million pounds it wouldn't matter-- once it has enough lifting force to bring a rear wheel off the ground, that's the point where I am pushing it no further. Triple its lift capacity and I won't use it. In the case with the bucket full of wet dirt, I dumped a little dirt back out for better stability. I later learned the manufacturers match the lift capacity to the bucket size and frame.

I don't mean to rain on your party of shopping for tractors, as it can be very fun to make these comparisons. I'm just suggesting to keep it in perspective. I kind of did the same thing before buying mine. My Massey GC1710 was the first tractor I ever owned, and I had zero hours of tractor experience as of the day of delivery. Before buying, I also focused on things that maybe didn't so much matter. Like a Kubota BX25, which I considered, has only a single center hydraulic cylinder for the front bucket, whereas Massey and others have one hydraulic cylinder on each side. Does that make the BX25 loader less stable? Well a whole bunch of competing sales people seemed to think it might. But in real world application, I don't think the BX owners give it a second thought ...

Don't forget to cross reference those numbers. Like loader lift crossed/compared to overall weight of the tractor. If a massey only lifts x and pops the rear tire up doing it but the kioti has a few hundred more pounds and lifts more proportionately then its still a much better real world machine as long as other factors such as overall size are not effecting the decision.

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings Rock Crawler,

Well, let's see. I own a Massey GC1715. I use turf tires because they give stunning grip on lawn, on snow, as on ice. I have lawn that is not as large as yours but has as steep as yours at least (from your pictures as comparison). And what I sidehill cut is smaller but steeper than what you sidehill cut (again from your pictures).

You started out your thread in a fairly direct manner but now you've gotten swept into crowd thinking in my opinion.
I spent years looking and thinking about SCUT tractors from 2006 till my decision time in May of 2015.

I've never been sorry for my decision. Money was a real concern, but getting the right unit was even more important for my needs.

Let's take some of your early posted ideas. If you want to go "fast" then you should drive an atv because that's what atvs do. Tractors aren't about "fast".

If you want "big is better", then you don't want to cut lawns on slopes and hills, because bigger equipment damages sod and compacts grass. You want to "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee" per Ali. Lol Your pictures are of lawn, not pasteur or field.

Compact tractors like the Yanmar 324 and 424 are very nice equipment including bigger tires and increased ground clearance. But those are also features that don't benefit lawn mowing on steeper ground.

In your early posts you were wrong about SCUT weight being 1400 pounds unless you meant a tractor with no mower deck and no fel and no backhoe and no filled tires. My GC1715 is 1435 pounds plus 235 pounds for mum plus 450 pounds for fel arms plus 155 for the bucket plus 85 pounds per each rear tire for washer fluid (add 30% more for rimguard). Then there is the backhoe.

The GC1715 is made by Iseki in Japan and is 1 or the 3 best engine builders who makes tractors in the world (the others are Yanmar and Kubota). I say this because all three have built diesel engines for 30 years or longer for big name companies. But those 3 names not only build engines, but they design and build the entire tractor in the SCUT line for their respective names . . . all Japan made. The Massey DL95 fel is made in the U.S..

And now for the spreadsheet. You stated early on that our forum isn't "Ford vs chevy" but you're wrong. . . Because you started with 2 and now you have a spreadsheet full lol. But there are 2 things wrong with a spreadsheet

1. There is no columns for Fit and Feel. No columns for "hugging the ground" (and I don't mean ground clearance). No columns for "how does it handle blue grass vs red fescue vs perennial rye". etc. etc..

2. Your numbers aren't correct. The DL95 loader is rated considerably higher in weight. Your numbers are for the DL100 loader. Just a single example. Yanmar listed for the 424 but not the 221 or 324. . . . just a single example.

You quoted some numbers early on for Massey pricing and then talked about potentially "hammering em' down another 2000" lol You clearly didn't understand how good the pricing was to start with.

A tractor is not a "forever" unit anymore than we are. But it is a much different unit than you are used to. A lawn mower bumps into something and you damage the lawn mower. A SCUT bumps into something and you damage "the something".

I didn't invest in a gc1720 because I didn't have enough uses for it to justify the considerable cost. I did buy a non dealer quick attach and a non dealer fork set and a non dealer 3pt. sprayer and soon a non dealer mini grapple etc. etc.. I'll also be adding rear wheel spacers to further enhance my great hill traction and safety. And I'm also designing and making some items.

By the way. . . you can always pay down a Massey approved loan anytime you want.

P. S. "going fast" isn't measured by speed of movement of a tractor, but rather by how quickly the job gets done.

AxleHub

 

[dalola]

I don't think any of the current SCUT/CUT offerings would qualify as problematic. They all have strengths & weaknesses, and are all very capable machines.

This is where the "test drive" comes in. Data on paper is great, but a good test drive will provide greater clarity to your decision. Is it likely you'll me maxing out every aspect of your rig every time you use it? Or is it more important to find a rig that "feels right" from the operator seat?

Given the concept that all the brands make a solid rig, price is only a part of the "value" you should be shopping for. Along with the test drive results, the dealer is a key ingredient to that value. Are they convenient & easy to work with? Been in business for a while? Good local reputation? How about parts? Good parts network also adds value.

In the end, these are the value items you'll pay for; refinement & feel of the rig, dealer relationship, and parts network.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Rock Crawler]

I put in a call to my buddy is a life long farmer... of course his response is buy a green tractor or nothing LOL... That is expected.

So anyways, after talking a bit he said that he has never heard of LS, Branson, Kioti...
and doubts there is a single one in use on a farm within 50 miles of us.

I mentioned Massey and he said he knows and would trust that name, but would not buy because of no dealers...
But then I told him that an hour away and across the line in Ohio is Vernon Del who has been there selling green and blue tractors
for decades is a Massey Ferguson dealer and has been since at least 2013 when another buddy of mine bought a SCUT there.

So he feels I should stay far away from Mahindra, he's only heard negatives on that brand in the farming circles.
He would be afraid of LS/Branson/Kioti because there is no dealerships that are long term dealers of these and any of them can go out of business or swap brands on a whim.

He says going Orange, Green or Blue is your safe bet because even if the business goes out, another will immediately pop back up to replace it. But he feels that if you want to argue past the obvious colors, the red Massey would be his pick since Vernon Del will likely be around for decades longer with the sons running the show....

So that starts putting me back into the red Massey direction. I was really starting to think Mahindra Max 26 (compact, actual cast steel engine to trans to rear axle without a C-Channel yard tractor type of frame) but I don't want to buy a Mahindra and be dealing with the electrical issues I have read about and seen YouTube videos about... It's hard to pull away from it though, it is a **** OF A MACHINE for the price.

So I am going to lay low and let my excitement wane a bit... and try to revisit this entire situation in a couple weeks and re-evaluate the choices. But my suspicion is that a red tractor will be living in my garage at some point here.

 

[AxleHub]

Rock Crawler
Let's assume you are 50 miles away from the dealer. Let's also assume he may be selling and delivering product to others in your general area.

Maybe you could arrange that when they are in the area delivering. . . . they could bring a demo unit on the load so you could test out how it would handle on your land/hills.

Just a thought.