Gate post/fence post

[TractorGuy]

I bought some fence posts from TSC and I think they were 8-9". They were fairly straight and super sturdy. I bored the holes with a 12" auger and tamped dry concrete and dirt around them. I've been told the concrete will absorb moisture from rain and set. They are solid as a rock either way. I hung double 10' gates so they don't have much weight on them.

 

[Stimw]

Ok so cement or just tamped? The first pic are they 6x6? I personally like the look of square. Se likes round. So you know we are going round unless I have a "scientific" argument that square is better.

All the posts are just tamped down as I kept them level.
With the depth I set them I don't think concrete would make a difference.
I always paint a depth line on posts before I set them to make sure I get them deep enough. You can knock dirt in the hole and come up short.

 

[hosspuller]

Every post that has rotted, did so at the soil line. The post above AND below this area was solid and strong. I'm trying a new method. I've wrapped the post at the soil line with black poly. I'll let everyone know in 20 years how effective this is.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Somewhere I had read that round posts are stronger because the grain has not been weakened by cutting or something like that. Horses being horses, I don't like the "sharp" corners.

Do you have any Southern States stores around you? At least in KY, they carry CCA treated posts. I do not know if CCA for ag applications is legal in all states or not? Though there is a plant about an hour north of me, the ones my local store orders in come from VA. The location I shop at will order any size in any quantity if I don't need a whole bundle.

Also, when I make an "H" brace, I don't make a figure eight with my brace wire. I just use a single wire with a tensioner at the upper end. I don't think a single wire resists the pull as well as an looped wire but it's safer for around horses. I also like to use scrap pieces of "Hotcoat" tensile wire for my brace wire. The plastic coating adds another layer of safety.

 

[TheMan419]

Does any one know what preservative retention TSC has in their posts? I cannot find anything on their web site that tells me that. SWMBO is pretty much insisting on round. It looks from the discussion here that there is no real difference between round vs using a 6x6. Of course that assumes the preservative retention of both posts is the same.

I will have to do some digging to find local lumber yards that have round posts. The big box stores (where I can see their inventory on line) do not seem to carry them. We have several lumber yards in town that I am sure will carry them. They just don't have good on line inventory systems.

The GC stuff carried by Home Depot seems to be treated to .40.

 

[oosik]

Its not whether the post is round or square - its the type of treatment the post has received. I'm fortunate - I've been able to get rail road ties. They are heavy to the extreme, very messy to handle but will last 3 or 4 lifetimes, at least. I use them for corners and gate posts. They are usually 8 or 10 feet long, require a rather deep hole and I use the tractor to set them in the holes. No cement - just regular earth backfill and frequent tamping.

 

[TheMan419]

Its not whether the post is round or square - its the type of treatment the post has received. I'm fortunate - I've been able to get rail road ties. They are heavy to the extreme, very messy to handle but will last 3 or 4 lifetimes, at least. I use them for corners and gate posts. They are usually 8 or 10 feet long, require a rather deep hole and I use the tractor to set them in the holes. No cement - just regular earth backfill and frequent tamping.

I would use RR ties if I could assure I would have a constant supply of them. Personally I like the look of a 6x6 over round. However as we build more pastures the plan is to use wood posts for the gates and corners. T posts for the rest of the fence posts. The only thing I want to assure is that they are all the same. So if I do this project to hang a couple gates with 6x6 then that is what we will use for ever more. IF we go round that is what we will use for ever more.

I would have no problem with RR ties if I knew I could always get more of them to use on the next paddock as we build them out.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm a bit surprised by the advice to use RR Ties. But in could just be what's available in different areas of the country. Here, they are made out of just about any type of wood, but mostly junk trees that are not worth milling into quality lumber. Gum trees are probably used most o fall. RR Ties are not meant to be put in the ground, they are placed on top of well drained gravel. In my experience, they rot out very quickly. With posts, the entire wood in the ground gets eaten up by termites and other bugs once they find a way through the tar that coats it. Remember, it's not pressure treated, just coated. In landscaping, it disappears from the ground side and for years, it looks fine, but there isn't anything behind what you see.

As for the original question, round or square, the biggest difference is cost. Round posts cost a lot less money. Be sure to buy them when there are a lot to choose from. If you show up and there are only a few left, you know all the best ones have already been sold and you are left with the rejects. In my area, you can buy round posts at a dozen different places, so there is always somebody with some good ones, somewhere.

Treated posts do not rot in the ground or in the air. They always rot at ground level. This is where the moisture remains, and it's where the grass shades it so it remains just a little longer.

The trick to protecting a post in the ground is to have the water flowing away from it. Concrete has an advantage because you can build it up the sides of the post with it and never have to worry about it again. With soil compacted around the post, no matter how much effort you put into compacting it, it will always be looser then the virgin soil around it. Over the years, it will absorb more moisture in that soil, but that's not the real issue. That soil will also settle and get washed away around the post rather quickly, and you are left with a low spot that holds water. This is why wood posts rot!!!!!!

For a gate, corner posts and all bracing, I use concrete. It's the only thing that after you are done, you are actually done and you don't have to mess with it again.

 

[TheMan419]

I'm a bit surprised by the advice to use RR Ties. But in could just be what's available in different areas of the country. Here, they are made out of just about any type of wood, but mostly junk trees that are not worth milling into quality lumber. Gum trees are probably used most o fall. RR Ties are not meant to be put in the ground, they are placed on top of well drained gravel. In my experience, they rot out very quickly. With posts, the entire wood in the ground gets eaten up by termites and other bugs once they find a way through the tar that coats it. Remember, it's not pressure treated, just coated. In landscaping, it disappears from the ground side and for years, it looks fine, but there isn't anything behind what you see.

As for the original question, round or square, the biggest difference is cost. Round posts cost a lot less money. Be sure to buy them when there are a lot to choose from. If you show up and there are only a few left, you know all the best ones have already been sold and you are left with the rejects. In my area, you can buy round posts at a dozen different places, so there is always somebody with some good ones, somewhere.

Treated posts do not rot in the ground or in the air. They always rot at ground level. This is where the moisture remains, and it's where the grass shades it so it remains just a little longer.

The trick to protecting a post in the ground is to have the water flowing away from it. Concrete has an advantage because you can build it up the sides of the post with it and never have to worry about it again. With soil compacted around the post, no matter how much effort you put into compacting it, it will always be looser then the virgin soil around it. Over the years, it will absorb more moisture in that soil, but that's not the real issue. That soil will also settle and get washed away around the post rather quickly, and you are left with a low spot that holds water. This is why wood posts rot!!!!!!

For a gate, corner posts and all bracing, I use concrete. It's the only thing that after you are done, you are actually done and you don't have to mess with it again.

Interestingly the GC stuff I am seeing on line claims to be rated for fresh water applications such as building a boat dock. Now this is stuff just generally available at the big box stores so it is not like I am looking for specific marine application stuff.

Not that I want to enter the debate of tamp v. concrete, but I am leaning toward concrete. Use either a 6x6 or a 6 in round, 12 in hole and quickcrete.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[oosik]

I'm sure RR ties are made out of various types of trees. No idea what kind of wood the ties I have are made of. I currently have around 15 that were installed in 1982 for gates, corners, half way points. They are still as solid as the day they were installed.

I'm also wondering - I see 6" x 6" treated posts being sold at Lowes and Home Depot that are being called "railroad type ties". They are about the furthers thing from a RR tie that you could possibly use. A true RR ties is an extremely heavy, pressure treated piece of wood - at least in this neck of the woods. I can still smell the creosote in the two ties at my inner gate - 35 years after I installed them.