Gate post/fence post

[TheMan419]

So SWMBO and I are "debating" what posts to use to hang gates. We have horses. Intent is to plant a wood post and hang 8 foot gate on it for the paddock. I am not intending to start the typical debate of do we just tamp in, use concrete etc.

The issue is what post to use.

I was thinking a 6x6 ground contact square post. Since we live in the great white north the wisdom is a 4 foot hole. Then make the typical "H" with another 6x6.

SWMBO thinks we should use a round post.

Around here the only place close by I can find a round post is TSC. They do not get the best reviews. The rub on them is that either they are crooked, split, knotted etc. or they simply have not been pressure treated with enough chemical and they rot out quickly.

Assuming the 6x6 post or the 6' round post has been properly treated is there any different reason to use one over the other?

 

[RNeumann]

EVERYONE knows it's round all day long- but only because that's what the SWMBO wants!

You are on the right track- it's all in the treatment. Skip TSC and call your lumber yard or pole barn contractor- you only want to do this once!

 

[Birdhunter1]

Square post vs round post is entirely an owner preference, I have set many of both and the gate, horse, cow or dog does not know the difference. In my opinion the deeper it is buried and the bigger the diameter (within reason) the more solid it will stay. At my place I have both round and square posts holding gates.

The only posts I have ever set in concrete have all rotted, in my lifetime, and I'm only 37. I can show you thousands of posts not in concrete, that are older than I am (some of which were set by my 70 year old father 50 or 60 years ago), that are still standing and holding fence wire.

I do find that round end posts are easier to wrap high tensile or barbed wire on than square posts. Again I have both round and square at my corners and ends.

When you hang your gate I like to use a threaded gate hinge pin for the top so I can adjust it with a gate still on it if I so desire, and the fact self tappers will pull out of the post long before the threaded with nuts on it.

I like using square posts to make H structures, to me it is a neater appearance.

 

[V65ozzie]

When I redid my gate, I used an old steel pipe that I recovered on a job, about 6" in diameter. cut a couple of holes through it at the base for a couple of pieces of rebar(to prevent twist) and concreted that puppy in, it's got a 12ft steel gate with an electric opener on it, so far it's holding up. Now I have to add some fence to it, so I'm going to bolt a 4x4 to it so I can nail the fence to it. Wood: easy attachment of fencing. Steel: a bit more problematic...
Thegate open was taken out by lightning, it actually blew the box off the old pole. Once I get the fence up I will relocate the box and replace the opener, This time I will ground it through the pole instead or relying on a ground strap. Also planning on putting a solar powered security light on top of the pole.

 

[ustmd]

We used 6 inch posts from TSC for our gates in the horse pastures. They have been in 12+ years, so far, so good.

 

[flyerdan]

Depending on what it has to match up to, a 4" sched 40 should be plenty for a small gate. Square tube would also work, the nice thing about steel is that you can use up a lot of drop to make up the length that goes into the ground.

 

[Ford850]

I would get something better than 'ground contact'. You need to have one rated for below ground use. Treated lumber companies are now recommending 'ground contact' lumber for most average uses, including all deck boards, because 'above ground' rated lumber isn't lasting like they thought it would. I would sink it at least 4', maybe 5' if possible. More work up front, but it really helps over the years.

 

[ThirdMan]

We have been building fencing using round posts for the corners and gates. There is a difference in quality between suppliers. We ordered some through Menards (they don't keep them in stock, but would special order). They were not very consistent in size or very strait. A new Farm and Home Supply store opened up near me and they have them in stock. Much nicer then what Menards delivered, and we can pick from the stack the ones we want.

A 6x6 square is more wood then a 6 inch round, and costs more. I built one post that way, but like the look and working with the round posts.

 

[Stimw]

First pic is with power poles set 5' deep with 2 12' gates.
Second pic is 6" posts from local ACE Hardware set 4' deep with 14' gate.
Haven't had problems with either one sagging.
A 6" round has more wood than a 6" square post and most 6" square are only 5" X 5".

 

[TheMan419]

First pic is with power poles set 5' deep with 2 12' gates. Second pic is 6" posts from local ACE Hardware set 4' deep with 14' gate. Haven't had problems with either one sagging. A 6" round has more wood than a 6" square post and most 6" square are only 5" X 5".

Ok so cement or just tamped? The first pic are they 6x6? I personally like the look of square. Se likes round. So you know we are going round unless I have a "scientific" argument that square is better.

 

[TractorGuy]

I bought some fence posts from TSC and I think they were 8-9". They were fairly straight and super sturdy. I bored the holes with a 12" auger and tamped dry concrete and dirt around them. I've been told the concrete will absorb moisture from rain and set. They are solid as a rock either way. I hung double 10' gates so they don't have much weight on them.

 

[Stimw]

Ok so cement or just tamped? The first pic are they 6x6? I personally like the look of square. Se likes round. So you know we are going round unless I have a "scientific" argument that square is better.

All the posts are just tamped down as I kept them level.
With the depth I set them I don't think concrete would make a difference.
I always paint a depth line on posts before I set them to make sure I get them deep enough. You can knock dirt in the hole and come up short.

 

[hosspuller]

Every post that has rotted, did so at the soil line. The post above AND below this area was solid and strong. I'm trying a new method. I've wrapped the post at the soil line with black poly. I'll let everyone know in 20 years how effective this is.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Somewhere I had read that round posts are stronger because the grain has not been weakened by cutting or something like that. Horses being horses, I don't like the "sharp" corners.

Do you have any Southern States stores around you? At least in KY, they carry CCA treated posts. I do not know if CCA for ag applications is legal in all states or not? Though there is a plant about an hour north of me, the ones my local store orders in come from VA. The location I shop at will order any size in any quantity if I don't need a whole bundle.

Also, when I make an "H" brace, I don't make a figure eight with my brace wire. I just use a single wire with a tensioner at the upper end. I don't think a single wire resists the pull as well as an looped wire but it's safer for around horses. I also like to use scrap pieces of "Hotcoat" tensile wire for my brace wire. The plastic coating adds another layer of safety.

 

[TheMan419]

Does any one know what preservative retention TSC has in their posts? I cannot find anything on their web site that tells me that. SWMBO is pretty much insisting on round. It looks from the discussion here that there is no real difference between round vs using a 6x6. Of course that assumes the preservative retention of both posts is the same.

I will have to do some digging to find local lumber yards that have round posts. The big box stores (where I can see their inventory on line) do not seem to carry them. We have several lumber yards in town that I am sure will carry them. They just don't have good on line inventory systems.

The GC stuff carried by Home Depot seems to be treated to .40.

 

[oosik]

Its not whether the post is round or square - its the type of treatment the post has received. I'm fortunate - I've been able to get rail road ties. They are heavy to the extreme, very messy to handle but will last 3 or 4 lifetimes, at least. I use them for corners and gate posts. They are usually 8 or 10 feet long, require a rather deep hole and I use the tractor to set them in the holes. No cement - just regular earth backfill and frequent tamping.

 

[TheMan419]

Its not whether the post is round or square - its the type of treatment the post has received. I'm fortunate - I've been able to get rail road ties. They are heavy to the extreme, very messy to handle but will last 3 or 4 lifetimes, at least. I use them for corners and gate posts. They are usually 8 or 10 feet long, require a rather deep hole and I use the tractor to set them in the holes. No cement - just regular earth backfill and frequent tamping.

I would use RR ties if I could assure I would have a constant supply of them. Personally I like the look of a 6x6 over round. However as we build more pastures the plan is to use wood posts for the gates and corners. T posts for the rest of the fence posts. The only thing I want to assure is that they are all the same. So if I do this project to hang a couple gates with 6x6 then that is what we will use for ever more. IF we go round that is what we will use for ever more.

I would have no problem with RR ties if I knew I could always get more of them to use on the next paddock as we build them out.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm a bit surprised by the advice to use RR Ties. But in could just be what's available in different areas of the country. Here, they are made out of just about any type of wood, but mostly junk trees that are not worth milling into quality lumber. Gum trees are probably used most o fall. RR Ties are not meant to be put in the ground, they are placed on top of well drained gravel. In my experience, they rot out very quickly. With posts, the entire wood in the ground gets eaten up by termites and other bugs once they find a way through the tar that coats it. Remember, it's not pressure treated, just coated. In landscaping, it disappears from the ground side and for years, it looks fine, but there isn't anything behind what you see.

As for the original question, round or square, the biggest difference is cost. Round posts cost a lot less money. Be sure to buy them when there are a lot to choose from. If you show up and there are only a few left, you know all the best ones have already been sold and you are left with the rejects. In my area, you can buy round posts at a dozen different places, so there is always somebody with some good ones, somewhere.

Treated posts do not rot in the ground or in the air. They always rot at ground level. This is where the moisture remains, and it's where the grass shades it so it remains just a little longer.

The trick to protecting a post in the ground is to have the water flowing away from it. Concrete has an advantage because you can build it up the sides of the post with it and never have to worry about it again. With soil compacted around the post, no matter how much effort you put into compacting it, it will always be looser then the virgin soil around it. Over the years, it will absorb more moisture in that soil, but that's not the real issue. That soil will also settle and get washed away around the post rather quickly, and you are left with a low spot that holds water. This is why wood posts rot!!!!!!

For a gate, corner posts and all bracing, I use concrete. It's the only thing that after you are done, you are actually done and you don't have to mess with it again.

 

[TheMan419]

I'm a bit surprised by the advice to use RR Ties. But in could just be what's available in different areas of the country. Here, they are made out of just about any type of wood, but mostly junk trees that are not worth milling into quality lumber. Gum trees are probably used most o fall. RR Ties are not meant to be put in the ground, they are placed on top of well drained gravel. In my experience, they rot out very quickly. With posts, the entire wood in the ground gets eaten up by termites and other bugs once they find a way through the tar that coats it. Remember, it's not pressure treated, just coated. In landscaping, it disappears from the ground side and for years, it looks fine, but there isn't anything behind what you see.

As for the original question, round or square, the biggest difference is cost. Round posts cost a lot less money. Be sure to buy them when there are a lot to choose from. If you show up and there are only a few left, you know all the best ones have already been sold and you are left with the rejects. In my area, you can buy round posts at a dozen different places, so there is always somebody with some good ones, somewhere.

Treated posts do not rot in the ground or in the air. They always rot at ground level. This is where the moisture remains, and it's where the grass shades it so it remains just a little longer.

The trick to protecting a post in the ground is to have the water flowing away from it. Concrete has an advantage because you can build it up the sides of the post with it and never have to worry about it again. With soil compacted around the post, no matter how much effort you put into compacting it, it will always be looser then the virgin soil around it. Over the years, it will absorb more moisture in that soil, but that's not the real issue. That soil will also settle and get washed away around the post rather quickly, and you are left with a low spot that holds water. This is why wood posts rot!!!!!!

For a gate, corner posts and all bracing, I use concrete. It's the only thing that after you are done, you are actually done and you don't have to mess with it again.

Interestingly the GC stuff I am seeing on line claims to be rated for fresh water applications such as building a boat dock. Now this is stuff just generally available at the big box stores so it is not like I am looking for specific marine application stuff.

Not that I want to enter the debate of tamp v. concrete, but I am leaning toward concrete. Use either a 6x6 or a 6 in round, 12 in hole and quickcrete.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[oosik]

I'm sure RR ties are made out of various types of trees. No idea what kind of wood the ties I have are made of. I currently have around 15 that were installed in 1982 for gates, corners, half way points. They are still as solid as the day they were installed.

I'm also wondering - I see 6" x 6" treated posts being sold at Lowes and Home Depot that are being called "railroad type ties". They are about the furthers thing from a RR tie that you could possibly use. A true RR ties is an extremely heavy, pressure treated piece of wood - at least in this neck of the woods. I can still smell the creosote in the two ties at my inner gate - 35 years after I installed them.