Carry permit. Would traffic stop make police be more cautious? yea or nay?

[Sigarms]

That's a perfect example of the problems this country is facing today. You teach your boys never to trust Authority, and in particular the police. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy... If that's all you're looking for then that's what you will see every time you look at the police. What a depressing outlook on life.

Dude, if you believe that the police are only in existence for "truth and justice", I really want in your world of reality.

Apparently you also missed the part about RESPECT.

There are some good cops, there are some bad cops (you yourself admitted so). Heck, even some of the LEO'S I shoot with say the same thing. My boys don't know the difference, you ALWAYS error on the side of caution and don't think for one minute that the conversation is about "protecting and serving".

 

[Sigarms]

There are a lot of bad cops out there. Probably more good ones though. What annoys me most is that the good ones don't put the bad ones in their place, get rid of them entirely, or send them to jail where many belong. The good are as bad as the worst in this system.

Police MUST be model citizens if they want respect.

BIG +1

You see that video of the nurse being arrest in Utah for the blood draw?

ALL THOSE LEO's standing around, and not ONE stepped in and told the arresting deputy he may be off base.

 

[ovrszd]

There are a lot of bad cops out there. Probably more good ones though. What annoys me most is that the good ones don't put the bad ones in their place, get rid of them entirely, or send them to jail where many belong. The good are as bad as the worst in this system.

Police MUST be model citizens if they want respect.

But don't we as Citizens have a moral obligation to be model citizens in our dealings with LEOs to get their respect?

I believe often Citizens think the LEO works for THEM. That's simply not true.

 

[Sigarms]

I believe often Citizens think the LEO works for THEM. That's simply not true.

The reality is any LEO agency works for the government in some form or fashion. The work performed by the LEO agency is to enforce those laws set forth by the government.

People have this misconception that the police are required to protect them, which is simply NOT true.

I tell my boys to respect the law, but be fearful of it as well. Also try to instill in them that if they need help to protect themselves, they need to be able to do it for themselves, and never to rely on others, particularly the police.

 

[ovrszd]

The reality is any LEO agency works for the government in some form or fashion. The work performed by the LEO agency is to enforce those laws set forth by the government.

People have this misconception that the police are required to protect them, which is simply NOT true.

I tell my boys to respect the law, but be fearful of it as well. Also try to instill in them that if they need help to protect themselves, they need to be able to do it for themselves, and never to rely on others, particularly the police.

I agree with your first two statements.

I don't agree to teaching my family to be fearful of the law.

Respect is a word thrown around liberally in these conversations. If practiced diligently it's a thing of depth that starts at the root of interaction. For example, your post to TSO starting with "Dude". You did not mean that as a term or respect or endearment. You meant it as a degrading and neutralizing label. To put him on the defense. If you had meant it as a title of respect you would have called him "Sir".

These little nuances that we use in our speech and manner is what LEO's cue in on when dealing with an unknown citizen. Would you tell your boys to start their conversation with an LEO by calling them "Dude"?

Point being, our everyday mannerisms display a lot about who we are and what we are about. The LEO only has a few seconds to make a determination. This is commonly done by "off subject" questions/comments to analyze the natural response of the citizen they are dealing with.

Tough job. Only a couple posters on this thread have attempted it as a career.

 

[TSO]

Dude, if you believe that the police are only in existence for "truth and justice", I really want in your world of reality.

Apparently you also missed the part about RESPECT.

There are some good cops, there are some bad cops (you yourself admitted so). Heck, even some of the LEO'S I shoot with say the same thing. My boys don't know the difference, you ALWAYS error on the side of caution and don't think for one minute that the conversation is about "protecting and serving".

When you make a statement like, there are some good cops, and there are some bad cops, you are making a disingenuous, over generalized statement. The vast majority of officers out there are good, caring, honest people. They do their best with the rules and tools they are given. They don't go out there looking to violate anyone's constitutional rights or break any laws or offend citizens. Yes of course there are a few bad apples, it's going to happen at some point, and for the most part it will catch up to them in the end.

Yes I saw that you said you teach your kids to respect authority. But that really doesn't mean anything when on the other side of that same breath you tell your kids not to trust the Police. That's like saying, oh you know bill in the mail room, he's a really good guy and I have a lot of respect for him. But don't trust him at all, you can't assume he's being honest. Doesn't make any sense. How can you respect anyone that you don't trust?

Must be a dark and dismal world where you live in, under such a degree of paranoia...

Just because I didn't like the way I was treated by a car salesman, doesn't mean that I'll treat every other salesmen in the future with disrespect or distrust. That wouldn't be fair or reasonable to all of the other good car salesman out there. And insert practically any profession into that same scenario.

The bottom line is, some people will always have a problem with authority, nothing you can do to change their opinion, no matter how irrational it may be.

Again, if you think there are so many bad cops out there, why don't you guys sign up for the job, or encourage your children to join. Maybe you'll finally be the ones to sway the paranoid doubters into trusting the Police. Good luck with that.

Until then, I'll continue to thank and support public Safety personnel for risking their safety and living under the microscope of those who either refuse, are unwilling, or are otherwise unqualified to serve in the same capacity.

 

[Sigarms]

Must be a dark and dismal world where you live in, under such a degree of paranoia...

No not hardly. It's actually bright and sunny. I'm not paranoid, just not automatically trusting of someone just because they wear a badge.

When I was a child, my favorite uncle was a decorated officer from WW2, college educated, and he had what some would consider a pretty illustrious career serving and working for his country with various forms of federal law enforcment agencies, the longest position being the department of justice until he retired. As a child, I could never understand why a man in his position would ever try to convince me as a child to be aware of the same goverment he worked for and never trust it. He also had a lot of cool guns and he worked in DC, so perhaps me being a kid that was a part of it LOL. In all seriousness, as a man now myself, I understand now my uncles line of thinking.

My cousin (my favorite uncle's son) did go into law enforcement, but he got out of it. I also have another cousin who went into federal law enforcement, but he got out of it as well. With both, the civilians didn't bother them as much as the people who they worked for.

Ironically enough, know a guy who the state went after for murder. Only due to the fact that he had a lot of money and could hire good attorneys, he beat the wrap. He's now suing the state for having employees who fabricated evidence (which he proved in court). The state of course fired the employees and is claiming they have immunity because they are the state. Think about that for a while...

My only point is the only person you can rely upon to take care of yourself or your loved ones is YOU. And yes, I believe you can respect the law, but be fearful of it at the same time.

 

[ovrszd]

I think in this discussion "fearful" and "paranoid" may have been used a bit too easily.

 

[Soundguy]

Awwww,,,, you were doing so good.......

Hey, there's no sugar coating it.. Bad cops cause serious problems.

Its not a large % thankfully.

 

[ovrszd]

Hey, there's no sugar coating it.. Bad cops cause serious problems.

Its not a large % thankfully.

Yeah, I agree. I just don't think a law violator's behavior can be blamed on a small percentage of bad LEOs. Although "Legal Guns for Hire" (Lawyers) try it all the time.