Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

Hi Just joined tractor by net and for a specific need. I have a new after market May Hill diverter valve with three ports and a handle that conveniently indicate which port you have open because the handle seems to match the hydraulic oil diverter hole on the interior shaft. That to me means each of these three locations are supplies to auxillary implements. That also tells me that the return from a loader for example should be piped to one of the plugs that are in the upper part of the transmission housing on my MF 135. Would anyone be willing to weigh in on my thinking on this? Thank you.

 

[Dave M7040]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

I think you are on the right track but a couple of points to consider.

How is the 3 pt hitch lifting system getting its hydraulic power.

Anything connected to your May Hill diverter valve must have a return path to the hydraulic fluid reservoir which, in your case, sounds like the transmission case.

If you used your diverter to control a single acting cylinder, you end up dead heading the flow and best hope there is a relief valve before the May Hill Valve.

A FEL valve would get its flow from a port on your diverter valve and, through its open center, return the flow to the transmission.

Anything connected to the diverter must have its own control valve.

Dave M7040

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

I think you are on the right track but a couple of points to consider.

How is the 3 pt hitch lifting system getting its hydraulic power.

Anything connected to your May Hill diverter valve must have a return path to the hydraulic fluid reservoir which, in your case, sounds like the transmission case.

If you used your diverter to control a single acting cylinder, you end up dead heading the flow and best hope there is a relief valve before the May Hill Valve.

A FEL valve would get its flow from a port on your diverter valve and, through its open center, return the flow to the transmission.

Anything connected to the diverter must have its own control valve.

Dave M7040

Thanks for the feedback Dave
the 3 pt system has its fluid from the transmission via the draft control lever or pressure control depending on the type of implement.
This is all quite new to me but my loader is equipped with a pair of double acting cylinders. To switch from 3 pt to loader I set the draft control all the way to the back and inner quadrant control lever to constant pumping; this allows the May Hill diverter to act as my "auxiliary control valve" to enable the loaders Nimco control valve get hydraulic fluid to the loader. There is a Nimco valve on the loader and I have struck out talking to Nimco customer service about a manual for the valve. It is a single joy stick and I hope to figure out its' functions when I get everything operating. This was a used 2001 item on the loader I bought and I have bought a o ring rebuild kit that is due here Monday; has some significant leaking. I'm going to take my time on this and plan on calling Nimco technical help tomorrow to get an explanation on hydraulic return to transmission from the 2S-40272 valve mounted on the loader.
The most obvious thing on the diverter valve is that three ports are supply only depending on the location of the handle ; Nimco needs to tell me which valve port is for return.

 

[Dave M7040]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

Thanks for the feedback Dave
the 3 pt system has its fluid from the transmission via the draft control lever or pressure control depending on the type of implement.
This is all quite new to me but my loader is equipped with a pair of double acting cylinders. To switch from 3 pt to loader I set the draft control all the way to the back and inner quadrant control lever to constant pumping; this allows the May Hill diverter to act as my "auxiliary control valve" to enable the loaders Nimco control valve get hydraulic fluid to the loader. There is a Nimco valve on the loader and I have struck out talking to Nimco customer service about a manual for the valve. It is a single joy stick and I hope to figure out its' functions when I get everything operating. This was a used 2001 item on the loader I bought and I have bought a o ring rebuild kit that is due here Monday; has some significant leaking. I'm going to take my time on this and plan on calling Nimco technical help tomorrow to get an explanation on hydraulic return to transmission from the 2S-40272 valve mounted on the loader.
The most obvious thing on the diverter valve is that three ports are supply only depending on the location of the handle ; Nimco needs to tell me which valve port is for return.

Can you post some pictures of your setup as it would help us understand it better.

The return port to the transmission from your Loader valve should be easy to identify.

This simple sketch is my way to try and explain the valve functions.

Hydraulic oil under pressure is fed into the valve block, often on the side of the block but not always.

If you have not moved the joystick, oil flows straight through the valve block and returns to the transmission.

If you want to lift the loader arms, you block the flow to the transmission and instead send it to the lift port on the two cylinders on the loader arms.

As oil flows into the lift port on these two cylinders, oil must leave the cylinder out the other port, one on each cylinder and return to the transmission. If this oil did ot have a return path, the cylinder push rod could not move. This return path takes place inside the valve block and uses the common return port and hose.

If you want to curl the bucket, you send oil under pressure to the curl port on the bucket cylinder and oil from the other port on the bucket cylinders are also diverted to the common return line and back to the transmission.

If you put the joystick into full loader arm lift position, for as long as all oil flow available is going to lift the arms, no oil is available to power the bucket cylinders.

Sometimes hydraulic valves including a FEL vaalve incorporate a "power beyond feature." For the moment lets no make matters more complicated for you.

Dave m7040

 

[void777]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

stillatit
Welcome to TBN .

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

Thanks and you're not the only one in a void; try retrofitting a loader, ouch. I am going to try to send pics of my dilemma.
Sorry. I am not able to post the pictures.

 

[shaeff]

Thanks and you're not the only one in a void; try retrofitting a loader, ouch. I am going to try to send pics of my dilemma. Sorry. I am not able to post the pictures.

You can make plumbing a lot easier if the loader has a reservoir built into the frame, and if you use a front mounted hydraulic pump instead of the internal pump.

The loader will be slow with the internal pump, but it will still work. Using a front mounted pump has many advantages- no messing with valves under your seat, your 3pt hitch will still work no matter what loader work you're doing, and you can easily use both simultaneously.

Edit: I believe the 135's used an adapter similar to the one that was on my machine when I bought it. Really just a plate that bolts to the loader frame and allows an SAE Type A pump to bolt to the plate and be centered with the front drive shaft off the crank pulley.

(My MF35 isn't supposed to have that setup on it, so I removed it and set it up properly)

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

You can make plumbing a lot easier if the loader has a reservoir built into the frame, and if you use a front mounted hydraulic pump instead of the internal pump.

The loader will be slow with the internal pump, but it will still work. Using a front mounted pump has many advantages- no messing with valves under your seat, your 3pt hitch will still work no matter what loader work you're doing, and you can easily use both simultaneously.

Edit: I believe the 135's used an adapter similar to the one that was on my machine when I bought it. Really just a plate that bolts to the loader frame and allows an SAE Type A pump to bolt to the plate and be centered with the front drive shaft off the crank pulley.

(My MF35 isn't supposed to have that setup on it, so I removed it and set it up properly)

Thanks for the input shaeff. I had wondered about doing as you suggest but endeavor to get it operable before I go forward (I have very little experience in hydraulics) For example I got the lift arms going, noticed a leak and fixed it. I then spent all day yesterday trying to figure out why my draft control and FEL will no longer respond. If I can get that worked out I have little doubt I will go with your suggestion. Thanks.

 

[PatrickS2222]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

Yes, as Shaeff stated, it would be a bit easier, and from an operator's view more convenient when using both systems frequently, to have a front-driven pump for the loader like his and my tractors have fitted. The 135's 3pt pump would certainly be capable of operating the loader - might require a few extra RPMs though. According to TractorData, the internal pump dlivers 4.8GPM, and is capable of 2800psi. The front-mounted pump on my MF40 loader (likely the same pump on Shaeff's tractor) does 20GPM, and will push 2125 psi. I find, unless I'm loading a truck, a fast idle is sufficient for most of what I do with the bucket, and suspect the internal pump would also be sufficient for me.

A lot of MF tractors from the late 1950s to early 1990s used similar versions of the same basic hydraulic system, built into the transmission cover.
A lot of these tractors has diverter valves fitted - there should be someone here knows them like the back of his hand. Maybe a m oderator can move this thread over to the MF Classic and Vintage for more response.

Note: I believe those plugs on the sides of the cover are pressure test points, not return ports. The best idea I believe is to drill and tap a hole into the (round) RH side cover beside the oil dipstick for a return hose fitting.

I also have a 135, and this valve could be useful on it. Best of luck, :thumbsup: and I will keep a keen eye on your progress.

 

[shaeff]

Thanks for the input shaeff. I had wondered about doing as you suggest but endeavor to get it operable before I go forward (I have very little experience in hydraulics) For example I got the lift arms going, noticed a leak and fixed it. I then spent all day yesterday trying to figure out why my draft control and FEL will no longer respond. If I can get that worked out I have little doubt I will go with your suggestion. Thanks.

The nice thing with the front pump, is that it has zero effect on what your lift and draft control are doing. That's one of the several reasons I suggested going that route. You won't need to mess with your draft or position controls to use the loader, and certainly not a diverted under the seat.

Front pump makes the loader system completely independent of the internal pump AND simplifies the hydraulic routing.

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

The nice thing with the front pump, is that it has zero effect on what your lift and draft control are doing. That's one of the several reasons I suggested going that route. You won't need to mess with your draft or position controls to use the loader, and certainly not a diverted under the seat.

Front pump makes the loader system completely independent of the internal pump AND simplifies the hydraulic routing.

My draft control and loader are now totally inoperable. A leak has developed at the control arm for the lower links and I'm afraid I blew some sort of seal. I took the diverter valve off and ran the tractor with the pick up tube stuck in the hydraulic pump and worked draft and position control enough that I should have seen fluid feeding out. I am stumped but suspect I may have to find someone capable of replacing some damaged parts. I will pull the response control cover this morning as see if anything looks suspicious; you may well ask, " HOw would I know?" Good question; let's here it for perseverance. PS I got closer to uploading photos but they didn't make it.

 

[PatrickS2222]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

Any idea yet as to what's happened?

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

I think I have it figured out. I had my return hydraulic in a port I had pulled a plug from under the seat up near the upper control arms. It apparently does not go to the transmission; so I was pumping fluid into the cavity meant for grease to the upper control arms normally accessed by grease zerts. I replaced the plug and tapped a new line in on top in front of the lift cover. The loader is working only partially; very slow to sometimes raise the lift arms on only forward push on the bucket curl. My new guess is the hydraulic pump is too small for my Ezee-On 2060 loader, which has four double acting cylinders. I am going to look into an auxillary pump set up from my local Massey Ferguson dealer 100 miles away.

 

[Dave M7040]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

I think I have it figured out. I had my return hydraulic in a port I had pulled a plug from under the seat up near the upper control arms. It apparently does not go to the transmission; so I was pumping fluid into the cavity meant for grease to the upper control arms normally accessed by grease zerts. I replaced the plug and tapped a new line in on top in front of the lift cover. The loader is working only partially; very slow to sometimes raise the lift arms on only forward push on the bucket curl. My new guess is the hydraulic pump is too small for my Ezee-On 2060 loader, which has four double acting cylinders. I am going to look into an auxillary pump set up from my local Massey Ferguson dealer 100 miles away.

Maybe we should all step back a bit and make certain the FEL plumbing is as it should be with a power beyond feature ( which is a $30 plug inserted into the FEL valve) which should be used instead of the diverter valve.

Could you advise why you are unable to post pictures. Don't know how which is where many of us were at one time?

I will send you a pm with my email address. Email some pictures and I will post them here for you.

Dave M7040

 

[shaeff]

How big is your return line? Can't possibly be as small as a grease zerk!

Definitely try to post some pics for us, we will be able to help much more.

Rather than going through a dealer, you can grab a pump from surpluscenter.com for much less money.

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

I have managed one photo to load to the attachments page, we'll see if it loads.

 

[Dave M7040]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

I have managed one photo to load to the attachments page, we'll see if it loads.View attachment 525483View attachment 525482

Now some photos which is a big help. Please try and answer my questions added to your photos.

I want to make certain I understand where the Diverter Valve gets its oil supply. Is it a valve made specifically for MF tractors and is supplied oil by being bolted to the transmission housing.
In your photo, one of the valve out ports has a plug in it. The lever selector is at that port's position. Does that not block the flow from the pump or is there more going on I don't see?
You talked of drilling and tapping a port into the transmission case. I assume the one I have marked is that one and if the hose was unscrewed, there wouldn jusst be a big void under that port?

Looking more closely at the FEL valve photo, is the actual valve behind what I am seeing on its side with the nut type thing I circled?

Dave M7040

 

[stillatit]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

The diverter valve in the first photo is a May Hill three port out valve controlled by the placement of the handle. It can apparently serve three different auxillary valves. The line coming out of it goes to the P2 side of my nimco FEL valve, not the T2 side which Nimco customer service told me is the out side of the valve (I took to mean return).. They do not have manuals on the valves that they no longer produce. The line I tapped in front of the diverter is indeed to return fluid into the upper void of the transmission. The plug below the FEL line is not something I would know about.
I have pulled the FEL again because it would only raise intermittently with much hesitation and I am afraid of damage. When it was set to the supply port and I was giving it it's test the lever was extremely hard to move to a different position. It makes me wonder if the supply and return lines are backward and the pressure too great for smooth movement of the handle.

 

[Leejohn]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

It looks like you have a PB fitting in the tank side and you have it plugged. If so take it out then plug it.

 

[Dave M7040]

Re: Ezee On loader on MF 135 tractor

Still....

Don't give up yet! Because the number of MF135 forum members is low and none posting on this thread, it is taking us all some time to understand your tractor.

It will turn out to be something simple we just have to figure out what.

I went back to your first post again.

I have a new after market May Hill diverter valve with three ports and a handle that conveniently indicate which port you have open because the handle seems to match the hydraulic oil diverter hole on the interior shaft. That to me means each of these three locations are supplies to auxillary implements. That also tells me that the return from a loader for example should be piped to one of the plugs that are in the upper part of the transmission housing on my MF 135.

Now I have it in my head that you ordered and installed the May Hill valve so you installed the pipe plug with teflon tape on it too. Is this correct?
The valve lever in your photo seems to be past the port with the plug you screwed in. Is this another position for the May Hill valve lever?


Could you easily remove the valve and then photo where is was sitting on the tractor immediately after you removed it. Also photograph the sides of the May Hill valve we have not seen in you photos.

Did the valve come with any instructions which you could post.

Did you have to remove anything in order to bolt on the May Hill valve?

In this next photo I have drawn a circle around an Allen wrench style plug in the transmission and just below the May Hill valve.

Because of its style and location it leads me to think somehow it is part of the hydraulic system.

Dave M7040