Carry permit. Would traffic stop make police be more cautious? yea or nay?

[Sigarms]

I've known a good number of officers that were terminated for behavior or complaint issues, and none of those cases were "high profile" or even "known" to the public. They were the results of either citizen complaints or activity viewed by members of the department. Some of you have this notion that all the good cops in the world will just turn a blind eye to police misbehavior by other members of their departments, but I think that is a unfair assumption that a lot of you are basing on your own personal opinions and not fact. Just because you see a couple videos on YouTube doesn't mean that the other ninety-nine percent of police encounters are happening that way. Just because you see a video on YouTube of somebody having a problem with their Kubota tractor doesn't mean that all Kubota Tractors will have that same problem, right?

And I don't mean this to come across as offensive, but we can't assume that Tom sellers version of his (brief) story is 100% true or accurate. Interesting how you will quickly jump to his defense when he makes a single statement about what, in his opinion, was a crooked cop. But at the same time, you will jump on the bandwagon against police officers who you assumed to be guilty or crooked, without knowing all the facts.

Edit: I'm sorry that (if this is really the case) Tom lost a brother. But until we have all of the facts, we can't make a fair judgement on the case or make assumptions on who was in the right/wrong.. If it turned out that an officer violated the law in his/her actions, then of course they should be held responsible.

Wow, ironically enough, most LEO's that I associate with have never been terminated or reprimanded. You must know a lot of bad people.

As for Tom Seller's point of view, if the county or LEO department was sued and lost, there is a good indication that wrong doing was a fact.

 

[TSO]

Wow, ironically enough, most LEO's that I associate with have never been terminated or reprimanded. You must know a lot of bad people.

As for Tom Seller's point of view, if the county or LEO department was sued and lost, there is a good indication that wrong doing was a fact.

Don't be immature about it...

 

[/pine]

Wow, ironically enough, most LEO's that I associate with have never been terminated or reprimanded. You must know a lot of bad people.

As for Tom Seller's point of view, if the county or LEO department was sued and lost, there is a good indication that wrong doing was a fact.

Liability and related insurance etc. costs are why many smaller municipal police departments have gone by the wayside in favor of contracting with larger regional departments...

 

[Sigarms]

Don't be immature about it...

Why am I being immature? The reality is I've known about 10 LEO's pretty well, none who have been demoted or reprimanded. My two relatives, one who worked for a large Texas police department and the other for a federal agency. Both of them left on their own terms kind of disgusted by what they saw and what they wen't through if they said anything. Yet apparently you know a lot of LEO's who have been demoted or reprimanded.

As for Tom Seller, I'll take his word for it. As I've mentioned in the past, I know a man personally who was on trial for murder and only due to the fact that he had a lot of money, he was able to prove that the state fabricated evidence against him (which he still is in the process of sueing now that the state supreme court over ruled the lower court that gave the state immunity).

 

[TSO]

Why am I being immature? The reality is I've known about 10 LEO's pretty well, none who have been demoted or reprimanded. My two relatives, one who worked for a large Texas police department and the other for a federal agency. Both of them left on their own terms kind of disgusted by what they saw and what they wen't through if they said anything. Yet apparently you know a lot of LEO's who have been demoted or reprimanded.

As for Tom Seller, I'll take his word for it. As I've mentioned in the past, I know a man personally who was on trial for murder and only due to the fact that he had a lot of money, he was able to prove that the state fabricated evidence against him (which he still is in the process of sueing now that the state supreme court over ruled the lower court that gave the state immunity).

I don't know why you're choosing to be immature with your response... I'm not a mind reader.

And of course, you'll take Tom's word... Because you both share the same OPINION based on your limited exposure. Point is, Tom is a random, anonymous internet persona, like the rest of us. We don't know if his claim even happened... If he is even telling the truth in his claim... And even more, we don't even know any of the factual details or background.

People find truth wherever they want, even if it's not justified or supported.

I have had professional dealings with hundreds of Police officers, perhaps more than a thousand. My opinion is that my exposure offers more comprehensive insight than your exposure. Respectfully...

 

[Sigarms]

I don't know why you're choosing to be immature with your response... I'm not a mind reader.

And of course, you'll take Tom's word... Because you both share the same OPINION based on your limited exposure. Point is, Tom is a random, anonymous internet persona, like the rest of us. We don't know if his claim even happened... If he is even telling the truth in his claim... And even more, we don't even know any of the factual details or background.

People find truth wherever they want, even if it's not justified or supported.

I have had professional dealings with hundreds of Police officers, perhaps more than a thousand. My opinion is that my exposure offers more comprehend insight than your exposure. Respectfully...

If you've had close to a thousand "professional dealings" with the police, may I ask what you do? Or am I supposed to take your word for it?

As for Mr. Seller, I just happen to know a guy that the state litterally tried to frame through their SBI department. Only due to the fact that this man (defendant) had a LOT of money to pay lawyers and professionals outside of the state (who ironically testified under oath that the state employees manipulated THIER own professional set procedures on "creating" evidence), he most likely would of been found guilty.

As I mentioned, I don't think all cops are bad, I really don't. That said, I don't have to trust those who I don't know. However, as long as I keep any dealings with LEO's professional and courteous, there is no issue whatsoever, even if I don't trust them.

 

[TSO]

If you've had close to a thousand "professional dealings" with the police, may I ask what you do? Or am I supposed to take your word for it?.

Investigations... But i can't be more specific than that on this forum.

 

[ovrszd]

Ahh.. the smoke screen answer.. The data I proposed was inconvienient, so you choose not consider it. Nice touch. Whether or not CCw holder is a profession or not, it is at least a trackable demographic, and it was placed against other demographics that DID involve professions.

For instance, in that US study that LD posted.. CCW holders have a lower crime rate than police officers.

quoted text:

Among police, firearms violations occur at a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 officers. Among permit holders in Florida and Texas, the rate is only 2.4 per 100,000.10 That is just 1/7th of the rate for police officers. But there's no need to focus on Texas and Florida the data are similar in other states.".........The main takeaway from the report: concealed carry permit holders are the most law-abiding group in the country



Heck.. looking at that data, a police officer dealing with a CCW holder at a stopped vehicle should be HAPPY they have stopped a CCW holder, as they are the most law abiding faction of society. The police officer is statistically safer pulling over a CCW holder, than pulling over another police officer!

Gotta love cold hard data...

I see no smoke. What are you talking about??? Inconvenient?? Not consider??? You have totally lost me......

So, how about you tell us your profession and what percent of people in that profession are crooked??

 

[ovrszd]

If you've had close to a thousand "professional dealings" with the police, may I ask what you do? Or am I supposed to take your word for it?

I don't recall you exposing your profession and what percent of people in that profession you consider crooked?

 

[Soundguy]

I see no smoke. What are you talking about??? Inconvenient?? Not consider??? You have totally lost me......

So, how about you tell us your profession and what percent of people in that profession are crooked??

You said you didn't "consider" cwp as a profession. It however is a trackable demographic and can be used to compare other sample populations.

So regardless of being a profession or not, matters not. It shows clustered ideology.