New vs Old

[Newtocvt]

My old tractor was an IH 544 gas model hydro. It would struggle to lift a 5x6 bale over our fence to feed our cows but would easily lift the tractor front end. Handy when I got stuck. My new tractor a boomer 54d easily handles the same bales over the fence but won't lift the front end on the tractor. Is this normal or is something wrong?

 

[Xfaxman]

What happens when you try to lift the front?

Do you hear the relief valve open?

What does the motor do?

 

[Newtocvt]

I just tried it yesterday and it does make a noise. Engine rpm doesn't change. I am by no means a hydraulic or tractor expert but the sound definitely changes when the bucket contacts the ground.

 

[Fallon]

Hydraulics extend with a lot more force than they contract (more surface area on the cylinder end than the rod end because there is a rod in the way). They extend with multiple tons of force, but due to leverage the actual lifting power is way less.

Also, try tilting the bucket down before lowering the loader arms. Geometry may preventing the arms from going any lower. My L4060 arms won't really drop lower than the wheels. If the bucket is vertical it will lift the front wheels.

 

[Newtocvt]

I tried it with the bucket blade straight down and it still didn't lift the tractor. I could curl the bucket from that position and it moves the tractor. It just seems like there is very little down pressure. Hope that makes sense.

 

[ssrider]

I know on some loaders, if you push the loader joystick fully forward it puts it in "float." Is this possibly your problem?

 

[Newtocvt]

It does have float detent but this is happening when it's out of that detent.

 

[bigtiller]

Did you check the quick-couplers? Sometimes they get bumped and they loose contact.

 

[mcj115]

Do both pieces of equipment have power down? or is new piece of equipment gravity down?

 

[Newtocvt]

Do both pieces of equipment have power down? or is new piece of equipment gravity down?

Maybe that's it. I bought it used and didn't get a manual for the loader. Today I was playing around with it and I can lift the front end of the tractor with the dump and curl functions just not straight down with the loader.

 

[Egon]

Look at you cylinders. Does the ram still have room for movement

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Can you go up to something solid, like a hay bale, set the loader bucket on top of that, and then try to lift the front of the tractor? It would show you if it's a travel limit issue, or a hyd pressure/control issue.

 

[Newtocvt]

Can you go up to something solid, like a hay bale, set the loader bucket on top of that, and then try to lift the front of the tractor? It would show you if it's a travel limit issue, or a hyd pressure/control issue.

That's a good idea slowpoke. I just fed my last one but am getting more next week. I will report back with the findings.

 

[Texasmark]

Hydraulics extend with a lot more force than they contract (more surface area on the cylinder end than the rod end because there is a rod in the way). They extend with multiple tons of force, but due to leverage the actual lifting power is way less.

Also, try tilting the bucket down before lowering the loader arms. Geometry may preventing the arms from going any lower. My L4060 arms won't really drop lower than the wheels. If the bucket is vertical it will lift the front wheels.

Nice answer!

 

[Newtocvt]

So I finally got around to checking my loader with a round bale. No luck lifting the tractor even while pushing down on the top of a round bale. I know I am not pushing the stick to float and I can feel a little vibration in the stick when it contacts the bale or ground. Is that a relief valve opening?

 

[Xfaxman]

The best way to see if the relief valve is opening is to put a pressure gauge, were you can see it from the seat, in the line from from the pump.

Use the Google Custom Search box at the top of the page, there are several threads about it here on TBN.

I put a gauge in the alternate pressure in port on the loader valve:

The pressure in ports are on the right side:

Valve mounted, with pressure hose and return to reservoir hose:

It is next to the seat on the left side, just look down to see the pressure reading :thumbsup:

 

[Newtocvt]

I am going to go shopping for a pressure gauge, I have looked at my owners manual but I can't find what the hydraulic pressure should be. Where would that info be?

 

[Fallon]

I am going to go shopping for a pressure gauge, I have looked at my owners manual but I can't find what the hydraulic pressure should be. Where would that info be?

Under hydraulic specs. Sometimes it's in the loader manual for some reason. It may just be listed as max hydraulic pressure or operating pressure.

 

[Texasmark]

0-5000 psi, glycerine filled are available online, ebay for one, for a pence. Relief valves are in the range of 2500-3000#, usually 500+# above the output limit of your hyd pump. How much does your tractor and loader weigh? I'd figure about half for your lifting requirement or more figuring the loader. Half the loader weight is already on the ground so you can subtract that.

Curl and dump functions come off one cylinder and it has no float (usually). Lift comes off a separate cylinder and it has float.

Why not just swap hydraulic connections.....if like mine, QDs are at the joystick, or may be close at hand. That way you can run your lift function off the hydraulic circuit that you used for curl and dump and got satisfactory results. If things work when swapped, then look at the side that failed. Spring could have gotten weak on relief valve attached to control, or cylinder (inside the control) is leaking on that side. If you swap and it still doesn't work, time to renew the packing (seals) in your lift cylinders would be my first guess.

On ability to lift your machine, your hydraulic system should put out about 2500 PSIG at PTO rpms, a lot less at low rpms. If you had one square inch of piston area you would have 2500# of lift capacity at the cylinders on the loader. With usually 2 cylinders and 2" or so diameters, you have a lot more force available than that.......Force = PSIG x area of piston....(diamerer/2 squared x 3.14). There is an efficiency number associated with that which reduces the effective/usable force at the lift point, depending on the condition of, and design of your FEL.

Also is the foot-lbs part of the equation.....how far is your load from your lift point...pivots on FEL arms? Spec sheets on new loaders usually specify if rating is at lift arm pivot or usually 24" distant which doubles the lifting requirement for a given weight of load......and they go farther to specify if at full lifting height (because of FEL efficiency at different angles).

 

[Newtocvt]

Thank you texasmark! I will try changing the quick connects. I know the curl and dump work fine. Great idea. This place is very helpful for us less mechanically inclined. Thanks, I will post results after the swap.