Save $$$ - Heat with Wood

[ultrarunner]

If I sold firewood for the money, I wouldn't sell firewood
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This is where local conditions have impact...

Cost of electricity here can be over 30 cents per kWh depending on tier... then downed trees must often be removed under order of the fire suppression district and the transfer stations charge for disposal...

We had a local tree service that would dump rounds outside his business Free for the taking... just about always gone by morning... officials put a stop to that as it "Encouraged" wood burning...

About the only way to dispose of wood without paying is to chip... and this is for all size wood... many of the older chippers do not meet the Diesel Emission standard and those that are not re-powered and approved can't be used.

So many ways to look at it.

If you are able one other option is the co-generation plant that accepts clean wood to produce electricity... but not an option if your are too far away...

Even having a Yule Log on the fire has been prohibited just about every Christmas due to Burn Bans...

Business has been good for Chippers and Chipper manufacturers with compliant engines.

 

[4570Man]

If I sold firewood for the money, I wouldn't sell firewood
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I don't know where they got that chart but it doesn't accurately reflect local prices.

 

[4570Man]

I don't know where they got that chart but it doesn't accurately reflect local prices.

Just pulling some google numbers I get $10 per million BTUs in pellets ( $3.20 a bag on rural kings website and claimed 8,250 btus a pound). I got firewood to be $6.50 a million btus. ( $150 a cord, 24 million btus a cord ) Diesel is about $14 dollars a million btus assuming $2 a gallon. locally kerosene is priced uneconomical for heating. Fuel oil is a non existent fuel source. Propane is used only when natural gas isn't available. Electric is 12 cents a KWH. I doubt the pellets are nearly that high of btus as that's only 300 pounds of pellets to equal a cord of wood

 

[LD1]

Just pulling some google numbers I get $10 per million BTUs in pellets ( $3.20 a bag on rural kings website and claimed 8,250 btus a pound). I got firewood to be $6.50 a million btus. ( $150 a cord, 24 million btus a cord ) locally kerosene is priced uneconomical for heating. Fuel oil is a non existent fuel source. Propane is used only when natural gas isn't available. Electric is 12 cents a KWH. I doubt the pellets are nearly that high of btus as that's only 300 pounds of pellets to equal a cord of wood

Missing a zero there.

3000 x 8250 = 24.75 million BTU

forgetting efficiency with the firewood too.

Sure, some modern stoves may be more efficient, air-tight catalytic burn, etc.

But most run of the mill wood stoves are 50%.

So 24M btu's in a cord/.....only 12 million goes into the house as heat (the rest up the chimney).

So $150/cord / 12 = $12.50 per million.

They are figuring pellets at 80% efficient burn. Dont know the cost of pellets, I'll trust their ~$17 per million BTU's is correct.

Their heat pump factor being only twice as efficient as electric resistance is low I think.

Most modern 2-stage (or variable) air to air units are 3:1. And a 2-stage geo closer to 4:1

So by their chart and $0.11/kwh (which is pretty close to what I pay), My geo is in the ballpark of $8/million BTU. Compared to firewood at ~$12. Which seems to fall inline with my real world experience heating the house for two years with wood, and now on my second year with the geo

 

[4570Man]

Missing a zero there.

3000 x 8250 = 24.75 million BTU

forgetting efficiency with the firewood too.

Sure, some modern stoves may be more efficient, air-tight catalytic burn, etc.

But most run of the mill wood stoves are 50%.

So 24M btu's in a cord/.....only 12 million goes into the house as heat (the rest up the chimney).

So $150/cord / 12 = $12.50 per million.

They are figuring pellets at 80% efficient burn. Dont know the cost of pellets, I'll trust their ~$17 per million BTU's is correct.

Their heat pump factor being only twice as efficient as electric resistance is low I think.

Most modern 2-stage (or variable) air to air units are 3:1. And a 2-stage geo closer to 4:1

So by their chart and $0.11/kwh (which is pretty close to what I pay), My geo is in the ballpark of $8/million BTU. Compared to firewood at ~$12. Which seems to fall inline with my real world experience heating the house for two years with wood, and now on my second year with the geo

I knew I left out efficiency of the firewood. I don't know if it was already factored in either. I also left out the fact that there's no local Rural King and you'll have to pay tax and likely shipping on your pallet of pellets. I don't know how you'd go about making a chart with any degree of accuracy. Especially if you post it on the internet because that blows any chance of it because of local cost.

 

[IXLR8]

I wish I could find a cord of dried hardwood for $150. Around here it is $250 for green, $300 for dried, cut/split/delivered/dumped.

 

[4570Man]

I wish I could find a cord of dried hardwood for $150. Around here it is $250 for green, $300 for dried, cut/split/delivered/dumped.

I wish I could sell a cord for $300. Nobody sells a cord here it's all ricks. The top end is $50 a rick and I find 3 rick is a little more than a cord. I've also found that nobody actually sells dry wood regardless of what it's marked.

 

[LD1]

I knew I left out efficiency of the firewood. I don't know if it was already factored in either. I also left out the fact that there's no local Rural King and you'll have to pay tax and likely shipping on your pallet of pellets. I don't know how you'd go about making a chart with any degree of accuracy. Especially if you post it on the internet because that blows any chance of it because a local cost.

Which is why I have said all along it all depends on local costs, and no two areas are the same.

All I know, is around here...wood is $150-$160/cord.
Electric is 0.11-0.12 per kwh
And propane is around $1.50

Propane fluctuates the most. And therefore I would never rely on it as it is too inconsistent. 3-4 years ago propane was knocking on $4-$5 a gallon....IF you could get it. Last year, around a buck.

Ultrarunner talking about electric 3x the cost of mine.
Ixlr8 talking about firewood 2x the cost.
Lack of hardwoods in some areas like out west.
My area, rural places have no natural gas.

It all varies. Each and every person's situation is different.

Would live to sell firewood for $300/cord. But if I had to pay $0.30/kwh....no thanks.

 

[turnkey4099]

I have no vendetta against wood heat. Don't know how many times I have to say that.

Simply pointing out some of the downsides is no vendetta. But you conveniently forgot to quote me when I ALSO mention the upsides to burning as well.

And I don't understand why you always want to turn this into a debate about wood being better than alternatives.

I am not even arguing what is better.

It's simply about cost. And you can brag about how little money you spend cutting wood, and how cheap your saws and truck are. That is ancillary arguments.

And again, there is no doubt in my mind that many people do indeed save money with wood.

So forgetting all this arguing and bickering back and forth about nickel and dime stuff and let's start over.

My debate, and thus participation in this thread stems from the following:

Joe bob heats with propane. And he hates the bill. He is paying $1800 a season for propane.

Joe bob decides to burn wood. Forgetting upfront cost of setting up stove, cause it isn't relevant. And Joe Bob's saws and wood hauler run on pennies in the grand scheme.

So Joe Bob now proudly boasts about his new wood heat, and that by cutting and burning 8 cord of wood a year, that he is saving $1800 a year on heat.

Now this is what I am debating. Because Joe Bob's savings are NOT $1800 per year.

Joe Bob is only saving $1800 MINUS what the value of the wood is. What could he have sold it for?

That's it. Don't know how I can make it any clearer. If you heat with wood and like it, great. Just don't fool yourself about how much you are saving.

If you don't heat with wood, and enjoy what you have, that's great too. I don't care either way. Not trying to change anyone's method of heat. IE: no vendetta.

I heat my shop with wood. Grew up with wood heat. Heated my house the first two years with it, and still have the stove, chimney, etc in working order for backup for emergencies. I just choose not to use it, because my geothermal heats my whole house, for less money.

All good points but your posts have the tone of a total 'anti wooder'. There are benefits (and drawbacks) to any kind of heat.

 

[turnkey4099]

"What next? Gonna object to people going fishing because the harvest isn't a paying proposition?"<<<Yes, what a complete waste of time when should be out cutting firewood so it be sold, so then you can go buy a Geothermal heat pump, and or oil for your oil furnace, propane for the propane furnace, wood pellets for the wood pellet furnace, remember firewood has value, can also be sold so you can buy imported fish sticks from China at your local Whole Food Store, or at Amazon.

LOL luv it!