HST vs shuttle

[Skip77]

Skip, welcome to TBN!!!!!

This discussion comes up frequently here. There is never a winner. It's too dependent on the individual operator.

In your case, being an old gear drive guy, I think you would be disappointed in HST for the tasks you listed.

You didn't mention a loader (FEL)?? Are you planning on having one?? Running an FEL is the only time I would want an HST on a 40-50HP tractor. I'm an old gear guy too.

My little JD that I mow grass with is HST. I wouldn't want it any other way.

My 47HP Ford is gear drive with mechanical shuttle. Change directions using the clutch and shuttle lever. It does not have an FEL. It's life is brush cutting and light tillage work. Although I'd like to have hydraulic shuttle, I certainly don't want HST.

My 95HP Kubota is gear drive with Hydraulic Shuttle. Change directions by simply moving a lever forward/backward on the steering column like a turn signal lever on a pickup. I have an FEL on it and use it a lot. I'm also on hilly ground with it. I like the control that this setup gives me. It's life is heavy FEL work, brush cutting and heavy tillage work. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Ask any question. Someone on here has experienced the situation and can offer their advice. Just keep in mind the uses of tractors on here are very broad ranged. All examples given will not apply to your situation.

Again, welcome to TBN Skip!!!

Ovrszd,

Yes I will have a FEL on any tractor I buy as they save a persons back a lot. I really appreciate your reply as I feel like you are correct in as much as being use to a gear driven tractor would make a big difference in ones like or dislike of a HST. I can’t even get use to ridding a automatic atv and refuse to buy one that isn’t foot shift and I have reservations about the HST being the same way for me even though I have had people telling me that is the only way to go. But I do like to keep a open mind and find out as much as I can from others with more experience as well as being able to have actual time in the seat of a HST tractor before making the big purchase. The proble I see is that I have no friends that have a HST tractor for me to play around on and in my honest opinion just driving one around the level dealers lot isn’t really a good test to see how it would fit me in real world applications that I need a tractor for. I would love to have a tractor that my Wife and kids can run safely here on the farm and that’s where everybody keeps saying the HST would be the best bet yet I know i started driving tractors at a younger age than my kids and wife so why can’t they learn the same way I did on a gear tractor and be safe? I have hundreds of hours logged in the seat of a gear driven tractor and basically 0 hours of (real actual work time) hours in the seat of a HST tractor and that alone is enough to make this a very hard decision when you think about the fact that a tractor is a long term investment and a very expensive investment so I want to make sure I get the right one for my needs the 1st time.

I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to reply to this post with their opinions and likes and dislikes. Everything I read here is being taken into consideration and logged away for helping me in my decision. I know there are other post on here about this same topic and I have been reading as much of those as I can also. Again thank you to everyone.

Skip

 

[Skip77]

I know the maintenance required of a gear tractor but have no idea about the HST maintenance. Could someone explain to me what would be required and is it more expensive on the maintenance end for a HST compared to a gear tractor?

Thank you
Skip

 

[LouNY]

As far as gear or HST I'm strictly gear, that said my Branson has the Power Shuttle. That makes it an easy tractor for a person not used to a clutch to use.
I can and do select a range and a gear that I want, then with the shuttle in neutral and the engine at whatever rpm I want I can just push the lever forward and it will engage the clutches smoothly and drive ahead, to stop and reverse, simply pull the lever to neutral brake it to a stop, release the brakes and pull it to reverse and it will engage the reverse clutches and back up.
The foot pedal is still there and can be used if desired but it's not needed. Makes it easy for a new operator to not damage a clutch.

 

[Grandad4]

I know the maintenance required of a gear tractor but have no idea about the HST maintenance. Could someone explain to me what would be required and is it more expensive on the maintenance end for a HST compared to a gear tractor?

Thank you
Skip

Appreciate the thoughtful way you are approaching this. There is no right or wrong to this, both gear and HST drive systems get the job done effectively and work well for many, many operators. It's probably a bit like it was with automatic and straight drive automobiles many years ago. The automatic, like the HST, was a bit less efficient than the straight drive, and many folks just could never adapt to an automatic.

The thing about an HST is the hydraulics run just about everything on your tractor, including the drive mechanism. That puts your tractor in the same company as just about every piece of modern heavy duty construction equipment, which seem to be largely built around hydraulics technology also. Here's an interesting fact: While Caterpillar's large dozers use a powershifter type of drive (a form of gear drive), all Cat's large track loaders use an HST drive system because the manufacturer - and, evidently, their customers - believe it is superior for the back and forth of loader work. But all of this equipment requires proper operation and good maintenance (including changing the hydraulic fluid periodically, which isn't cheap). So if you use inexpensive generic hydraulic fluid, get dirt in the lines, overheat the system through misuse, or damage the plumbing somehow, you're putting the whole thing at risk of some expensive repairs. Tractor HST systems are tough, but you have to take care of them.

One reads that the great majority of tractors under, say, 60 hp sold in the US are HST. I'd suppose that's because it's just an easier system to use, particularly for beginners (although this old guy really appreciates the ease of operation also!). So take a serious look at how a good HST unit works. Hopefully you can find some salesman who is knowledgeable and helpful. But if in the end you decide you're just not ready to go down that road, there are still some very nice gear drive tractors out there as well.

 

[ericm979]

I know the maintenance required of a gear tractor but have no idea about the HST maintenance. Could someone explain to me what would be required and is it more expensive on the maintenance end for a HST compared to a gear tractor?

Thank you
Skip

There's two hydraulic filters instead of one. You have to be a little more careful about the tractor fluid you use, and change it a bit more often.


I'm real comfortable operating manual transmissions and clutches... most of my four wheel vehicles and all of the 30 some odd motorcycles I've owned have been manual transmission. But for tractors its HST for me. My land is steep and does not have many open spaces. When mowing it's rare for me to travel at the same speed for more than a few minutes at a time. HST is the easiest to change speeds while keeping the PTO at constant speed. If I was plowing or mowing or grading long passes of the same consistency where I could set a speed and not need to change it, the HST loses some of its advantage. The other advantage over a manual is inching the tractor, like when you're lifting something with pallet forks or changing implements. Yes you can slip the clutch but it wears the clutch. And unlike a lot of motorcycles where the clutch is easy to get to, you have to split the tractor to replace the clutch.

 

[N2DFire]

Hey Skip,

Much like you I grew up on a gear tractor (8N Ford) and even gear driven lawn mowers - so that was all I knew. First Hydrostatic thing we ever owned was a lawnmower in early 2000's.

We (my father and I) have roughly 18 acres of "Hobby Farm" in the foothills of the Blue Ridge to look after. Our biggest concern when tractor shopping was mowing (Rotary Cutter not hay or finish) so being a little leery of Hydro on anything bigger than a lawnmower and not having experience (and also never having a FEL for loader work before) we opted for the shuttle shift / gear model on the CK35.

After having it for right at 3 years now - our biggest single regret is not going hydro.
1) We have found so much loader stuff to do that we didn't have the ability to do before - so the multiple direction changes and trying to be precise / inch along would make HST nice
2) The single largest flat (well it's flat for around here anyway) field we mow, abt 4 acres, where gear would stand out has been leased out to a nearby dairy farm for haying so we don't mow it anymore.
3) The remaining field area is hilly and I find that there is no good "one gear" to keep RPM & ground speed in optimal range so HST would still be nice here (at least in theory).

I forget now who already said it here but it's 100% correct. There is no clear cut line for HST over Gear - it's going to vary with each person & their conditions / preferences.

If I were in your position I would at least test drive a couple of brands in gear & HST to get a general feel & then reevaluate how they would work with your given usage list.

Best of luck in whatever you pick.

 

[tman1020]

Here’s the bottom line. I don’t care what anyone says hydrostat is definitely the easiest to operate and arguably safer.
However if you need every ounce of power that your motor has to get to the ground or PTO some type of gear drive, or powershift something like that is the way to go. Hydrostats Rob a little power. They will relief out before your motor Boggs. This takes a little getting used to and is normally overcome by purchasing a little more horsepower than what you think you need.
Some guys love it some guys hate it just have to figure out which one you are.
Generally speaking for a utility tractor That does a little bit of everything especially with multiple operators hydrostat can’t be beat. Assuming you’re OK with a little extra scratch for a few more horsepower and the up cost of the hydrostat itself.

 

[Old Red]

If I didn't have my 15 foot batwing I would love to have that L Grand Hydro with cab but I let everyone take me out of it. Should have bought it and a 12 foot batwing instead of the 15 footer. I just love the Hydro.

 

[mike69440]

As far as gear or HST I'm strictly gear, that said my Branson has the Power Shuttle. That makes it an easy tractor for a person not used to a clutch to use.
I can and do select a range and a gear that I want, then with the shuttle in neutral and the engine at whatever rpm I want I can just push the lever forward and it will engage the clutches smoothly and drive ahead, to stop and reverse, simply pull the lever to neutral brake it to a stop, release the brakes and pull it to reverse and it will engage the reverse clutches and back up.
The foot pedal is still there and can be used if desired but it's not needed. Makes it easy for a new operator to not damage a clutch.

My Truck, hod rod, and SUV are stick. Our tractors are Power Shuttle and partial synchro Shuttle.

I'm a gear guy.

Would I want a crash box transmission in a tractor or drive a stick in traffic all day? answer is NO, so maybe I'm a lazy gear guy.

Hills, safety, Loader work, or working confined space, implement hook-up, HST has any gear beat, but some HST's are much better than others. Operate it first a lot on the dealers lot before buying.

 

[arrow]

Ovrszd,

The proble I see is that I have no friends that have a HST tractor for me to play around on and in my honest opinion just driving one around the level dealers lot isn稚 really a good test to see how it would fit me in real world applications that I need a tractor for.

I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to reply to this post with their opinions and likes and dislikes. Everything I read here is being taken into consideration and logged away for helping me in my decision. I know there are other post on here about this same topic and I have been reading as much of those as I can also. Again thank you to everyone.

Skip

Two dealers delivered two hydros to my property for me to use for a 3 day period. As I have stated before, the realm chosen depends on the tractor, the jobs intended and the wiring of the operator.

I was delivered a Mahindra 3016 (now called the 1526) hydro and a Kubota L3000 series to try out at my place by the dealerships. (forget if it was a 32 or 3400) The Mahindra simply did not fit with me. Counterintuitiveness aside (where you let up o the pedal for power) this tractor just didn't have the oomph I needed for the jobs around here. (Skidding mostly). Oh it would do it but too slow and engine pegged all of the time. The Kubota had a treadle which I hated even more. I ended up with the Mahindra 3016 geared and paid a song for it because his geared stuff simply wasn't selling. I love this tractor
Flash forward to this year and had a job bringing gravel in a riding indoor. used a Kubota M5400 series and a Kubota M6000 series. Both were geared. The 5400 was an utter pain to use as shifting was spotty. The 6000 was better with its column mounted shifter but for what I was doing, a hydro would have eclipsed easily both tractors.
Now in my mind, if one isn't tugging or ground engaging that much, a larger 50-60 hp hydro would do just about anything you would ask and do it a lot easier. Just figure how you're gonna use it mostly along with the type person you are. Perhaps there is a dealer or two that will allow you to try one on your property with the condition if you like it, you'll buy it.
I'm still a gear guy because my Mahindra shuttle is so darn easy to shift it's truly mindless. But if I'm recommending a tractor to someone and I know how they'll use it, I'd recommend the hydro all day long.

 

[teg]

....if you need every ounce of power that your motor has to get to the ground or PTO...

I would still get HST but buy a larger, extra HP, tractor to cover what the hydro's lose.

 

[mike69440]

I'm still a gear guy because my Mahindra shuttle is so darn easy to shift it's truly mindless. But if I'm recommending a tractor to someone and I know how they'll use it, I'd recommend the hydro all day long.

I can't say anything bad about the Mahindra (Mitsubishi Built) shuttles. It was the deciding factor in my purchase. Now if the rest of the tractor were that slick, It would be nicer than a Grand L!

 

[gersus]

Interesting. I was dead set on buying a HST until I drove a gear. The gear just felt "right" probably since I've only driven geared in the past. So, I've been planning on buying a geared tranny ever since. I see how using a HST for FEL work and precise movements would be better. I plan on doing a mix so I'm not sure, still leaning toward a gear though.

 

[LouNY]

Well **** I'm going to upset all the HST lovers on here,
if you are only putting 100 or so hours a year on a tractor under home owner work and do a good job of staying on the oil and filter changes the HST's will properly last several years,
if you are going to put a couple hundred or more hours a year on a tractor and expect to keep it and work it for 10 - 15 years and are going to do much drawbar work the
maintenance cost is going to be high, having to rebuild / replace a hydro unit makes clutch replacement a drop in the bucket. We have gear tractors with well over 10,000 hours
and they are still on the original clutch, a few have had a clutch required at around 5000 hours, no HST is ever going to match the longevity of a geared tractor in general.
When they start getting several thousand hours look at the resale of a hydro.
In the defense of the HST if I was going to get a small tractor for light jobs and light duty loader work I would consider one.

 

[arrow]

I can't say anything bad about the Mahindra (Mitsubishi Built) shuttles. It was the deciding factor in my purchase. Now if the rest of the tractor were that slick, It would be nicer than a Grand L!

You'd have to up its price point by about 10 grand Mike for that. The Kubota Grands are just that.

 

[Old Red]

Well **** I'm going to upset all the HST lovers on here,
if you are only putting 100 or so hours a year on a tractor under home owner work and do a good job of staying on the oil and filter changes the HST's will properly last several years,
if you are going to put a couple hundred or more hours a year on a tractor and expect to keep it and work it for 10 - 15 years and are going to do much drawbar work the
maintenance cost is going to be high, having to rebuild / replace a hydro unit makes clutch replacement a drop in the bucket. We have gear tractors with well over 10,000 hours
and they are still on the original clutch, a few have had a clutch required at around 5000 hours, no HST is ever going to match the longevity of a geared tractor in general.
When they start getting several thousand hours look at the resale of a hydro.
In the defense of the HST if I was going to get a small tractor for light jobs and light duty loader work I would consider one.

Oh Lou come on now....definately not upset.....I have a straight geared, shuttle shift, and HST......but anyway.....have you ever seen a gear driven skid steer loader on a construction site anywhere? I see Bobcat T190 Tracked Hydro Skid Steers with thousands upon thousands of hours on them doing very very hard tasks. Construction worker beat the living daylights out of their euipment. I owned one and worked it pretty hard myself.

Is it going to last as long....no....but will anyone on here ever ever ever wear one out.....absolutely not!

 

[DieselBound]

My cars are geared. They primarily run on highways, so not a lot of shifting. IF I had to drive in the city all the time I'd have automatics. Same applies to tractors. If I were doing long-stretch work, requiring little in the way of changing speeds, I'd have geared. My tractor situation, however, is more akin to city driving: lots of obstacles, speed changing and precision navigating. I have HST on my tractors (also HST on my Polaris Brutus). Heck, my B7800 has racked up a few miles w/o anyone in the seat! With this tractor I'd often jump off of it to do something before the tractor was even stopped: I work like a dog, speed is essential for me (I do not, however, lose track of the fact that everything I do requires my total concentration- safety).

One day I'll have to pull the engine out of my Polaris to replace a leaking rear main seal. If it were a geared machine I wouldn't be able to put this off (likely it would have long ago stopped working- oil soaked clutch).

My wife has operated all of our equipment. HST has made this possible. (and she drives a geared car!)

Precision, HST. Total grunt/power, geared.

 

[jk96]

I'm really liking my CVT after owning a similar tractor with hydro. Would by another without question.

 

[marchanna]

My uncle had an HST Kubota for his landscaping business. It was a real work horse; it must have been about a 25Hp. I don't know how many hours it had on it, but from May to October, it was used 8 - 10 hours a day for 5 - 7 days a week. Mowing, loader work, and grading. It worked on and on for about 15 years like that, then he finally retired. I used to work for him as a summer job and I probably logged a solid 400 hours on it just by myself.

I like my Kioti gear tractor. I don't plenty of loader work with it, and I can scoop a full heaping bucket every time. I assume there's a little more power and torque lost between the crankshaft and the rubber with the HST, but I don't know how much that typically is. On a road car, it's pretty common to see an additional 15% loss in an automatic compared to a stick.

 

[aczlan]

Well **** I'm going to upset all the HST lovers on here,
if you are only putting 100 or so hours a year on a tractor under home owner work and do a good job of staying on the oil and filter changes the HST's will properly last several years,
if you are going to put a couple hundred or more hours a year on a tractor and expect to keep it and work it for 10 - 15 years and are going to do much drawbar work the
maintenance cost is going to be high, having to rebuild / replace a hydro unit makes clutch replacement a drop in the bucket. We have gear tractors with well over 10,000 hours
and they are still on the original clutch, a few have had a clutch required at around 5000 hours, no HST is ever going to match the longevity of a geared tractor in general.
When they start getting several thousand hours look at the resale of a hydro.
In the defense of the HST if I was going to get a small tractor for light jobs and light duty loader work I would consider one.

How does $10k for a 1974 hydro with 6000 hours and a recent engine rebuild sound?
TractorHouse.com | 1974 INTERNATIONAL 7 HYDRO For Sale

Aaron Z