HST vs shuttle

[cphilip]

HST is the synthetic oil of the tractor world.... mo betta... LOL

 

[Steppenwolfe]

As it should

Also it will live on as long as the 覧 what is the best engine oil debate.

Hey, I would be remiss to not bring up what is the best brand of tractor as well... Just say'n.

 

[teg]

Hey, I would be remiss to not bring up what is the best brand of tractor as well... Just say'n.

ANY tractor brand is better than NO tractor... :cool2:

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Being new to the HST (meaning I know nothing about them) I have some questions for those who know more than I do. I was raised up running tractors from the age of 5 or 6 and was running my dads tractor solo around that age. I have only operated old school manual transmission tractors or a shuttle shift manual tractor so I have no real world experience with a HST. I have heard that the HST can and do lose power as they age do to the hydraulics weakening over time. I have even heard that it starts as early as 6 or 7 years old. I have been looking at and researching different tractors as I will be needing to buy one soon. I have almost 40 acres that is mostly pasture and mostly a hillside. I will be mowing, possibly putting up hay as well as feeding it in the winter. I will need to perform upkeep on the road and haul rocks. I would like to get a backhoe attachment for running water, electric lines as needed or just digging drainage or digging new cattleguard ditches. I also have a pond that I will be draining and cleaning out at some point. With all this in mind I would like your opinions and real life experiences to help me decide if a shuttle or a HST tractor is right for my needs. Once that is established we will then get into size and brand talks.

Thank you

Skip

Most new dozers are now HST. Dozers. Cat's wheel loaders up to 250hp are also HST. Nobody seems too concerned about losing power.

 

[mcfarmall]

Well as long as you are comparing don稚 forget gear drive tractors are not without their problems as well. Clutches don稚 last forever and are very expensive to replace on a tractor. Almost to the point that if you can稚 do it yourself an older tractor may not be worth repairing if you have to pay to have it done. Also I have seen more than one utility tractor with a destroyed gear transmission.

The old Farmall C is on it's third generation of skilled operators with the original clutch. I think the life of a clutch has more to do with the skill and habits of the operator than anything else.

I'd like to hear more about the CVT or iHMT trannys like the new Yanmars have in them. They sound very intriguing and I wonder if other manufacturers will be following suit.

 

[tman1020]

The old Farmall C is on it's third generation of skilled operators with the original clutch. I think the life of a clutch has more to do with the skill and habits of the operator than anything else.

I agree operator has a lot to do with it that being said it only takes one bad operator to ruin a clutch quickly. Another reason hydrostat could be an advantage. It’s much more forgiving to the amateur.

 

[Phillip w]

The old Farmall C is on it's third generation of skilled operators with the original clutch. I think the life of a clutch has more to do with the skill and habits of the operator than anything else.

I'd like to hear more about the CVT or iHMT trannys like the new Yanmars have in them. They sound very intriguing and I wonder if other manufacturers will be following suit.

I have to agree with the life of a clutch depends on the operator as well as what the tractor is used for. One thing people forget and some guys think their sub compact tractors are bullet proof, them old farmall were a pretty reliable, durable and rugged little tractor. They could take alot. I was not around the c much, but spent sometime around an h and an m. They were a good little tractor.

 

[Grumpa Wally]

When I purchased my 50 hp 12 spd shuttle shift tractor, the dealer let me test the tractors by hooking up a 7 shank spring loaded ripper and pulling it through some hard ground. I hooked up a 60hp HST and then the 50hp shuttle shift gear tractor. The 50hp gear tractor loved it and the 60hp HST worked hard. Both tractors accomplished the task, but the HST ate up torque before getting to the axles. I bought the 50hp shuttle shift and have never regretted the choice.

 

[ovrszd]

When I purchased my 50 hp 12 spd shuttle shift tractor, the dealer let me test the tractors by hooking up a 7 shank spring loaded ripper and pulling it through some hard ground. I hooked up a 60hp HST and then the 50hp shuttle shift gear tractor. The 50hp gear tractor loved it and the 60hp HST worked hard. Both tractors accomplished the task, but the HST ate up torque before getting to the axles. I bought the 50hp shuttle shift and have never regretted the choice.

Welcome to TBN Wally. Which Bahama are you from?

 

[Grumpa Wally]

Welcome to TBN Wally. Which Bahama are you from?

Thank you. I'm in beautiful Bahama, NC. I was a little hesitant to comment because some non Kubota owners take a hit commenting on the Kubota forum. I am now looking to go up a few hp and am going to test a M7060HD in the next couple weeks when the nearest Kubota dealer in Loiusburg gets the crated tractor put together.

 

[ovrszd]

Thank you. I'm in beautiful Bahama, NC. I was a little hesitant to comment because some non Kubota owners take a hit commenting on the Kubota forum. I am now looking to go up a few hp and am going to test a M7060HD in the next couple weeks when the nearest Kubota dealer in Loiusburg gets the crated tractor put together.

Never hesitate to comment. They'll get over it!!!!

When I come on the site I use the "My Home" button at the top of the page first. This shows every thread that's had activity since I posted on it last.

Second stop is the "Today's Posts" or "New Posts". These will list threads that have had activity since you were last here.

I rarely pay any attention to which forum a thread is in. If the title interests me I view it and comment if so inclined. Once in awhile I'll get some pushback because I don't own the color of paint being discussed but it's rare.

In the case of this discussion, color is irrelevant.

Here's a recent thread active now concerning the M7060. Lot of information that might be useful and a great place to ask any questions.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng/386513-my-m7060-purchase-usage-thread.html

 

[Turbys_1700]

Thank you. I'm in beautiful Bahama, NC. I was a little hesitant to comment because some non Kubota owners take a hit commenting on the Kubota forum. I am now looking to go up a few hp and am going to test a M7060HD in the next couple weeks when the nearest Kubota dealer in Loiusburg gets the crated tractor put together.

Welcome to the forums from another North Carolinian...

 

[Grumpa Wally]

Welcome to the forums from another North Carolinian...

Thanks. I have learned a lot in the last couple days reading shared experiences from other tractor owners. With gray hair comes the wisdom to cogitate more before making big decisions. There is a wealth of wisdom from others' experiences or, more aptly, the school of hard knocks and scars.

 

[ovrszd]

We won't even hold it against you that you sold Fords......

 

[rScotty]

The old Farmall C is on it's third generation of skilled operators with the original clutch. I think the life of a clutch has more to do with the skill and habits of the operator than anything else.

I'd like to hear more about the CVT or iHMT trannys like the new Yanmars have in them. They sound very intriguing and I wonder if other manufacturers will be following suit.

I agree. I enjoy studying these new transmissions and mentally comparing the advantages and disadvantages of each. It says a lot to me when a about how a manufacturer values his client base when they make an effort to offer the buyer a choice of transmission types.

Both the CVT and iMHT are designed to maximise fuel efficiency (not torque efficiency), as well as computer controllabiity. That makes sense in today's world, but who knows about tomorrows? Also, not everyone puts those things above basic old-fashioned easy serviceability.

My own favorite transmission for durability - if all things are considered - is the shuttle shift/power shift type with internal hydraulically-driven wet clutches couplet to a manual range selection. That type is neither as simple as a straight gear tranny, nor as convenient as a HST. But the manual shuttle/power shift transmission transmits torque as well as a straight gear type, offers many speed & torque ranges, is only slightly more difficult to service than a straight gear transmission, avoids the manual dry clutch wear problem, and is so easy to shift instinctively that computer control isn't necessary.
Plus that type tranny has also been made by so many manufacturers for so many years that it is well understood. I've owned these in the past, but none of my current tractors has this type of tranny.

My own favorite transmission for ease of use - again considering the things we've discussed - is the HST type. Preferably with as many ranges as possible. Durable enough; I've never had to rebuild one of our HSTs.

Hopefully we will continue to have a choice of transmission types. There simply isn't a "best choice" for everyone.
rScotty

 

[ovrszd]

I agree rScotty.

I wonder how many variables are available in a given sized tractor??? For example, how many variations of a 50HP tractor are there on the market?

 

[mike69440]

I like my GST but it slow to shift and can roll back a bit on steep hills.

This transmission could be improved buy going the dual clutch route and paddle type shifty as well as a std. gear selector.
Auto hold on hills would be nice. Take a Que from the auto sector. Nothing wrong with HST+ also.

 

[ericm979]

We have a couple DSG VWs in the family. They roll back on hills too. The newer one has auto hold, the older one requires the driver to use the hand brake.

Many European small trucks and vans have automated manuals- the clutch is computer controlled as is the shifting. You can make manual shifts like on a DSG or let the computer do it. It's like having a manual but with less possibility for clutch abuse. Having only one clutch they are simpler than a DSG but shift slower.

But with a tractor running a mower you have to keep the engine at PTO rpm. An infinitely variable transmission lets you adjust your ground speed without changing engine speed.

I'd like to know how Yanmar's new transmission works but I have not been able to find any technical information.

 

[lpigott]

Both have their places. I love the HST on my lil BX but I would not want it one my 7060 at all. The shuttle is awesome on it. One thing I did not see mentioned in the thread yet was how much noisier the HST is over the shuttle/gear drive tractors, the ones I have used anyway. I have read that with a cab the HST can be amplified too. I would like to ride in a L6060 cab and see how it has. My M7060 is so quiet I can talk to people on the phone through the stereo while working the tractor at high RPMs and a load without missing a beat and they don't even know I am doing that.

 

[crazyal]

I have both shuttle and HST and each has it's place. As most said HST isn't as good for ground engaging tasks. But it can still do it. I do notice when I'm skidding large trees that if I try to go too fast the transmission seams like it has give where as a gear/ shuttle doesn't have this give. That being said I went with HST because you can set the engine RPM for your attachment (mower, snow blower, etc.) and you have an unlimited range of speeds. With anything that has gears you have to choose the right gear to get a speed close to what you want to go at. If mowing on flat ground then it's fine but if on hilly ground where you will be speeding up or slowing down gear/ shuttle looses out to HST (just like HST looses out on a flat field plowing).

As for longevity of HST. There's more than 100,000 threads here by people who own mostly HST transmissions. Yet finding a failure or someone complaining because theirs has worn out is extremely rare. If HST loosing power was an issue there would be plenty of people wanting to warn others. Buy the transmission you think will best suit most of your tasks. Just remember this. The only real place gear/ shuttle wins out is if the ground engagement you are doing is right at the maximum the tractor can perform. If it's a task that the tractor can easily do, like grading a driveway then the HST will actually be easier because you can change speeds and direction easier. If it's a task that can be done at a slower speed or if traction is going to be the biggest issue then HST isn't going to be an issue.