Old House Plumbing Problem.

[N80]

My house is 88 years old and has a pretty constant flow of 88 year old house problems. The current one is that the hot water valve is leaking in the downstairs shower. This is essentially the guest bathroom. Our master bathroom is a five year old addition up stairs but the other upstairs bathroom is currently totally nonfunctional since the cast iron drain pipe cracked deep in the walls and that whole bathroom is going to have to be re-done...tile, plumbing, sheetrock, everything. So, simply shutting off the water to the downstairs bathroom isn't an option.

Anyway, no matter how tight I turn the knob there is still a brisk drip. This shower has individual valves for hot and cold for the shower and individual hot and cold for the tub. A picture of the exterior is included below and a picture of the access panel in the back is shown also. Ideally, I'd like to do this myself. I have the tools to work in PEX and copper and have done both. I would like not to have to replace tile, etc.

Any thoughts on a cheap easy solution would be fine. (And I'm basing this question on the assumption that the cartridge or internals to these 88 year old valves are no longer available.







(Not sure why these pics are sideways or what to do about it).

 

[/pine]

You should be able to remove the knob and then the trim escutcheon... then remove the stem the seat and washer should be replaceable...you will need a seat wrench...

here are some relative pics: typical valve seat and washer - Google Search

 

[N80]

You should be able to remove the knob and then the trim escutcheon... then remove the stem the seat and washer should be replaceable...you will need a seat wrench...

here are some relative pics: typical valve seat and washer - Google Search

Thanks. Are you saying the seat and the washer would have to be replaced? I'm assume finding the proper washer would be fairly easy. If it is intact I can take it to a plumbing supply and match it up or measure it and get it from McMaster-Carr. Not sure if I'd be able to find the seat itself.

I see how to remove the handle and the escutcheon. No problem there. But, I'll have to turn water off to the whole house. No problem there either since there is a valve in the basement. But, I'm worried that if I mess up the washer or whatever else I wouldn't be able to turn the water back on until I got the whole job completed. The hot water supply line running to the shower is PEX and easily accessible in the basement so I might put a valve there so I can just shut off that one supply in case I screw something up.

Side note on McMaster-Carr. I placed an order (unrelated to this) from them last night at about 6:00 pm. It arrived today at 4:00 pm. Amazing!

 

[/pine]

Thanks. Are you saying the seat and the washer would have to be replaced? I'm assume finding the proper washer would be fairly easy. If it is intact I can take it to a plumbing supply and match it up or measure it and get it from McMaster-Carr. Not sure if I'd be able to find the seat itself.

I see how to remove the handle and the escutcheon. No problem there. But, I'll have to turn water off to the whole house. No problem there either since there is a valve in the basement. But, I'm worried that if I mess up the washer or whatever else I wouldn't be able to turn the water back on until I got the whole job completed. The hot water supply line running to the shower is PEX and easily accessible in the basement so I might put a valve there so I can just shut off that one supply in case I screw something up.

Side note on McMaster-Carr. I placed an order (unrelated to this) from them last night at about 6:00 pm. It arrived today at 4:00 pm. Amazing!

Generally the washer is under a screw at the internal end of the stem...the seat is usually threaded into the valve body (some seats are permanent and have to be honed/ground...special tool for this) replaceable seats usually have either a square or octagon shape hole...a seat wrench usually has one on one end the other on the other tang...they are only a few bucks...

one issue can be the screw holding the washer can break off in the stem...some complete new stems can be found on plumbing repair shelves at hardware and box stores etc...

Sometimes just replacing the washer is all that is required (depends on how worn the seat is)...

Any idea of the brand name on the set? "American Standard" for instance?

Putting a valve on the water heater is good idea anyway IMO...

 

[RNeumann]

Pine is correct. The seat and washer are replacement items. Your fear is unfounded. You would be more likely to have issue replacing the valve then just the seats.
Worst case you could reface the chipped seat and you would slow the leak with no new parts. A seat refacing tool is fairly common and works in a pinch.
Superior Tool Faucet Reseater Kit 3795 | Zoro.com

 

[laurencen]

there should be a washer in there you can replace, if the seat is worn or corroded there is a rose tool that will reface the seat, you can make a crued one time one out of wooden dowel that fits the hole and glue emery cloth on the end and work it by hand back and forth until its flat

 

[ustmd]

You are getting good advice from everyone. Just as a heads up, if you have hard water, be prepared for a lot of mineral build up that may complicate getting the seat out.

Be patient. While this is a simple repair, it could go south in a heartbeat and you are installing new faucets.

 

[ultrarunner]

I maintain a lot of 1920's plumbing and it is a testament to just how well made American Plumbing lasts.

Good news is really everything from this era is available...

Coming in from behind is the perfect way should you need to retro-fit.

I've had professional plumbers want to charge $700 to replace a shower set... I was away that week and sent out a plumber and that was a mistake... he said that length stem was no longer available and he as right... I cut silver-soldered new stems on to existing... that was 15 years ago and no problem since... $700 vs. $12 plus a couple hours of my time.

 

[N80]

You are getting good advice from everyone. Just as a heads up, if you have hard water, be prepared for a lot of mineral build up that may complicate getting the seat out.

Be patient. While this is a simple repair, it could go south in a heartbeat and you are installing new faucets.

Thanks guys. I will definitely put a shut off valve in the basement in case things go wrong. That way I'll have plenty of time to work out the details. If I had to replace all of the faucets that would not be hard using a full PEX assembly and I can do that with no problem (I've done it before). The problem is that my wife likes the way the old hardware looks, particularly the porcelain escutcheons. So I'll try replacing the washer and seat. If that fails I'll just replace everything (one of the tub valves has to be really tightened in order not to leak) and just try to find period appropriate escutcheons and knobs.

 

[frugalangler]

Good news is really everything from this era is available...

Worst case you may need to replace the stem because the screw is frozen and breaks when removal is attempted, but generally resurfacing will take care of your problem.

 

[N80]

I think I actually have a faucet seat resurfacing tool somewhere. I don't know why. Must have been my Dad's. I didn't realize what it was but I never throw anything away.

 

[plowhog]

Be patient. While this is a simple repair, it could go south in a heartbeat ...

That is the voice of experience of someone who has worked with old plumbing. Be very, very patient working those valves out and you might be rewarded with a simple fix.

 

[EddieWalker]

Good advice. I have nothing to offer other then it can sometimes be challenging to find the right sized washer. The box stores sell kits with a variety of sizes, but there are so many out there that they might not have it. I would go there first, but realize that you still might need to go to a plumbing supply house, and they might tell you that they have to order it and it will be a few days.

 

[ultrarunner]

Any old time plumbing supply houses in your area?

Lot of what I need simply isn't off the shelf anymore at the National retailers.

The good news is these fixtures were designed to be "Renewed" as one of the hundred year old boxes says...as long as the threads are good.

I cringe when neighbors of my 1920's home showed me all the new faucets they picked up cheap... all plastic, made in China... on the bright side I get spare parts free!!!

 

[kenmac]

There is a place where I can go to get old plumbing parts to repair older leaking fixtures.
There is an old ACE Hardware in town that has been there for about 80 yrs ? It has been handed down to others in the family over the yrs. they kept all the old plumbing parts. You just have to take old part with you, and he'll match it up for ya.

If you have locally owned hardware store in your area, I would go there and get them to help you match up any old fixture parts

 

[MossRoad]

Adding a shutoff valve in the PEX before you dig into the faucet is the smartest way to go, for sure. It buys you security and time should you need a couple days to find a part. Our house only had a few shut offs in it when we bought it, and they were frozen. Those were some of the first tasks I did, adding shut offs.

 

[ultrarunner]

^^^Smart man... adding some full port quarter turn ball valves is cheap insurance...

One of the builders around here puts them in for the showers he installs... cuts and access behind the valve which is usually in a closet and then adds a metal access door... hot and cold have shut offs... all fixtures in the homes he builds can be shut off individually...

 

[MossRoad]

1/4 turn ball valves are the best choice as you mentioned. How many folks here on TBN have been in a house 15-20 years and then had to try and shut off the toilet with that little oval handled multi-turn valve? It never works and is always frozen! :laughing:

 

[kenmac]

I started adding those 1/4 turn stops to plumbing jobs when they first came out.

 

[frugalangler]

I started adding those 1/4 turn stops to plumbing jobs when they first came out.

I may be redneck, but even before they were available in same style as chrome multi-turn, I'd adapter in a ball valve like for inline pipe, not pretty but I KNEW it would work when needed, and who looks under toilets and vanities anyway, if you do you're likely to find a whole lot worse than an ugly pipe ball valve!